4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I'm imagining BK doing a similar conversation with the SWAT team that busted in his bedroom as the cop who nearly ticketed him for traffic violation.

 

[kittythehare]

Just want to point out that this link is for UW, not WSU.

It could be the same/similar for WSU, but they are entirely different universities. HTH

dBM,
wrong state, apologies.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

1. Administrative Suspension to Protect the University Population
   1. The vice president for student affairs (or designee) or the senior vice president for academic affairs (or designee) or the senior vice president for health sciences (or designee) may suspend a student from the University prior to an initial inquiry and hearing before the Student Behavior Committee if such action appears necessary to protect the health or well-being of any member of the University community, any member of the public, or to prevent serious disruption of the academic process. Prior to, contemporaneous with, or immediately after the suspension, the vice president shall give the student written notice of the suspension specifying the alleged misconduct and setting forth briefly the relevant facts and supporting evidence. The vice president shall then provide the student with an opportunity to meet and present the student's views and object to the suspension. This meeting shall take place prior to the suspension taking effect or as soon as possible thereafter. The vice president shall thereafter immediately refer the complaint to the appropriate University administrator for proceedings under the code, and the suspension will be in effect pending a final determination of the matter. The vice president shall notify other University administrators of the suspension as appropriate
   2. 
      
   3. Policy 6-400: Code of Student Rights and Responsibilities (“Student Code”) - Regulations Library - The University of Utah

UU (University of Utah) is a completely different state, so I’m confused!

The reason I think UW & WSU might be very similar is because the WAC (Washington state Administrative Code) & RCW (Revised Code of Washington state) apply statewide. There still might be university-specific requirements/processes for the individual institutions. All MOO

ETA: here’s a WSU specific link that may/may not be helpful — lots of hyperlinks to explore:
Handbook Home | Center for Community Standards at WSU

 

[kittythehare]

UU (University of Utah) is a completely different state, so I’m confused!

The reason I think UW & WSU might be very similar is because the WAC (Washington state Administrative Code) & RCW (Revised Code of Washington state) apply statewide. There still might be university-specific requirements/processes for the individual institutions. All MOO

ETA: here’s a WSU specific link that may/may not be helpful — lots of hyperlinks to explore:
Handbook Home | Center for Community Standards at WSU

Thanks.
Deleted.

 

[10ofRods]

Just want to point out that this link is for UW, not WSU.

It could be the same/similar for WSU, but they are entirely different universities. HTH

Not entirely different. They are both public universities in the State of Washington; both bound by Washington's Ed Code. I work for a public institution in CA, we are *all* bound by the laws of the Ed Code of California (there are legal differences between K-12 and college, but the colleges/universities are regulated by the same laws - they derive their policies and handbooks from the same state laws). The law governing what a Chancellor or a President or a Vice President can do are the same for all six WA state public universities.

It's true that, once upon a time, U of W was considered more prestigious than, say WSU (and you can check university ratings various places to see if that's still true). But once WSU was in the Pac-10 and then the Pac-12, it emerged as a kind of equal to U of W.

U of W and WSU share certain facilities in Seattle and Spokane. WSU would likely not have its own well-ranked med school had U of W not paved the way (and urged standards). There are three med schools in WA - both U of W and WSU have med schools.

They are governed by different managers, yes (Chancellors). And nothing transfers automatically from one to another, but the overall rules (you can look them up) that @Helechawagirl posted are nearly identical. That's because of 1) Washington Ed Code and 2) the fact that they have the same accrediting agency.

That's why several of us are posting about "general university" policies. There are reasons why it would be hard to find much difference (in policy verbiage) between WSU and U of W. People like to point out they are "different" if they are U of W, fans, IME. It has a social and political meaning. U of W has more resources, for sure. But obeys the same overall policies as WSU.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

UU (University of Utah) is a completely different state, so I’m confused!

The reason I think UW & WSU might be very similar is because the WAC (Washington state Administrative Code) & RCW (Revised Code of Washington state) apply statewide. There still might be university-specific requirements/processes for the individual institutions. All MOO

ETA: here’s a WSU specific link that may/may not be helpful — lots of hyperlinks to explore:
Handbook Home | Center for Community Standards at WSU

We are on the same page! Sorry if I made it sound as if I was disagreeing.

Frankly, all public institutions that accept Federal Financial Aid (which, to my knowledge, is all of public institutions in the 50 US states plus DC), have to follow fairly similar rules (via Federal Accreditation). BUT, the statewide higher ed rules for all public colleges are the same throughout the state (and can't deviate too much from Federal standards).

Each university/college (public or not) gets to word its own student handbooks, application forms, etc, as long as they are compliant with state law. Where I work, we are expected to put in 5-10 hours (or more) per week simply verifying that we are in compliance and completing the work on manuals, handbooks, etc (and reporting to the state and feds).

WSU wrote that handbook, itself, in compliance with state and federal law (U of I did the same thing). There will be small differences between them, in wording, but the underlying laws will be ultimately be parallel (IMO).

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm imagining BK doing a similar conversation with the SWAT team that busted in his bedroom as the cop who nearly ticketed him for traffic violation.

Probably. Well, almost certainly, IMO. He seems to have a way of getting into multiple encounters with the law, no matter how trivial some of them seem. I've never had a moving violation - most of us have not. I've never had a SWAT event at my house or workplace, so maybe I'm being judgy about BK - maybe one does talk to SWAT personnel the way one usually talks to traffic cops. I don't really know.

I have to say that I only just listened to that traffic stop about 45 minutes ago.

From what I was reading here and there on the internet, I thought he was going to be a lot more verbose or a tad more belligerent.

He was fairly respectful, although he totally demonstrates lack of understanding of WA traffic laws (is this before he got his new driver's license in WA?? I think so), and he does not seem to be a fast learner - instead, he seems to be someone who wants the police to realize that some of their laws are dumb. Bad look in a traffic stop; props to the LEO who handled it so patiently.

OTOH, maybe the WA traffic stop counts as "flirting" for him? A sustained conversation with a woman?

It's as if he's playing dumb, to prolong the encounter (and he may know that prolonging the encounter diminishes his chances of a major ticket - she tells him she could cite him for three things, but ultimately chooses the minor thing - seatbelt infraction). She is so infinitely patient with him. Or else, they don't have many traffic stops in Pullman, nothing else to go attend to? Is he sussing that out too?

Would be interested in what others saw in that.

ALL speculation.

 

[Boxer]

Probably. Well, almost certainly, IMO. He seems to have a way of getting into multiple encounters with the law, no matter how trivial some of them seem. I've never had a moving violation - most of us have not. I've never had a SWAT event at my house or workplace, so maybe I'm being judgy about BK - maybe one does talk to SWAT personnel the way one usually talks to traffic cops. I don't really know.

I have to say that I only just listened to that traffic stop about 45 minutes ago.

From what I was reading here and there on the internet, I thought he was going to be a lot more verbose or a tad more belligerent.

He was fairly respectful, although he totally demonstrates lack of understanding of WA traffic laws (is this before he got his new driver's license in WA?? I think so), and he does not seem to be a fast learner - instead, he seems to be someone who wants the police to realize that some of their laws are dumb. Bad look in a traffic stop; props to the LEO who handled it so patiently.

OTOH, maybe the WA traffic stop counts as "flirting" for him? A sustained conversation with a woman?

It's as if he's playing dumb, to prolong the encounter (and he may know that prolonging the encounter diminishes his chances of a major ticket - she tells him she could cite him for three things, but ultimately chooses the minor thing - seatbelt infraction). She is so infinitely patient with him. Or else, they don't have many traffic stops in Pullman, nothing else to go attend to? Is he sussing that out too?

Would be interested in what others saw in that.

ALL speculation.

I saw police giving a lesser ticket as a courtesy warning to an out of state driver new to WA traffic laws.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Probably. Well, almost certainly, IMO. He seems to have a way of getting into multiple encounters with the law, no matter how trivial some of them seem. I've never had a moving violation - most of us have not. I've never had a SWAT event at my house or workplace, so maybe I'm being judgy about BK - maybe one does talk to SWAT personnel the way one usually talks to traffic cops. I don't really know.

I have to say that I only just listened to that traffic stop about 45 minutes ago.

From what I was reading here and there on the internet, I thought he was going to be a lot more verbose or a tad more belligerent.

He was fairly respectful, although he totally demonstrates lack of understanding of WA traffic laws (is this before he got his new driver's license in WA?? I think so), and he does not seem to be a fast learner - instead, he seems to be someone who wants the police to realize that some of their laws are dumb. Bad look in a traffic stop; props to the LEO who handled it so patiently.

OTOH, maybe the WA traffic stop counts as "flirting" for him? A sustained conversation with a woman?

It's as if he's playing dumb, to prolong the encounter (and he may know that prolonging the encounter diminishes his chances of a major ticket - she tells him she could cite him for three things, but ultimately chooses the minor thing - seatbelt infraction). She is so infinitely patient with him. Or else, they don't have many traffic stops in Pullman, nothing else to go attend to? Is he sussing that out too?

Would be interested in what others saw in that.

ALL speculation.

Might I suggest muting the audio & just watching after listening/watching the entire stop video? It’s something I find helpful, but I’m weird!

My interpretation was he was arrogant, manipulative, & able to adjust on the fly based on feedback. MOO

Also MOO, but I think he moved here expecting to be a big fish — we see that All. The. Time. in students who move here. Instead, he remained an unimpressive little fish in a larger pond. I don’t think he handled his inability to dazzle very well. All MOO.

 

[Nova]

Of course none of us know what's really going on behind the scenes, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that the prosecution doesn't at least some of the things mentioned in the motion to compel, such as notes from his interrogation, body cam footage of the arrest, and police notes. JMO.

But even if the DA has the info, it isn't discoverable just because the defense asks for it. The prosecutors may be redacting the requested material or drafting an Amended Response explaining why it won't be complying with the request. (To take but one example we have discussed: some items are discoverable ONLY if they are to be used at trial. That decision may not have been made yet.)

Discovery material isn't just photocopied and dropped in the mail. It has to be Bates stamped--a numbering system applied to the pages for future reference--and otherwise prepared before delivery.

No trial attorneys would get any work done if they jumped to comply instantly with every discovery request.

(Yes, I have prepared Responses to Discovery myself even though IANAL.)

 

[Nova]

Losing one's on campus job does not equal "banned from campus." One is basically an HR decision.

The other is a disciplinary matter, taken very seriously, and usually handled by the Office of Student Affairs/Student Services (by a Vice President or Vice Chancellor in charge of some kind of investigatory committee). Where I work, there's a list of faculty volunteers from many departments and the Vice President convenes a committee by choosing faculty NOT from the department who is having the problem with a student. Often, counselors, a psychologist and police may be involved (either as committee members or as people who provide reports and background). I suspect LE was involved in this. Campus police can usually issue a temporary ban from campus, but it takes a process for it to be permanent.

HR sends the dismissal letters, it cannot ban people from campus.

Special committees (that usually include police) ban people from campus.

IMO.

Exactly. Now that I am reminded that the "trespass" ban was issued the exact day BK was arrested, I'm thinking it was probably a response to the charge of mass murder.

Second choice would be the altercations with his professor.

There were some "Hate Speech/Freedom of Speech" issues when I was teaching at an LA university. It took some time to resolve them and IIRC nobody was banned from campus in the meantime. I suspect a "trespass ban" requires some infraction that seems to threaten somebody's physical safety, not just an un-PC word or two.

 

[Nova]

In the history of ever, has there ever been a murder case where the defense didn't file motions, alleging withheld discovery?

Seems pretty standard to me. Defense Motions 101.

Next up motions to quash, motions to exclude, motions to delay, motions to dismiss...

And after that motions to pound the table loudly.

Jmo

Your satire is acute! But it isn't just the defense; the prosecution file motions, too.

 

[al66pine]

Who doesn't ask for an attorney immediately after being arrested a middle of the night in SWAT raid that broke doors and windows of your parenrs house?

@Boxer Good question.
Maybe the guy who thinks he's the smartest guy in the room but is about to be the smartest guy in holding cell?
Edited.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

OTOH, maybe the WA traffic stop counts as "flirting" for him? A sustained conversation with a woman?

It's as if he's playing dumb, to prolong the encounter (and he may know that prolonging the encounter diminishes his chances of a major ticket - she tells him she could cite him for three things, but ultimately chooses the minor thing - seatbelt infraction). She is so infinitely patient with him. Or else, they don't have many traffic stops in Pullman, nothing else to go attend to? Is he sussing that out too?

Would be interested in what others saw in that.

I did as @North_Idaho_Nony suggested, and muted sound. As soon as I saw her nails (manicured, painted, "pretty"), I thought, "uh oh", and started watching his face. He uses his eyes, BIG TIME, for, I suppose, what he considers "flirting". She was in a superior physical position (standing, looking down at him, not to mention the uniform and the gun), and he used his eyes to "submit" to her. His words are a whole different matter.

 

[Nila Aella]

Bryan Kohbergers Defense goes on Offense Story

Bryan Kohberger's defense lawyer goes on the offense

Kohberger, 28, is charged in the fatal stabbings of four University of Idaho students at a rental home in Moscow, Idaho.

www.newsweek.com

Kohberger's attorney is doing "what any good defense lawyer does: go on the offense," Neama Rahmani, a former federal prosecutor and president of West Coast Trial Lawyers, told Newsweek.

"Judges don't like it when the state doesn't turn over evidence, and judges can sanction the prosecution as a result."

Rahmani noted that an Idaho judge took the death penalty off the table in the murder trial of Lori Vallow "because prosecutors didn't comply with their discovery obligations."

Michael McAuliffe, a former federal prosecutor and elected state attorney, told Newsweek that a detailed defense motion to compel the state to produce additional or specific items during discovery "is not unusual."

"Of course, several items sought by the defense are, or were, once located in Pennsylvania, so the Idaho authorities must obtain the evidence, review it, and classify it before anything could be produced or shown to the defense," he said.

Both Rahmani and McAuliffe noted that prosecutors have an obligation to turn over exculpatory material with or without a defense motion.

edit: added McAuliffe statements

 

[maskedwoman]

As a law lay person, I find the news coalitions' reasons that the gag order is harmful, to be fairly inconsequential The judge may find that the legal aspects of the case RE, freedom of the press, to be true, none of their stated reasons is truly causing harm to the public.

The attorney who wrote the in Declaration in Support may as well have said of the coalition, "Without anyone giving their opinions on the case since you issued the gag order, we're losing money from clicks and ad sales." My favorite reason she says the media is affected by the order is the Idaho Statesman's inability to find out the size of BK's cell, the size of the Moscow jail and the nature of BK's meals.

I am fascinated by the Court's tactical moves here. Am I right that cancelling the Victims families' hearing for the 25th and setting a scheduling conference effectively freezes all the complaints until after the scheduling conference and the hearing date eventually scheduled at that conference? If the intent was just to hear both complaints at once, why not tell the press and their attorneys to show up on the 25th when the victims do or suffer in silence?

Is the judge effectively thumbing her nose at a party coming before her court? Is it acceptable under the rules for the judge to deliberately delay an action coming before the court? Or does this give the complaining parties the right to go higher? As things stand now, I'm thinking the earliest possible hearing date will be somewhere around June 25th, wink wink.

 

[maskedwoman]

I'm so glad you linked this article. I think that whatever happened immediately after BK's arrest (which also resulted in several strange lines picked up by MSM in the early days of his arrest, like "Did you arrest anyone else?") is what his defense is trying to learn more about. As others are speculating, they might be hoping to demonstrate sloppy police work in the interrogation / administration of Miranda Rights after BK was taken into custody. All IMO.

IMO, after seeing the recently released bodycam footage of the traffic stop where BK asks the cop so many questions about being stopped in the middle of an intersection, it would not surprise me in the slightest if he tried to explain / challenge / ask (incriminating OR exculpatory) follow up questions immediately following his arrest. Whatever he said might also be of interest to the defense's case -- perhaps he offered an immediate explanation to PA cops / FBI and the defense wants confirmation of that explanation to present in the preliminary hearing. IMO, and hopefully that makes sense. Simply put, BK might have said something to police immediately following his arrest that his defense wants an additional record of.

I wouldn't be surprised either. I do remember his PA PD saying he had been eager to speak and PD told him to be quiet.

 

[PrairieWind]

In the history of ever, has there ever been a murder case where the defense didn't file motions, alleging withheld discovery?

Seems pretty standard to me. Defense Motions 101.

Next up motions to quash, motions to exclude, motions to delay, motions to dismiss...

And after that motions to pound the table loudly.

Jmo

it is common because the prosecution is often withholding information.

 

[Cool Cats]

Who doesn't ask for an attorney immediately after being arrested a middle of the night in SWAT raid that broke doors and windows of your parenrs house?

I think Bryan's attorney AT might be thinking the same. Like:

"What on earth did my client say to police?"

"5 or 15 minutes? Which is it?"

 

[Cool Cats]

it is common because the prosecution is often withholding information.

They can't hold exculpatory evidence or the case could get tossed.

I wonder if the officer they are investigating falls under Impeachment evidence - his statements.
(Impeachment evidence, when it comes to criminal trials, refers to prior acts or statements that would affect a witness's credibility.)

In fact, prosecutors who withhold exculpatory evidence could find themselves facing criminal charges. And that requirement may even include evidence that wouldn't be admissible in court.

In Brady v. Maryland, the Supreme Court ruled that criminal defendants may be entitled to a new trial if prosecutors fail to turn over evidence favorable to the defendant (exculpatory).

What Is 'Exculpatory' Evidence? - FindLaw

It may sound like useless legalese, but it could mean the difference between a guilty verdict and an acquittal. Learn more on FindLaw Blotter.

www.findlaw.com