4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[arielilane]

Trying to understand why a grand jury all of a sudden, as I thought this case was moving along. moo

Rule 6. Formation of the Grand Jury | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

 

[Cool Cats]

Of course you don't. It just seemed that you were you saying that because you wanted that to be the case, not based upon evidence. I think that the actions show that he prosecution had serious concerns about proceeding to a preliminary hearing and you have to ask yourself why. They are buying themselves time. People complain about Defenses stalling cases, but I think that is what the prosecution is doing here. They were going to have to produce evidence at that PH that they don't have yet.

The State didn't stall the Defense did. The State was ready to have the Preliminary Hearing and the Defense said they were not ready and pushed it back 6 months.

But prosecutors undercut this stall tactic - procedural maneuver - by seeking a Grand Jury Indictment.

Now the prosecution won't be forced to do a mini trial in court which would be

1.) Very helpful to the defense
2.) Reveal some of the prosecution trial strategy
3.) Make pubic sensitive material
4.) Give the Defense an opportunity to get their narrative out to prospective jurors, circumventing the gag order
5.) Be stressful for any non LE witnesses called to testify as has been seen already.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Trying to understand why a grand jury all of a sudden, as I thought this case was moving along. moo

Rule 6. Formation of the Grand Jury | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

The Grand Jury indictment is moving the Case along. Defense was stalling. Can now get Bryan to finally make his plea Monday. Don't have to wait until at least July for his plea.

2 Cents

 

[10ofRods]

To my knowledge, LE has not confirmed the id of the photo. JMO

No, but News Nation is allowed here. The evidence was found in PA, I assume LE there is cooperating with it making statements but individuals could still drop a word to a reporter, off the record. No legal penalty that I know of.

 

[arielilane]

The Grand Jury indictment is moving the Case along. Defense was stalling. Can now get Bryan to finally make his plea Monday. Don't have to wait until at least July for his plea.

2 Cents

Really? Sorry, but when I hear Grand Jury, I am having a flashback of Ramsey case. Different situation, no comparison. moo

 

[PrairieWind]

No.

As I posted earlier, there are multiple reasons the Dad thought also this was the best option.

As @BUF commented earlier the superseding indictment means the accused quadruple murderer will not have a chance to attack the evidence used to arrest him at a preliminary hearing that had been scheduled.

But, most importantly it also spares the two surviving housemates and other potential witnesses from having to testify under cross-examination prior to trial.

I am a bit perplexed. I won't even address the Dad issue.
But you say that the Defendant wont have the opportunity to attack the evidence like that is a good thing? If the evidence can't hold up now it certainly wont at trial. This is why we have preliminary hearings. I just routinely stunned by comments like this.
The two survivors have been through a horrible ordeal. But at least the one had avoided PH testimony entirely. But regardless, if this case goes to trial, and I think there is a good chance it will, those girls are going to have to testify. And there may be some stuff that comes out that is uncomfortable for them. But before we sent a man to death row or life in prison, we have to hear the facts.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

The "State's Response to Defendant's Motion To Compel Discovery" only references 1 Idaho State Police (ISP) report that hasn't come in yet, which out of all the materials they have provided, seems like it's miniscule, or a molehill amongst a mountain of information, although it's unknown what the lab results are that are included in that report or their significance. And they promise to be forthcoming with that data and have made specific inquiries about all ISP reports to the lab, IMO:

"COMES NOW the State of Idaho, by and through the Latah County Prosecuting Attorney, and submits the following response to the “Motion to Compel Discovery” filed by the Defendant on May 4, 2023.

By way of background, as of the date of this response the State has provided the following discovery to the Defendant:

1. Approximately 10,000 pages of reports and other written materials;

2. Approximately 10,200 photographs;

3. Approximately 9,200 tips; and

4. Approximately 51 terabytes of audio/video media and digital materials.

...

Regarding the Defendant's request labeled "2.a.", in addition to the above response, the State has inquired of the Defense for clarification on ISP lab reports by number since there is a question about some duplicate numbering of the initial lab reports. ISP lab reports are separately numbered by forensic biology, DNA, prints, and forensic field services. The State has already been able to advise Defense counsel that there is an ISP lab report 25 which has been discovered, and there is another ISP lab report 11 which is pending review and approval at the lab. To assist the parties, the State has initiated specific inquiries about the status of all ISP lab reports and will make discovery to Defense as appropriate."

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051223 States Response to Defendants Motion to Compel Discovery.pdf

ETA: Something about the "COMES NOW" always throws me, though I'm sure there's a valid historical reason for it

 

[arielilane]

"It's interesting that the prosecution took this route."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658895448394940417

BREAKING: A grand jury has indicted #BryanKohberger for the November 2022 murders of four University of Idaho students. The accused killer was scheduled to appear in court for a preliminary hearing in June but the indictment forced a change of plans.

https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetwork

 

[maconrich]

I'm confused yet again. After re-watching BK's first appearance in ID court (5 Jan) the judge states that he has the right to a preliminary hearing. The PA and DA agreed to a court hearing to determine when PH would be held. That hearing was set for 12 Jan and BK waived his right to a speedy PH, with both sides agreeing the PH would begin on 26 June (with the Judge setting aside 26-30 for the hearing). So if BK had the right to a PH, how did they manage to eliminate that right?
BBM

Link to article / video from 5 Jan

WATCH: Bryan Kohberger, accused of killing four U of I students, hears murder charges read in court - East Idaho News

LATAH COUNTY (Idaho Statesman) — Quadruple homicide suspect Bryan Kohberger nodded along in a Latah County courtroom Thursday morning as a judge read the five charges against him: four counts of murder in the first degree and a felony burglary charge in the killing of four University of Idaho...

www.eastidahonews.com

Link to article where date is set for PH

Idaho murders: Judge delays suspect Bryan Kohberger's preliminary hearing until June at defense's request

University of Idaho quadruple murder suspect Bryan Kohberger returned to court on Thursday. His preliminary hearing is set for June.

abcnews.go.com

Edited to change words

 

[Montecore1]

The prosecutor filed a motion that was granted by the judge to seal the names of the Grand Jury witness. The prosecutor alleges that they have already received complaints from prospective witnesses and the families of threats, harassment and intimidation.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051723%20Motion%20to%20Seal%20Grand%20Jury%20Witnesses.pdf

 

[PrairieWind]

The State didn't stall the Defense did. The State was ready to have the Preliminary Hearing and the Defense said they were not ready and pushed it back 6 months.

But prosecutors undercut this stall tactic - procedural maneuver - by seeking a Grand Jury Indictment.

Now the prosecution won't be forced to do a mini trial in court which would be

1.) Very helpful to the defense
2.) Reveal some of the prosecution trial strategy
3.) Make pubic sensitive material
4.) Give the Defense an opportunity to get their narrative out to prospective jurors, circumventing the gag order
5.) Be stressful for any non LE witnesses called to testify as has been seen already.

2 Cents

The original PH was set in January, but given then allegations and volume of evidence in the PCA, there was no way the Defense could adequately conduct a meaningful PH that fast. The continuation was agreed to by all parties and it was the Court that set the late June date. it is the State that has still been unable to produce evidence now. I don't think BK has waived speedy trial, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them perhaps press for a speedy. In my opinion, my opinion only, the prosecution proceeded with a GJ not to speed up the processes but to avoid a PH. That may be a tactical victory but I can't see how it could be a strategic one. Is it an appeal issue? Perhaps.

 

[arielilane]

New arraignment May 22 @9:00 am MT

 

[isabella88]

I'm confused yet again. After re-watching BK's first appearance in ID court (5 Jan) the judge states that he has the right to a preliminary hearing. The PA and DA agreed to a court hearing to determine when PH would be held. That hearing was set for 12 Jan and BK waived his right to a speedy PH, with both sides agreeing the PH would begin on 26 June (with the Judge setting aside 26-30 for the hearing). So if BK had the right to a PH, how did they manage to eliminate that right?
BBM

I have the same question and asked it earlier but didn't receive an answer. How can the PH be thrown out in favor of having a secret grand jury?

 

[Cool Cats]

The prosecutor filed a motion that was granted by the judge to seal the names of the Grand Jury witness. The prosecutor alleges that they have already received complaints from prospective witnesses and the families of threats, harassment and intimidation.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051723%20Motion%20to%20Seal%20Grand%20Jury%20Witnesses.pdf

Good catch.

Makes clearer the "danger" concern. Although I believe "danger" is a standard term used in a Motion to Seal as I have seen it in other murder defendant's Motions.

2 Cents

 

[maconrich]

I have the same question and asked it earlier but didn't receive an answer. How can the PH be thrown out in favor of having a secret grand jury?

Especially when the judge clearly states that a PH is one of his legal rights.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I have the same question and asked it earlier but didn't receive an answer. How can the PH be thrown out in favor of having a secret grand jury?

IMO, this is how (underlined by me):

"Idaho Criminal Rule 5.1. Preliminary Hearing; Probable Cause Finding; Discharge or Commitment of Defendant; Procedure

(a) Preliminary Hearing. Unless indicted by a grand jury, a defendant charged in a complaint with any felony is entitled to a preliminary hearing. If the defendant waives the preliminary hearing, the magistrate must immediately file a written order in the district court requiring the defendant to answer. If a waiver of preliminary hearing form is used, the waiver form must be the Supreme Court waiver of preliminary hearing form found in Appendix A of these rules. If the defendant does not waive the preliminary hearing, the magistrate must schedule a preliminary hearing within a reasonable time, but in any event not later than 14 days following the defendant's initial appearance if the defendant is in custody and no later than 21 days after the initial appearance if the defendant is not in custody. Time limits in this subsection may be extended with the consent of the defendant and on showing of good cause, taking into account the public interest and prompt disposition of criminal cases. In the absence of consent by the defendant, time limits may be extended only on a showing that extraordinary circumstances exist. Extraordinary circumstances include disqualification of the magistrate by the defendant pursuant to Rule 25."

I.C.R. 5.1. Preliminary Hearing - Probable Cause Hearing - Discharge or Commitment of Defendant - Procedure. | Supreme Court

 

[Balthazar]

It does say MOO at the beginning.

Also, there is that massive amount of evidence that the State turned over to the Defense, plus the State also addressed each of the Defense's evidentiary concerns, the sun of which is "there is no such thing to turn over."

That's a big clue that the Defense has everything. IMO. If you think the State is lying in its court proceedings, I don't know what to say.

So I'd say that barring some incredible malfeasance on the part of the State, the Defense has the evidence (and probably way more than the GJ got, as it would be nearly impossible to play them 50T of audio/video and have this be done already). Now, the Defense has got to do what the State has done - and go over all of it with a fine tooth comb.

How long do you guess that would take? I'm thinking months, actually. I don't see this going to trial any time soon.

IMO.

JMO, I really hope that the Defense has everything and this doesn't turn out to be a situation like the Casey Anthony trial where one incredibly important evidence trail was completely ignored by LE and used by the Defense to create reasonable doubt and other evidence appeared to have been withheld, whether it was intentional or not. Mistakes like that can wreck a trial so easily. I also hope the evidence is fully and completely fleshed out in great detail so the verdict will be clear and undeniable.

The defense has their PI reading the evidence and I'm sure many others. I suspect the trial is going to be 2 to 3 years off at minimum unless something else happens in the meantime. As a means of comparison Casey Anthony was indicted on Oct 14, 2008 and her trial began on May 24, 2011. Lori Vallow was indicted on Feb. 20, 2020 and her trial started April 3, 2023.

 

[arielilane]

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger​

Latah County CR29-22-2805

Case Summary (Updated 05/17/23)

• 05/11/2023 Notice of Remote Hearing
• 05/11/2023 Reply to Mr Kohbergers Objection
• 05/12/2023 States Response
• 05/12/2023 States Response
• 05/16/2023 Order Denying Motion to Reconsider
• 05/16/2023 Indictment (Redacted)
• 05/16/2023 Notice of Hearing Criminal
• 05/16/2023 Order Governing Courthouse and Courtroom Conduct
• 05/17/2023 Motion to Seal Grand Jury Witnesses
• 05/17/2023 Order to Seal Grand Jury Witnesses

 

[isabella88]

Especially when the judge clearly states that a PH is one of his legal rights.

Yes. I'm concerned about any appeal issues. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

The original PH was set in January, but given then allegations and volume of evidence in the PCA, there was no way the Defense could adequately conduct a meaningful PH that fast. The continuation was agreed to by all parties and it was the Court that set the late June date. it is the State that has still been unable to produce evidence now. I don't think BK has waived speedy trial, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them perhaps press for a speedy. In my opinion, my opinion only, the prosecution proceeded with a GJ not to speed up the processes but to avoid a PH. That may be a tactical victory but I can't see how it could be a strategic one. Is it an appeal issue? Perhaps.

Quote

"it is the State that has still been unable to produce evidence now"

According to the prosecution they have given the defense everything required and have been clear that what they didn't turn over doesn't fall under any legal obligation to do so.

2 Cents