4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[girlhasnoname]

Seeing that there has been a grannd jury the trial will most likely begin faster. Without a grand jury indictment, the prosecutor has to demonstrate to the trial judge that he has enough evidence to continue with the case.

However, with a grand jury indictment, the prosecutor can skip that step and proceed directly to trial. MOO is: you better believe they have something earth shattering....

Yes, no PH with a GJ indictment. Love this news, was thinking it might happen, but always nice to have it confirmed. I wonder if there will be room for a plea if the State seeks the DP?

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, no PH with a GJ indictment. Love this news, was thinking it might happen, but always nice to have it confirmed. I wonder if there will be room for a plea if the State seeks the DP?

MOO

I'm having the same questions. The entire discovery process was leading to motions from the defense that might even have delayed the PH. Moscow wants justice.

I have to say I am surprised, as it's so rarely done.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm having the same questions. The entire discovery process was leading to motions from the defense that might even have delayed the PH. Moscow wants justice.

I have to say I am surprised, as it's so rarely done.

It will keep both surviving victims from having to testify before trial, that's a huge plus IMO.

Even though we joke about indicting a ham sammi, I believe there is a lot of evidence against BK, obviously enough for the GJ impaneled to decide it was enough to bind him over to trial.

Maybe rare, but not unheard of especially a case of this high profile magnitude.

MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Grand jury indicts Bryan Kohberger in connection with murder of 4 University of Idaho students​

"The 28-year-old was extradited to Idaho in January.

The multicount indictment includes first-degree murder, the Latah County District Court clerk confirmed to ABC News.

He will appear for his arraignment in Moscow, Idaho, on Monday and enter a plea, according to multiple sources.
...
"We are just grateful another step in the process has been completed and we believe this was the best option for the circumstances," Steve Goncalves, the father of Kaylee, said in a statement to ABC News Wednesday."

ETA: This is the most important aspect of this decision ^^^^^^ IMO, even if it's only 1 of the 4 families of the victim's that feels this way, although I suspect they all would agree the more the better, in terms of proceedings that could be transacted in secret/private.

Grand jury indicts Bryan Kohberger in connection with murder of 4 University of Idaho students

 

[10ofRods]

Banfield's report this morning that a secret grand jury has indicted Bryan Kohberger is big news. Now that PH is no longer needed, and arraignment and entering plea is scheduled for next week on Monday, May 22, lots of questions regarding time of trial, etc.

I'm alerting @PrairieWind, our verified expert attorney, hoping s/he can give us some insight on next steps and why she thinks the D.A. summoned a grand jury. Did the defense know this was coming and, if so, were they not really preparing for a preliminary hearing?

I am not PW, but if it was a secret Grand Jury, I would think that the defense did not know. They seemed to me (esp. with their attempt to subpoena BF) to be preparing for the prelim. And that may have been the issue that made the State seek the Grand Jury.

Although (and I don't say this often), I think that besides the ID('s) found in his car, there's other evidence from the car that was sufficiently incriminating. I also think that the reason the autopsies were redacted is that the actual autopsy evidence is gruesome and would be very hard for the families to listen to. What SG already knows, per his early statements, is horrifying but also paints a certain forensic picture to me. The picture of MM found on BK's phone is also highly incriminating.

OTOH, this goes a long way to ensuring that BK will get a fair trial. Imagine if the entire world knew many of the details, pre-trial. I believe the most important parts of the evidence would have resulted in a trial anyway, but many of the gruesome details would be other there. It's so prejudicial to the defendant.

If the Defense has exonerating evidence, they can file pre-trial motions. I now suspect those motions will be kept under the gag order, so we will have to await trial - which may be a long, long time. But, I don't know the Judge, which could make all the difference in the world. I do wonder if each pre-trial motion's results will be revealed (denied or confirmed). I would think so.

IMO.

 

[PrairieWind]

I'm having the same questions. The entire discovery process was leading to motions from the defense that might even have delayed the PH. Moscow wants justice.

I have to say I am surprised, as it's so rarely done.

The motions from the defense will occur regardless. If the prosecution has done this to try to withhold information that would be a problem. Given the discovery motions to compel, one possible answer is that the prosecution case regarding forensic evidence is not as far along as it should be and they need more time. That would have been heavily challenged at a PH. I have speculated in the past that there could be a problem with the DNA. the Prosecution can avoid that in the short term by using the GJ. But while the PH will be vacated, the discovery hearings will proceed.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, I do, primarily based on the fact that a GJ is a private setting.

It could all be just too awful, some of the evidence, due to the heinous nature of the crimes, that should never see the light of day or be presented in open court for the public to know about.

Also, the GJ setting allows the prosecution to present their case without the defendant or their attorney present, which is another aspect of privacy that allows them to jump ahead and holds the defendant at arms length.

MOO

I think you summarized the reason very well. If the trial does occur (and unless they offer him a plea bargain, it will), the evidence is going to be really gruesome and awful. The Defense knows this. Kohberger knows this.

Also, the amount of evidence that we know right now would be enough (as others are saying) for him to be bound over - but the PH would likely have prejudiced the case. The Defense now has to sift through all that evidence.

Since it appears that BF never traveled back to Idaho, I would think this process went forward and spared the two survivors from having to testify, which scores points for the side of humanity and compassion.

I agree with what others are saying about the trial taking place fairly quickly (although, again, the Defense has stall tactics available). But it will eventually happen (probably at least a year or two from now - and I hope I'm wrong; IHIW is my new acronym.)

IMO.

 

[Boxer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658861344672878593

Given hyper speculation on the survivors this seems a good decision.

 

[10ofRods]

Slightly off topic but I never read this was established and I definitely don’t want to go back through all 80 threads… has it been confirmed definitely that BK had pictures of MM on his phone/ was connected to her on SM? Or is it all speculation, i.e. reported but not confirmed?
TIA

NewsNation reported it. Also, a couple of outlets reported that Kohberger had "slid" into her DM's on Instagram (her Instagram is still up, although a few things may have been edited). He did this three weeks before the murders (per NewsNation who reported it before the gag order, perhaps the family members were still speaking off the record). Apparently, it was his actual account.

At any rate, we can't know whether NewsNation is reliable, but I suspect they are. Since the gag order, I've noticed that they are relying mostly on sources outside the gag order (which only reaches people in the State of Idaho - the Idaho judge cannot gag people in Pennsylvania or Washington, is my understanding).

On the forensic side, I have often wondered if they used forensic radiology (something the U of Washington has pioneered - and the ME where the autopsies were done has a state-of-the-art facility, nearly brand new, all the equipment one needs). This would be cutting edge use of their tools, as it would be able to locate microscopic metal fragments in the wounds, allowing some form of spectometry as to the chemical composition of the particles.

I also want to say that @Sister Golden Hair 's analysis of the search warrants leads me to believe they tracked down where he bought the knife <<< true that that's speculation, but I find it compelling. I also find it easy to believe.

And then there is the wider net of cell phone tower information (aside from the main towers in Moscow) AND the GPS data from his phone (which surely corroborates the ping data).

I just wish we knew how long it took to present the evidence to the GJ.

IMO.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Yes, no PH with a GJ indictment. Love this news, was thinking it might happen, but always nice to have it confirmed. I wonder if there will be room for a plea if the State seeks the DP?

MOO

More or less randomly:

I woke up in the middle of the night because existential dread and all that, and that's why I was awake to see the news of that 2am Banfield tweet. I went to a different discussion site, and many posters 'love this news' because they think it means the prosecution's case is weak.

People are weird, man.

 

[10ofRods]

The motions from the defense will occur regardless. If the prosecution has done this to try to withhold information that would be a problem. Given the discovery motions to compel, one possible answer is that the prosecution case regarding forensic evidence is not as far along as it should be and they need more time. That would have been heavily challenged at a PH. I have speculated in the past that there could be a problem with the DNA. the Prosecution can avoid that in the short term by using the GJ. But while the PH will be vacated, the discovery hearings will proceed.

Yes, I realize that the discovery motions will continue. The idea that the forensic evidence is not fully put together is interesting. I can think of several things that could take some time. OTOH, my list of things that would be quickly done is fairly long, too.

I tend to think that the GJ keeps Kohberger's case free of salacious public interest, so it may benefit both sides.

I expect to see way more pre-trial motions than usual, as the Defense still has to pore over all that massive amount of evidence (and, presumably, collect its own). It's hard to imagine what the Defense will be able to use to explain a victim ID being found in his glove box (which I believe to be accurate reporting from News Nation, but can understand why others might think otherwise).

I would assume they called actual witnesses to the GJ and would love to know who those were. I am learning to be patient. This could go on for quite some time.

IMO.

 

[Boxer]

I'm having the same questions. The entire discovery process was leading to motions from the defense that might even have delayed the PH. Moscow wants justice.

I have to say I am surprised, as it's so rarely done.

The whole preliminary hearing idea is because grand juries do go with the prosecutors case most of the time, so PHs were introduced to afford the defendent a judges (a more informed check) hearing on the state of the case against the defendant prior to the trial.

Still a grand jury is more fundamentally constitutional.

Norm Pattis, defense attorney, tried for dismissal of a case about this issue because his client Fotis Dulos who beyond a doubt killed his ex wife Jennifer Dulos, was not indicted by a grand jury but rather through a preliminary hearing in Connecticut.
He reasoned that Dulos' constitutional right to a grand jury was violated, nevermind the grand jury would obviously have indicted him more certainly than a PH.

 

[jepop]

The motions from the defense will occur regardless. If the prosecution has done this to try to withhold information that would be a problem. Given the discovery motions to compel, one possible answer is that the prosecution case regarding forensic evidence is not as far along as it should be and they need more time. That would have been heavily challenged at a PH. I have speculated in the past that there could be a problem with the DNA. the Prosecution can avoid that in the short term by using the GJ. But while the PH will be vacated, the discovery hearings will proceed.

@PrairieWind,as an attorney what do you make of the State's recent Response to the Defense's Motion to Compel? Is there any indication in there (from a legal perspective on language used) that the State is trying to withhold information or that the forensic evidence is not as far along as it should be? I'm also wondering what acceptable time limits are for processing and writing up forensic evidence. Perhaps there is a normative time, though wouldn't there be many factors at play here;amount of evidence, complexity of testing etc?

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051223%20States%20Response%20to%20Defendants%20Motion%20to%20Compel%20Discovery.pdf

*ETA: From my non-legally trained perspective the above response seems to indicate that the State is providing everything it should at this point, and even that the defense may have been mistaken in some of the points in its motion. MOO

The State also just responded to Defense's 3rd Supplemental Request, in which discovery regarding the DNA was sought. It's a fairly detailed response, not sure if it indicates an problems with DNA, it doesn't by my reading but INAL.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051223%20States%20Response%20to%20Defendants%20Third%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

 

[girlhasnoname]

Some State require felony (murder) charges to go before a GJ:

<snipped>

In 23 states, indictments are required for certain serious crimes. These states are: Alabama, Alaska, Delaware, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and West Virginia.

Which States Use Criminal Grand Juries? - FindLaw.

 

[Warwick7]

The motions from the defense will occur regardless. If the prosecution has done this to try to withhold information that would be a problem. Given the discovery motions to compel, one possible answer is that the prosecution case regarding forensic evidence is not as far along as it should be and they need more time. That would have been heavily challenged at a PH. I have speculated in the past that there could be a problem with the DNA. the Prosecution can avoid that in the short term by using the GJ. But while the PH will be vacated, the discovery hearings will proceed.

MOO is: prosecution has not done this to try to withhold information.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

This rule states that after an indictment, the defendant must be arraigned within 30 days. IMO, it seems like the arraignment on this case is a priority and was scheduled ASAP, since it's occurring (edited) on the morning of the 4th business day after the indictment:

"Idaho Criminal Rule 10. Arraignment on Indictment or Information

(a) In General. After an indictment or an information has been filed with the district court, the defendant must be arraigned on it by the court. The defendant must appear in person at the arraignment. The arraignment must be within 30 days after the filing of an information. If an indictment has been filed, the arraignment must take place:

(1) within 30 days of service of the summons if a summons has been issued;

(2) within 30 days of the defendant's initial appearance in the county issuing the indictment if a warrant has been issued following the indictment, and if the defendant is not in custody in the county in which the indictment is filed; or

(3) within 30 days of the filing of the indictment in all other cases."

Rule 10. Arraignment on Indictment or Information | Supreme Court

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

MOO is: prosecution has not done this to try to withhold information.

I'm thinking the same thing as you. Not everything has to be done with covering something up. Nor a negative connotation.
IMO, I believe with the addition of the 2 state reps on the prosecution, it should have been expected. Well, in my uneducated opinion and knowledge, I expected it. IMO, the defense probably expected it, as well.
We've all seen the crazy of this case already. Even with a gag order in place. The Prelim would have only been a circus sideshow and a holy mess - for BOTH sides.
Again, IMO, the GJ only helped keep the gag order remain in some sort of positive place. We'll always have leaks, etc., but for the defense, this could save their client from some damaging and/or prejudicial information coming out.
Again, just me and my opinions.

 

[sds71]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658896917017894930

indictment:

 

[Warwick7]

There are multiple reasons the Dad thought also this was the best option.

As @BUF commented earlier the superseding indictment means the accused quadruple murderer will not have a chance to attack the evidence used to arrest him at a preliminary hearing that had been scheduled.

Also most importantly it also spares the two surviving housemates and other potential witnesses from having to testify under cross-examination prior to trial.

 

[maconrich]

The case page has been updated to reflect the changes due to the GJ:

Indictment - Redacted

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051623%20Indictment%20-%20Redacted.pdf

Notice of Hearing Criminal

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051623%20Notice%20of%20Hearing%20Criminal.pdf

Order Governing Courthouse and Courtroom Conduct

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051623%20Order%20Governing%20Courthouse%20and%20Courtroom%20Conduct.pdf

Motion to Seal Grand Jury Witnesses

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051723%20Motion%20to%20Seal%20Grand%20Jury%20Witnesses.pdf

Order to Seal Grand Jury Witnesses

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20Grand%20Jury%20Witnesses.pdf

Link to Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest (where the above came from)

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest