4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

[Sleuth2010]

Court regarding gag order:

SECOND HEARING: Bryan Kohberger hearing on gag order and media coverage

A second hearing in the Bryan Kohberger case is underway. This one deals with media coverage and a gag order that has been issued.

m.youtube.com

 

[ilovewings]

I haven't gone thru all the threads but wonder why BK did not enter a plea so the judge had to enter a not guilty plea. Why didn't BK just enter a NG plea

 

[Cindizzi]

I actually have a day job that cuts into my free time by about 10 hours a day lol...

BUT I did think I saw that AT actually addressed the issue. Am I right that AT rose and addressed the court?

If so, I'd imagine that was decided in advance, AT made that choice for a reason, and IMO that reason was probably not so that BK could look cold and controlling to the judge and the courtroom. JMO.

Yes it appeared AT response was decided in advance.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660715188859838466

 

[mickey2942]

I found it interesting that when BK got up to leave the courtroom there was absolutely zero interaction between him and his attorney. He stood up and walked out never looking at her and she never looked at him. It felt like a very tense situation.

Gotta say, I predicted this...as a way to stall the inevitable, "unable to work with counsel". BK has nothing but time now, so stalling is the new game. I will say, there is no way there will be a trial in October. BK will want new counsel, they get time, on and on..

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I found it interesting that when BK got up to leave the courtroom there was absolutely zero interaction between him and his attorney. He stood up and walked out never looking at her and she never looked at him. It felt like a very tense situation.

Or perhaps, IMO, they were just being professional (in what is a professional relationship) in a tense situation and knew that everything would be interpreted negatively regardless, so no interaction at all would be the most innocuous of the choices. IMO I cannot imagine how any interaction would have played well.

Case in point: the stuff that's being discussed about BK not standing to enter a plea.

Mr Kohberger was expected to enter a plea but instead his attorney Anne Taylor said that he was “standing silent” on the charges, leaving the judge to enter not guilty pleas on his behalf.

I imagine that this was decided in advance and done on the advice of counsel, not his personal whim, but the fact that he didn't address the court on that one has been immediately interpreted as a reflection on his personal choice/control/etc. The truth is, we don't know why that happened, but I'm just using it as an example of how any interaction between BK and AT could have been interpreted negatively. JMO.

 

[Balthazar]

There’s been talk of it being done for strategic reasons, but no one has yet cited a case where someone pled ‘not guilty’ early on, and lost options because of that.

On the other hand, you could probably fill a few football stadiums with people who pled ‘not guilty,’ and then plea-bargained.

Idaho doesn’t even have a ‘not guilty by reason of insanity’ plea, I believe.

BK and his attorneys don’t seem to be making any effort to say that he’s not competent to stand trial. Would a plea of ‘not guilty’ even get in the way of that?

So, I think that his choice may well be ‘emotional’—done for his satisfaction.

They could not change to an Alford plea if BK's team pled not guilty. If they plead not guilty, the only plea they can change to is guilty. Basically the strategy to stand silent is to leave all options open in terms of pleas. Since the defense does not yet know if this is a death penalty case, they are simply leaving all options on the table until they find out. This gives them the choice of Alford plea, Not Guilty plea or Guilty plea. Defendants usually enter an Alford guilty plea if they want to avoid a possible worse sentence were they to lose the case against them at trial. It affords defendants the ability to accept a plea bargain, while maintaining innocence.

None of this is emotional.

 

[jepop]

I haven't gone thru all the threads but wonder why BK did not enter a plea so the judge had to enter a not guilty plea. Why didn't BK just enter a NG plea

When you get a chance to go through the thread, you'll see you're not the only one asking this question. No definative answer IMO, other than in the first (and purely practical) instance because he could. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Wasn't Gray representing them before the gag order? I think that what happened (and I'm sorry if this offends some) is that Mr G was making a lot of press statements and was mixing in information given to him by the investigators that wasn't meant to be public. They began dialing back the info they were sharing with him and that is when he started call the Moscow PD cowards and criticizing them.

Yes, I believe so. And the Gonçalves family seems committed to remaining able to speak out, even without any information from inside the investigation. They may merely want to weigh in, in the gag order case, or have their representative advise them based on what happens when Judge Judge issues his ruling.

I think Mr. G apologized for some of his critical statements. He's likely trying to figure out more about where the line is, gag-order wise. It must be very frustrating for him, but I personally doubt that the Judge is going to modify the gag order, with only six months to go to trial.

Can you help me understand whether it seems usual for the evidentiary motions to also be sealed? We've seen a lot of sealing of subpoenas, which I do understand. But if the Defense brings motions to exclude certain things - do you think that those hearings will also be banned for the press? Will the decisions be written so that we learn that the Judge said "yes" or "no" to evidence, but is it possible we won't know what the actual evidence is, that is being decided?

Sorry for the wordiness, that's the part of this upcoming phase that I am just not understanding.

IMO and TIA for any help.

 

[10ofRods]

Gotta say, I predicted this...as a way to stall the inevitable, "unable to work with counsel". BK has nothing but time now, so stalling is the new game. I will say, there is no way there will be a trial in October. BK will want new counsel, they get time, on and on..

You sure did! And you got me thinking about it constantly for the next couple of days. It makes perfect sense.

If they put the DP on the table (which seems likely), he can continue his Alford path and agree to plead guilty while not admitting guilt (it sounds bizarre, but that's what an Alford plea is). He gets sentenced - but he avoids the DP, which can only be based on a jury trial. It's almost like a bench trial, in that the Judge has to agree that there was enough evidence to convict.

Since the evidence is being produced by both sides, the Judge has to weigh an Alford plea against the evidence. LWOP would be the appealable sentence, and the Defense would hope (as has happened in other Alford pleas) that some judge at a higher level will say there wasn't enough evidence.

I have no clue what happens if that happens, but in the cases I read about, the case kept going to a higher level (with Alford himself getting his case all the way to the Supreme Court, who let the sentence stand, IIRC).

IMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

BK's silent self indulgent gesture in court today reminds me of...

BK's chatting up the female traffic cop, "so next time I should back out of the intersection"?

I think he's just a "look at me" kind of guy, not being able to create interest in ways normal people would.

Para: Hi I'm Brian. Where do you live?

27 year old Brian's brain (guessing here): maybe if I stare at that blonde gal 10 tables away for 15 minutes she'll go out with me.

 

[Chloegirl]

His silence in Court seems to me cowardly behaviour.

Also, it suggests that he is guilty.
An innocent person would shout "NOT GUILTY".
I'm disgusted by all this.

JMO

I don't want to give it too much energy but I could not agree with you more. Those in the court system, I give a lot of credit to, putting up with this level of BS. Just sigh.

 

[PrairieWind]

I found it interesting that when BK got up to leave the courtroom there was absolutely zero interaction between him and his attorney. He stood up and walked out never looking at her and she never looked at him. It felt like a very tense situation.

That is actually typical. In serious cases like this with a Defendant in custody, at the end of a hearing the deputies/Marshals will immediately remove the Defendant, there is no loitering. It reduces chances for confrontations. The attorney can the go meet with the Defendant in the holding area outside the Courtroom if need be. She would have told him that. Any delay just invites trouble in my opinion. That is not the time and place for attorney/client interaction.

 

[Cindizzi]

When you get a chance to go through the thread, you'll see you're not the only one asking this question. No definative answer IMO, other than in the first (and purely practical) instance because he could. MOO

Local reporters saying it’s been done in other Idaho cases

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660684308573724673

I’ll be watching for AD’s story explaining standing silent .

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660733277890838528

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660720642097020928

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Is this how it is usually described? First Murder count doesn't say "stabbed," but we can assume it applies to all four?

Ct. 2 - Murder in the 1st degree - willfully, intentionally, and with malice aforethought murdered #MaddieMogen.

Ct. 3 - Murder in 1st degree - stabbed #KayleeGoncalves (Judge called her Kayla).

Ct 4 - Murder by stabbing Xana Kernodle - Judge has trouble pronouncing her name.

Ct. 5 - Murder by stabbing of Ethan Chapin.

I think, and it's just speculation, that there is a reason for this. I remember <modsnip: rumor> Steve Goncalves said that Kaylee and Maddie's injuries were completely different (paraphrasing).

I do think there could be something in it, and I think count 1 is worded differently for that specific reason, but I'm only guessing so don't take it as fact.

All JMO.

 

[LAhiker]

They could not change to an Alford plea if BK's team pled not guilty. If they plead not guilty, the only plea they can change to is guilty. Basically the strategy to stand silent is to leave all options open in terms of pleas. Since the defense does not yet know if this is a death penalty case, they are simply leaving all options on the table until they find out. This gives them the choice of Alford plea, Not Guilty plea or Guilty plea. Defendants usually enter an Alford guilty plea if they want to avoid a possible worse sentence were they to lose the case against them at trial. It affords defendants the ability to accept a plea bargain, while maintaining innocence.

None of this is emotional.

While I do think it's likely that the "standing silent" had a strategic reason, don't most defendants who end up making an Alford plea start out by pleading not guilty?

JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

They could not change to an Alford plea if BK's team pled not guilty. If they plead not guilty, the only plea they can change to is guilty. Basically the strategy to stand silent is to leave all options open in terms of pleas. Since the defense does not yet know if this is a death penalty case, they are simply leaving all options on the table until they find out. This gives them the choice of Alford plea, Not Guilty plea or Guilty plea. Defendants usually enter an Alford guilty plea if they want to avoid a possible worse sentence were they to lose the case against them at trial. It affords defendants the ability to accept a plea bargain, while maintaining innocence.

None of this is emotional.

Why could he not offer an Alford plea later?

 

[NottaYutz]

"...stood silent..." How bizarre.

Bryan Kohberger, Idaho Murders Suspect, Has Been Arraigned. His Trial Is Set for October

Kohberger “stood silent” rather than pleading guilty or not guilty to the November 2022 murders of Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin.

www.vanityfair.com

 

[PrairieWind]

BK's silent self indulgent gesture in court today reminds me of...

BK's chatting up the female traffic cop, "so next time I should back out of the intersection"?

I think he's just a "look at me" kind of guy, not being able to create interest in ways normal people would.

Para: Hi I'm Brian. Where do you live?

27 year old Brian's brain (guessing here): maybe if I stare at that blonde gal 10 tables away for 15 minutes she'll go out with me.

I don't see any of that in his conversation with the female officer. He was discussing and arguing a bit but really restrained and polite (otherwise he would have been pulled out). Just a few weeks ago I had a rather heated discussion with a police officer. I made a very similar comment to him. It wasn't meant to be degrading, but demonstrate that his interpretation wasn't realistic. My point is, that I think people are reading into BK's actions things that they WANT to see. I certainly think he is guilty, but some of things people are bringing up I think are laughable.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think, and it's just speculation, that there is a reason for this. I remember <modsnip: rumor> Steve Goncalves said that Kaylee and Maddie's injuries were completely different (paraphrasing).

I do think there could be something in it, and I think count 1 is worded differently for that specific reason, but I'm only guessing so don't take it as fact.

All JMO.

I believe the Coroner stated that all had died of stab wounds to the torso.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I think I find BK's standing silent plea distasteful because it indicates a willingness to game the system to his best advantage.
He's the only one alive who knows if he is guilty or innocent. And if he feels he can't share his choice between guilty and not guilty then that indecision only opens the door to more questions in my opinion.
It brings to my mind his statement that he ". . . is eager to be exonerated . . ." which doesn't seem to go hand in hand with standing silent.
Obviously very moooo - and probably makes it obvious to all who read why I struggled so with my one and only law class.

Moscow murder suspect Bryan Kohberger 'eager to be exonerated'

Seven months ago, a man with the name Bryan Kohberger conducted a study on Reddit asking people who've been arrested to share their thoughts on committing crimes.

www.ktvb.com