4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

[twall]

Is this how it is usually described? First Murder count doesn't say "stabbed," but we can assume it applies to all four?

Ct. 2 - Murder in the 1st degree - willfully, intentionally, and with malice aforethought murdered #MaddieMogen.

Ct. 3 - Murder in 1st degree - stabbed #KayleeGoncalves (Judge called her Kayla).

Ct 4 - Murder by stabbing Xana Kernodle - Judge has trouble pronouncing her name.

Ct. 5 - Murder by stabbing of Ethan Chapin.

If you watch and listen to the actual hearing the judge does state MM death was caused by stabbing.

Around 6:00

 

[10ofRods]

I believe the Coroner stated that all had died of stab wounds to the torso.

That's what I remember too. And SG didn't say KG's wounds were "completely different," I think he said they were more severe ("big gashes"). IIRC, he said that the wounds were to her liver and to her lungs, which we discussed at length in the early threads, with long discussions about how such wounds would lead to rapid bleed-out but also prevent the victim from making any sound.

Some hypothesized that KG's wounds were different to MM's because Kaylee was killed after MM and was moving around. There is nothing to support this besides conjecture at this point, because SG is not an expert in autopsies or wounds. Nor is there any way he had of seeing the wounds on XK or EC, that any of us could think of. He did take care of funeral arrangements for MM and KG (but that would have been post-autopsy).

IMO.

 

[maskedwoman]

They could not change to an Alford plea if BK's team pled not guilty. If they plead not guilty, the only plea they can change to is guilty. Basically the strategy to stand silent is to leave all options open in terms of pleas. Since the defense does not yet know if this is a death penalty case, they are simply leaving all options on the table until they find out. This gives them the choice of Alford plea, Not Guilty plea or Guilty plea. Defendants usually enter an Alford guilty plea if they want to avoid a possible worse sentence were they to lose the case against them at trial. It affords defendants the ability to accept a plea bargain, while maintaining innocence.

None of this is emotional.

Thank you for explaining this! I had been wondering what difference it made for him to stand silent if the judge was going to enter a NG plea anyway. I'm guessing there is a legal distinction between BK voluntarily pleading NG and the judge doing it for him?

 

[NuttMegg]

I think I find BK's standing silent plea distasteful because it indicates a willingness to game the system to his best advantage.
He's the only one alive who knows if he is guilty or innocent. And if he feels he can't share his choice between guilty and not guilty then that indecision only opens the door to more questions in my opinion.
It brings to my mind his statement that he ". . . is eager to be exonerated . . ." which doesn't seem to go hand in hand with standing silent.
Obviously very moooo - and probably makes it obvious to all who read why I struggled so with my one and only law class.

Moscow murder suspect Bryan Kohberger 'eager to be exonerated'

Seven months ago, a man with the name Bryan Kohberger conducted a study on Reddit asking people who've been arrested to share their thoughts on committing crimes.

www.ktvb.com

Lol I forgot that one. "Eager to be exonerated" not equal to "I'm innocent"!!!!

 

[LAhiker]

Thank you for explaining this! I had been wondering what difference it made for him to stand silent if the judge was going to enter a NG plea anyway. I'm guessing there is a legal distinction between BK voluntarily pleading NG and the judge doing it for him?

Though the explanation is tempting, I'm not sure it is correct. As I asked on the previous page, don't most defendants who enter Alford pleas start out by pleading not guilty?

JMO

 

[sleepysleuth]

JMO - I think that he went with the "standing silent" plea because I think the defense is hoping to work out a plea bargain with the prosecution to spare his life. I think they will argue that by not pleading "not guilty" Bryan hasn't subjected the victim's families to additional pain and suffering.

 

[NuttMegg]

They could not change to an Alford plea if BK's team pled not guilty. If they plead not guilty, the only plea they can change to is guilty. Basically the strategy to stand silent is to leave all options open in terms of pleas. Since the defense does not yet know if this is a death penalty case, they are simply leaving all options on the table until they find out. This gives them the choice of Alford plea, Not Guilty plea or Guilty plea. Defendants usually enter an Alford guilty plea if they want to avoid a possible worse sentence were they to lose the case against them at trial. It affords defendants the ability to accept a plea bargain, while maintaining innocence.

None of this is emotional.

Damien Echols and his 2 friends took the Alford Plea, iirc after >15 years serving time after not guilty pleas

 

[girlhasnoname]

https://twitter.com/Angenette5

It appears that some family members are on the other side of the courtroom in two rows but there are some I haven't seen before. It's hard to see exactly from my seat. We will be turning around the video from the hearing ASAP for you on

More family members just enter the courtroom along with #KayleeGoncalves family attorney Shanon Gray. The Goncalveses have been the most vocal of all of the families of the #Idaho4. Steve and Kristi Goncalves are here. It appears there are 4 rows of family

I see #MaddieMogen's mother in one of the first two rows. The pain on the faces of the family members... I can't imagine being in their shoes

Kristi Goncalves walked up to the front row and hugged #MaddieMogen's mom. She smiled back. Very heartwarming moment. Remember, the knife sheath was found next to Maddie. The killer went to her room first. Kaylee had moved out and was there for the weekend

We are in a different courtroom from the initial appearance in January. That was in Judge Megan Marshall's court. This is Judge John Judge's courtroom - a higher court - which is in the district court. Felonies tried in district court

There is a baby in the courtroom and it's making cute gurgling, baby sounds. #KayleeGoncalves' sister had a baby in the last several months. Not sure that is her baby but certainly a possibility

#BryanKohberger and his attorney, Anne Taylor, just enter. Judge Judge is on the bench

We can only see the back of #BryanKohberger's head. Judge Judge says "we have some people on Zoom." That would be family members who couldn't travel for the hearing. An attorney is participating via Zoom

Judge Judge introduces himself. "Mr. Kohberger, you've already heard most of what I am going to tell you at your initial appearance. But it's important.”

Judge: You have a right to have a lawyer represent you. Miss Taylor and her team have already been appointed. You have a right to a speedy and public trial.

Judge: You have a right to testify in your own defense. But, you don't have to. You also have a right to silence and that can't be held against you in any way. Anything you do say, except to your attorneys, can be used against you. Do you understand? BK: Yes, I do…

BK says he understands his rights. He confirms "yes" he has a copy of the indictment in front of him. He says "yes" when asked whether his name is spelled correctly.

Judge Judge reading charges. Starts with burglary charge. Unlawfully entered a residence with the intent to commit the felony crime of murder.

Ct. 2 - Murder in the 1st degree - willfully, intentionally, and with malice aforethought murdered #MaddieMogen.

Ct. 3 - Murder in 1st degree - stabbed #KayleeGoncalves (Judge called her Kayla).

Ct 4 - Murder by stabbing Xana Kernodle - Judge has trouble pronouncing her name.

Ct. 5 - Murder by stabbing of Ethan Chapin.

Maximum penalty - up to 10 years in prison. Restitution. Fines. Counts 2-5 - Murder in 1st degree maximum penalty LWOP or Death Penalty - Prosecutors haven't yet said whether they would seek the DP

When asked whether he understands the charges, one-by-one, he says clearly and forcefully "Yes." He understands the maximum penalty. "yes." Anne Taylor says they will be standing silent when entering a plea.

Judge says because Taylor and BK are standing silent, he is entering not guilty pleas on his behalf. Anne Taylor says regarding speedy trial, she is asking Judge to set it just outside of the speedy trial limits.

Taylor says October 2023 - she believes it will take 6 weeks

Bill Thompson responds: Those trial dates are workable for the state, judge.

This is VERY interesting. Basically Anne Taylor says "we are ready to go." Trial set for * October 22, 2023

State has 60 days to let defense know whether they will seek the death penalty. Adjourned #BryanKohberger led out.

#kayleegoncalves sister just told a representative from the court it was disrespectful that Judge Judge called Kaylee Kayla. The woman said something in response and she said "I know but it's important."

CLARIFICATION: We believe Judge Judge set the trial for October 2 - not 22. Hard to hear in the back.

* cross-out and bbm done by @arielilane

Darn, I missed the hearing.

But NOTHING BK or the Defense team did surprises me. He could firmly answer he understood his rights and the charges, but they stood silent on the Plea? WTAH??

This is a game to this defendant, he's arrogant, cocky, feels superior to these little plebes in the justice system. I bet he did not make eye contact with any of the victims families either. Good, they don't need that hateful, blank stare on them.

The State has their case I have no doubt. If it's heard in early October, I expect BK to sentenced and doing time on Death Row or LWOP before the first anniversary of murder of these beautiful young people. He makes me sick and I believe he's a dangerous man who would have gone on to become a serial killer just for the fun of it.

ALL MY OPINION.

 

[Cindizzi]

I believe the Coroner stated that all had died of stab wounds to the torso.

It’s in the charging document on each charge - “ by stabbing “

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Criminal%20Complaint.pdf

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

a willingness to game the system to his best advantage.

No offense, but if I were on trial for my life, even if I were innocent, I might "game the system" to my best advantage. In fact, I'd even argue that it's not gaming, but considering and making use of my rights under the law. JMO, however. Regardless of guilt or innocence in BK's case, we are all afforded rights under the law, and IMO it makes sense to use those. There's nothing nefarious about that IMO. I mean - crazy, I know - but what if he's innocent? Would that then be gaming the system? IDTS. But that's JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660748004138315776

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660748004138315776

[…]

So what does "standing silent" during a plea really mean?
Former Ada County Chief Deputy Prosecutor Jean Fisher told KTVB that standing silent doesn't have any detrimental effect on a defendant.

"Standing silent could help the defense if they intended to file a motion of (Kohberger's) competency. They wouldn’t want him assisting the court by answering legal questions and then turn around and file an 18-211 motion asserting he is not presently competent to stand trial. I obviously don’t know if that is considered at all. Just saying that is about the only 'upside' to standing silent," Fisher said.

This means that he did not enter a plea, but a plea was entered on his behalf to move forward. Kohberger has the right to remain silent during his plea, as specified under the Fifth Amendment.

Anything a defendant says or does in a proceeding or interview can be held against them at a later date.

[…]

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660748004138315776

Jinx you owe me a Coke.

 

[Helechawagirl]

I haven't heard anything to suggest BK did it. I just said I would not take that as a prank. I realize young people play pranks on campus, although I do wonder if underwear pranks would be "ok" in the #metoo era.

If someone moved my luggage out of the car, stuff from the car into the luggage, then at least one thing from the luggage back into the car, I would feel very much the same as I would if someone broke into my house and moved things around in such a way that I couldn't help but notice. And I would most definitely feel threatened. MOOooo

Maybe that’s the point—lock your doors!

 

[girlhasnoname]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660694865053892608

So sorry that the families of victims get hounded and treated so unfairly by the paps.

 

[Veronica Sawyer]

Any impressions of BK from the courtroom? In my own opinion, with zero qualifications, he reminds me of someone who has been taught how to interact, rather that it naturally occurring. Like trained in responses, such as maintaining eye contact for at least a moment, appearing engaged, responding to questions in a certain manner.

I still only see someone who is well-mannered and respectful yet socially awkward, which in my experience has significant influence on all else. Even when I’ve made conscious effort in the moment to not be that way I’ve been told my mannerisms are stiff and rehearsed. It is what it is. / JMO

 

[Helechawagirl]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660700663788216320

Bk only seems to have one expression so still photography not that interesting IMO.

 

[TL4S]

If you watch and listen to the actual hearing the judge does state MM death was caused by stabbing.

Around 6:00

Thank you!

 

[Erutan]

If ever a case merited the ultimate penalty .....If BK's convicted , that is.
Otoh, let him spend the remainder of his days in a cage, thinking about his choices.
Imo.

 

[Helechawagirl]

No offense, but if I were on trial for my life, even if I were innocent, I might "game the system" to my best advantage. In fact, I'd even argue that it's not gaming, but considering and making use of my rights under the law. JMO, however. Regardless of guilt or innocence in BK's case, we are all afforded rights under the law, and IMO it makes sense to use those. There's nothing nefarious about that IMO. I mean - crazy, I know - but what if he's innocent? Would that then be gaming the system? IDTS. But that's JMO.

I agree. I would make the plea that gave me the most options. If he is innocent, there’s a heckuva frame job and in that case, might wanna do an Alford plea at a later date. He visibly reacted to the charges as the judge read them. I think he was uncomfortable. Looked down for awhile and then looked forward with small movements. Either a vein was bulging in his face or he was clinching his jaw. Keeping his mouth shut may be hard for him. JMO