4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

[Nila Aella]

RBBM: Ah, so maybe his lawyer when in PA (forgotten his name) was present during that interview do you think? MOO

Yes, I think this is referring to at the time of his arrest when J. Labar was representing him. MOO

Lawyer: Bryan Kohberger Initially Agreed To Talk to Police

“He’s calm. He’s fully aware. It’s obvious he’s very intelligent…He already has a Master’s,” said Jason LaBar, chief public defender for Monroe County

lawandcrime.com

ETA link

 

[maconrich]

Seeing that AT was appointed his attorney between 30 Dec or Jan 3. Surely Labar or AT would have been present when he spoke to LE? The delay in releasing all of the items listed doesn't make sense to me, but he seemed to have been appointed an attorney right away, although maybe there was a bit of a delay before Labar was appointed?
Edited: ok the link @Nila Aella provided does say he "initially waived his right to counsel and agreed to speak with law enforcement following his arrest — but then, he requested an attorney, according to the public defender representing him in Pennsylvania." So the detective could have spoken to him then?

 

[NCWatcher]

No, I didn't suggest BK "intentionally bled" onto his mattress cover or uncased pillow.

I just cited what was in the results of testing that were published in the last day and posted about on this thread, that those were the only two stains of several (red or reddish brown or pink in one case) stains LE tested that were positive for blood, and they could have come from him and leaked onto his bedding for any number of reasons (he had wounds, a nosebleed, a cut).

LE hasn't stated whose blood was on his mattress cover or uncased pillow.

In my replies to OP asking about the other red or reddish brown stains that were not tested as positive for blood, and what they might be from, I speculated and said IMO, they could have been stains from iodine or something similarly colored that left stains in some places that could look like blood.

If you read about all the stains that LE sampled that were not blood that are in the publsihed results and have been posted about many times in the last day, there were several, e.g., one on a light switch, one on a pizza wheel, a few on cleaning product containers, one next to the shower rod, etc.

We don't know what the several non blood stains were from, or whether LE did further testing to determine what they were.

To be clear, I did speculate in one post on this topic in reply to OPs wondering about the several stains that may have looked like blood but weren't tested as positive and what that could be about, which came up alot after the results were published in the last day, that having a bunch of non blood stains around the apartment that LE was interested enough to test, but only 2 samples were blood, could serve to make it look like "there's nothing to see here".

MOO

I'm sorry if I misunderstood. You had written "to have visible reddish brown stains on several surfaces that were not blood and the only blood on his bedding (and presumably his), it looks like a ruse to me, set up for appearances sake."

I'm still confused about which parts were supposed to be a ruse and how that ruse would have been set up. The effect of testing a large number of stains and finding blood only on the bedding could have led people to think there's nothing to see-- because there wasn't anything to see. But if it's a ruse, it seems that would have to involve planting of non-blood spots and/or planting of those few likely innocuous blood spots.
JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Seeing that AT was appointed his attorney between 30 Dec or Jan 3. Surely Labar or AT would have been present when he spoke to LE? The delay in releasing all of the items listed doesn't make sense to me, but he seemed to have been appointed an attorney right away, although maybe there was a bit of a delay before Labar was appointed?
Edited: ok the link @Nila Aella provided does say he "initially waived his right to counsel and agreed to speak with law enforcement following his arrest — but then, he requested an attorney, according to the public defender representing him in Pennsylvania." So the detective could have spoken to him then?

Bryan Kohberger, the man charged with murdering four University of Idaho students, initially waived his right to counsel and agreed to speak with law enforcement following his arrest — but then, he requested an attorney, according to the public defender representing him in Pennsylvania

LaBar told Law&Crime’s Angenette Levy that Kohberger spoke with law enforcement for five to 15 minutes at the Pennsylvania State Police barracks following his arrest early last Friday morning.

Initially, Kohberger waived his Miranda rights but then requested an attorney. LaBar said Kohberger told him that police asked his client if he understood what was going on, and he responded by saying something to the effect of “yes, certainly I’m aware of what’s going on. I’m 10 miles away from this.” Then, LaBar said, Kohberger invoked his right to counsel and asked for an attorney.

Lawyer: Bryan Kohberger Initially Agreed To Talk to Police

“He’s calm. He’s fully aware. It’s obvious he’s very intelligent…He already has a Master’s,” said Jason LaBar, chief public defender for Monroe County

lawandcrime.com

edit: Sry didn't see your edit maconrich: I'm thinking that it was Det Payne in PA b/c of the motion to compel that was just released requesting the interrogation by Det Payne. MOO

 

[maconrich]

So it's likely that Det. Payne was in PA when BK was arrested and managed to ask a few questions before BK invoked his right to an attorney? (Guessing so MOO)

Edited to add: and I didn't see yours before I typed this one.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes, that really surprised me. I thought he was read his rights in PA. Payne must have met and interviewed/spoke to him Idaho, that's my best guess, but why would that have occurred without a member of his legal team in attendance?? MOO

IIRC, BK spoke very, very briefly (a few sentences) with LE when arrested.
MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Seeing that AT was appointed his attorney between 30 Dec or Jan 3. Surely Labar or AT would have been present when he spoke to LE? The delay in releasing all of the items listed doesn't make sense to me, but he seemed to have been appointed an attorney right away, although maybe there was a bit of a delay before Labar was appointed?
Edited: ok the link @Nila Aella provided does say he "initially waived his right to counsel and agreed to speak with law enforcement following his arrest — but then, he requested an attorney, according to the public defender representing him in Pennsylvania." So the detective could have spoken to him then?

The police are sure going to talk to BK as much as possible if he waived his right to an attorney. Once he requested an attorney, all questioning stops.

Curious what BK had to say in the beginning?

MOO

 

[maconrich]

The police are sure going to talk to BK as much as possible if he waived his right to an attorney. Once he requested an attorney, all questioning stops.

Curious what BK had to say in the beginning?

MOO

Yes, absolutely. And I'm curious too. Also curious as to why the state hasn't released the other information that was requested by the defense. Cutting it a bit too close to discovery.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes, absolutely. And I'm curious too. Also curious as to why the state hasn't released the other information that was requested by the defense. Cutting it a bit too close to discovery.

I'm sure the Defense will get all of their info. The hearing has been pushed back to the end of June now, but I'm surprised they haven't gotten the majority yet.

The Judge will rule on this motion by the Defense quickly, so I expect it will compel the DA's office to move. They were just granted additional help (small office, short on staff) so perhaps that will speed things up as well.

MOO

 

[DizzyB]

A cheapo $50 navigation device would have been a smarter solution (again, BK likely has rudimentary knowledge of how this stuff works). No cellular needed. 100% GPS. Disposable. Only evidence of his purchase to contend with.

I would have to explain what a Garmin device/GPS is to my twenty-somethings.

I agree with this idea - that he may have gone to the house with zero intention to murder anyone, just creep around the house

<modsnip - LE said MONTHS ago it was unrelated. Also, if you can't link, don't mention it> then maybe he was going to try and lure the dog out and do same?

Many threads ago, I posted about a friend that had a person who would watch her sleep. Maybe he had been there on multiple occasions, even with his knife that he unsheathed as part of a fantasy. My post-
“ I had a friend who had a sleep watcher. Stranger, a young guy who lived down the street. When he was caught, he confessed that he had been in her room watching her sleep many times. He would climb up her parent’s deck and open the sliding glass door, walk through the hall past her parents’ bedroom and into her room. Would leave the same way. She would wake up many nights and feel someone had touched her, or was there. But she dismissed it, thinking it was a dream or a shadow. Then one night she focused on a shadow that she thought was her clothes on the chair. And she heard him breathe. Screamed, he jumped and ran out of the house, jumped off the deck and down the street. They got him through fingerprints and a canvas. “

 

[r3d-ros3]

QUOTE

"It wasn't reasonable to take his phone with him, though. I wonder why that was part of his script, I really do."

This question of his phone is a real head scratcher. I can think of only 2 reasons he would bring his phone.

1.) Ignorance. He thought turning it off was enough, didn't understand all the implications of bringing it.

2.) He actually did NOT plan to commit murder that night. Maybe did not plan to commit murder at all. Not planning a crime means it was safe to take the phone.

I'm late to respond to this (and I hope it doesn't derail the current discussion too much), but I was glad to see your comment @Cool Cats. My personally theory aligns with number 1.

He brought his phone, but it was turned off during the commission of the crime. He turned it BACK ON, maybe to navigate home, and also when returning to the area that morning (The PCA's language surrounding the final ping on November 13th is extremely strange to me -- it suggests they can't be sure that it was a legitimate ping). IMO, he didn't think he would be on LE's radar and would not be linked to the crime scene unless he could be placed there via cellular data. He turned off his phone to exclude himself from the blanket investigation of cell phone use / pinging in the area during the murders. It worked (his phone was turned off, and didn't show up in that initial report), but his Elantra eventually tied him to the scene, and his frequent interactions with LE prior to the crime supplied them with his cell phone number (which he gave a cop during a traffic stop. Still wild to me).

All IMO. I also think number 2 should seriously be considered: he might have just been creeping / stalking that night (like other nights, maybe) and saw an opportunity or he never planned for a quadruple homicide to begin with. I don't personally agree with this theory, but I know others have wondered if he entered the home intending to commit some other crime and things escalated.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm late to respond to this (and I hope it doesn't derail the current discussion too much), but I was glad to see your comment @Cool Cats. My personally theory aligns with number 1.

He brought his phone, but it was turned off during the commission of the crime. He turned it BACK ON, maybe to navigate home, and also when returning to the area that morning (The PCA's language surrounding the final ping on November 13th is extremely strange to me -- it suggests they can't be sure that it was a legitimate ping). IMO, he didn't think he would be on LE's radar and would not be linked to the crime scene unless he could be placed there via cellular data. He turned off his phone to exclude himself from the blanket investigation of cell phone use / pinging in the area during the murders. It worked (his phone was turned off, and didn't show up in that initial report), but his Elantra eventually tied him to the scene, and his frequent interactions with LE prior to the crime supplied them with his cell phone number (which he gave a cop during a traffic stop. Still wild to me).

All IMO. I also think number 2 should seriously be considered: he might have just been creeping / stalking that night (like other nights, maybe) and saw an opportunity or he never planned for a quadruple homicide to begin with. I don't personally agree with this theory, but I know others have wondered if he entered the home intending to commit some other crime and things escalated.

Respectfully BBM
I don't think BK would have needed his phone to navigate his way back home, sounds like he had made the trip from WSU to King Rd many times prior. I do think he had a preplanned place to dump the knife and bloody clothes, but surely he wouldn't be so stupid as to map it? IDK

Maybe he was aware of the fact that now specialists look at the users history of their phones, especially during the times before and after the crime. Was it unusual for BK to turn his phone off previously? If his normal cell activity changes substantially during that period of time, it tells me something.

JMO

 

[maconrich]

Respectfully BBM
I don't think BK would have needed his phone to navigate his way back home, sounds like he had made the trip from WSU to King Rd many times prior. I do think he had a preplanned place to dump the knife and bloody clothes, but surely he wouldn't be so stupid as to map it? IDK

Maybe he was aware of the fact that now specialists look at the users history of their phones, especially during the times before and after the crime. Was it unusual for BK to turn his phone off previously? If his normal cell activity changes substantially during that period of time, it tells me something.

JMO

I agree with you in that I think the murderer traveled those roads many times in advance - at least enough to know them and to know how to get where he wanted to go. And most likely he knew exactly where he wanted to dispose of anything he needed to get rid of. No matter if he was aware of what specialists look at (although he most likely did have a decent idea). Without factoring those things in, his plan couldn't have been complete. I believe he had a beginning, middle and ending planned out ahead of time. But it is possible he turned his phone off previously or even regularly - or let the battery run out (I can see the battery being a half way normal issue for assorted reasons). Good points though. All MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

Respectfully BBM
I don't think BK would have needed his phone to navigate his way back home, sounds like he had made the trip from WSU to King Rd many times prior. I do think he had a preplanned place to dump the knife and bloody clothes, but surely he wouldn't be so stupid as to map it? IDK

Maybe he was aware of the fact that now specialists look at the users history of their phones, especially during the times before and after the crime. Was it unusual for BK to turn his phone off previously? If his normal cell activity changes substantially during that period of time, it tells me something.

JMO

But he took an unusual route from Moscow back to Pullman (1.5 hours instead of the usual 15 minutes). The second time he went to Moscow that day, he took almost the same route, going way out of his way, south of Moscow and to an area next to the Snake River.

I wonder if he preplanned a particular place for the knife (and all the other things he had to get rid of - such as his shoes, clothes, any protection he put on the car's seat). If he did preplan it, maybe he did need a map to get back to it? Because he surely made a strange decision to turn his phone back on. Maybe he thought he had it memorized.

OTOH, the PCA mentions a couple of stops over those two trips that are known only because of his phone! If he had planned not to turn his phone on, he violated his Script Theory!

I don't think we know yet what his usual cell phone patterns where, but that night, he ought to have left it off, IMO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

The Unlikely Cast of Characters Who Led to Bryan Kohberger's Arrest

In Part IV of Howard Blum's investigation into the Idaho student murders, he looks at the people who helped connect the dots.

airmail.news

Interesting - note that these are only excerpts. The article is much longer and there are also links to articles 1-3.

...With the click of a few computer keys, the program searches through a staggering inventory of cars until it ultimately, according to the confident government description, “identifies the make and model of the vehicle in a still image.”

And it worked like a charm on the handful of videos the Moscow cops had gathered. Or more precisely, three charms. The F.B.I. forensic examiner first deduced that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 2011–13 Hyundai Elantra. Then, “upon further review,” to use the chagrined phrase of the candid Idaho authorities, he decided the mysterious Hyundai might very well be a 2011–16 vehicle. And when he pored over the image of a car “consistent with” the Hyundai near the murder scene that was caught on camera, not long after the killings, racing toward Pullman, Washington, he deduced that it was a 2014–16 Hyundai. That is, he cast a pretty broad net. And he cast it three times to boot.

Still, when it turned out that Bryan Kohberger owned a 2015 white Hyundai Elantra, it was right in the ballpark of the F.B.I.’s analysis of the make and model of Suspect Vehicle 1. But it was a Superdome-sized ballpark; it had been stretched to cover five full years of cars. A smart defense attorney could drive a fleet of Hyundais through a speculative gap that wide...

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Re the cell phone data - note that these are only excerpts. The article is much longer and there are also links to articles 1-3.

The Unlikely Cast of Characters Who Led to Bryan Kohberger's Arrest

In Part IV of Howard Blum's investigation into the Idaho student murders, he looks at the people who helped connect the dots.

airmail.news

What went (deliberately?) unmentioned when the police shared their handiwork with the public was that cell-phone towers cast a wide net. Their range can be as broad as 14 miles—and in a cozy town like Moscow, that takes in a lot of territory. It’s more wishful thinking than solid detective work to put Kohberger’s phone at a precise spot at a certain time. Being in the vicinity is not the same as being at an exact address. Just ask anyone whose Amazon delivery wound up at a neighbor’s. Or any of the combative defense attorneys who’ve succeeded in convincing courts to question the reliability and accuracy of the F.B.I.’s attempts to map the “signal footprints” cast by cell towers.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

the DNA and surprised it is so little. - note that these are only excerpts. The article is much longer and there are also links to articles 1-3.

The Unlikely Cast of Characters Who Led to Bryan Kohberger's Arrest

In Part IV of Howard Blum's investigation into the Idaho student murders, he looks at the people who helped connect the dots.

airmail.news

The consumer DNA kits that are sold in your local CVS need about 750 to 1,000 nanograms to find out all they need to know about you. And that’s not much. It’s smaller than a speck of floating dust, and a whole lot less substantial. A single nanogram is as heavy as a breeze; it weighs a few trillionths of a pound. There’s nothing to it.

But crime scenes often contain a whole lot less DNA than that. The forensic teams will routinely wind up with only 100 or so nanograms of DNA. Yet scientists can nevertheless work their magic and use even this microscopic amount of genetic evidence to nail the criminal.

The problem, however, was that the DNA on the knife sheath, authorities would concede on background, was less than one hundred nanograms. A whole lot less. A mere fraction, in fact, of a single nanogram. Nothing more than just a handful of microscopic-sized cells. In total, according to knowledgeable sources, about 20 cells. Maybe, they whispered, even fewer. The DNA sample was as small as a fragment of a speck balanced on the head of a tiny pin...

It no longer mattered that they had previously drawn a blank trying to make a link between the DNA on the knife-sheath button and Bryan Kohberger. They had succeeded in doing the next best thing—and they were convinced that was good enough.

They had matched the speck of DNA recovered from the murder house to the DNA embedded in the trash of Michael Kohberger, the suspect’s father. And while moralists might find biblical authority for the argument that the father was not responsible for his son’s alleged sins, the more practical geneticists had found an indisputable link: “At least 99.9998% of the male population would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of being the suspect’s biological father.” Q.E.D.: the DNA on the knife-sheath button belonged, the Idaho authorities asserted, to Michael Kohberger’s son, Bryan.

 

[Boxer]

The Unlikely Cast of Characters Who Led to Bryan Kohberger's Arrest

In Part IV of Howard Blum's investigation into the Idaho student murders, he looks at the people who helped connect the dots.

airmail.news

Interesting - note that these are only excerpts. The article is much longer and there are also links to articles 1-3.

...With the click of a few computer keys, the program searches through a staggering inventory of cars until it ultimately, according to the confident government description, “identifies the make and model of the vehicle in a still image.”

And it worked like a charm on the handful of videos the Moscow cops had gathered. Or more precisely, three charms. The F.B.I. forensic examiner first deduced that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 2011–13 Hyundai Elantra. Then, “upon further review,” to use the chagrined phrase of the candid Idaho authorities, he decided the mysterious Hyundai might very well be a 2011–16 vehicle. And when he pored over the image of a car “consistent with” the Hyundai near the murder scene that was caught on camera, not long after the killings, racing toward Pullman, Washington, he deduced that it was a 2014–16 Hyundai. That is, he cast a pretty broad net. And he cast it three times to boot.

Still, when it turned out that Bryan Kohberger owned a 2015 white Hyundai Elantra, it was right in the ballpark of the F.B.I.’s analysis of the make and model of Suspect Vehicle 1. But it was a Superdome-sized ballpark; it had been stretched to cover five full years of cars. A smart defense attorney could drive a fleet of Hyundais through a speculative gap that wide...

The gap is narrowed by how many Elantra's we're headed into Moscow 11/13.

 

[Nila Aella]

The Unlikely Cast of Characters Who Led to Bryan Kohberger's Arrest

In Part IV of Howard Blum's investigation into the Idaho student murders, he looks at the people who helped connect the dots.

airmail.news

Interesting - note that these are only excerpts. The article is much longer and there are also links to articles 1-3.

...With the click of a few computer keys, the program searches through a staggering inventory of cars until it ultimately, according to the confident government description, “identifies the make and model of the vehicle in a still image.”

And it worked like a charm on the handful of videos the Moscow cops had gathered. Or more precisely, three charms. The F.B.I. forensic examiner first deduced that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 2011–13 Hyundai Elantra. Then, “upon further review,” to use the chagrined phrase of the candid Idaho authorities, he decided the mysterious Hyundai might very well be a 2011–16 vehicle. And when he pored over the image of a car “consistent with” the Hyundai near the murder scene that was caught on camera, not long after the killings, racing toward Pullman, Washington, he deduced that it was a 2014–16 Hyundai. That is, he cast a pretty broad net. And he cast it three times to boot.

Still, when it turned out that Bryan Kohberger owned a 2015 white Hyundai Elantra, it was right in the ballpark of the F.B.I.’s analysis of the make and model of Suspect Vehicle 1. But it was a Superdome-sized ballpark; it had been stretched to cover five full years of cars. A smart defense attorney could drive a fleet of Hyundais through a speculative gap that wide...

TY SGH! Some points I found interesting below:

The Unlikely Cast of Characters Who Led to Bryan Kohberger's Arrest

In Part IV of Howard Blum's investigation into the Idaho student murders, he looks at the people who helped connect the dots.

airmail.news

....(There never was a Suspect Vehicle 2, or, for that matter, 3.) Only they had a problem with the quality of the images. They were flickering, recorded in varying light. The pixels had captured a fast-moving white car—but that was about all the local cops could say for sure.

With the click of a few computer keys, the program searches through a staggering inventory of cars until it ultimately, according to the confident government description, “identifies the make and model of the vehicle in a still image.”

And it worked like a charm on the handful of videos the Moscow cops had gathered. Or more precisely, three charms. The F.B.I. forensic examiner first deduced that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 2011–13 Hyundai Elantra. Then, “upon further review,” to use the chagrined phrase of the candid Idaho authorities, he decided the mysterious Hyundai might very well be a 2011–16 vehicle.

...the analysts still couldn’t come up with a legible shot of the license plate. They couldn’t even offer a guess. They simply had no idea.

Even more vexing, there wasn’t a single legible image of the driver. The bureau wizards tried all sorts of photographic tricks to pull a face from the blur. In the end, however, the best they could decipher was a dark, murky shadow hovering over the steering wheel.

The problem, however, was that the DNA on the knife sheath, authorities would concede on background, was less than one hundred nanograms. A whole lot less. A mere fraction, in fact, of a single nanogram. Nothing more than just a handful of microscopic-sized cells. In total, according to knowledgeable sources, about 20 cells. Maybe, they whispered, even fewer.

 

[Nila Aella]

According to this, PA garbage traveled by Fed Ex to Othram:

The Unlikely Cast of Characters Who Led to Bryan Kohberger's Arrest

In Part IV of Howard Blum's investigation into the Idaho student murders, he looks at the people who helped connect the dots.

airmail.news

Later that same day a special FedEx package deceptively marked “Medical Material” made its way to the Othram lab. The scientists quickly went to work. They extracted promising material from the trash they’d received.