4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

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It's not mentioned in my reconstruction summary that DM or BF were sleeping on the 1st floor. Guess I missed something??? ;)
1ST floor: Exit door to where cars are parked: BFs room.
2ND floor: DM and XKs room (that night Ethan was with XK). Has sliding door.
3RD floor: KM/MM.

It's mentioned that at some point after the murders that DM went down to BFs room. Was that the PCA?

MOO
 
Dog Crate and KG's purse were both found inside of KG's new car according to Mrs. G. It is perplexing. Was KG getting ready to leave? Not sure. JMO.

I'd like to see an approved source for this assertion. I have listened online x2 times to an interview of Mrs and Mr G conducted by unapproved source dated Nov 20th 2022 and found nothing/ zero stated to this effect. Imo this is unsubstantiated rumour. Moo
November 14 2023 interview

7:54

JMO
 
Great summary with one correction: the two surviving roommates were not both sleeping on the first floor.

The first line on page 4 of the 12/29/2022 affidavit reads: "D.M. stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor; D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 am..."
emphasis obviously added by me....

IMO (any many others...) it's right there in the PCA if you read the entire sentence and not add a period where one is not present.

It's not that "She originally went to sleep at 4am."

It's "She originally went to sleep in her bedroom.....awoken at 4:00am"

IMO we're going to find out that DM originally went to sleep and woke up in her room, and then left her room and ran downstairs and then went to sleep in BFs room. Woke up in BF's room and called friends over after not hearing from their roommates.

MOO
 
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Haven’t watched this yet, but Matt Murphy is the man.

Former Orange County prosecutor Matt Murphy, who prosecuted the Golden State Killer and Dirty John:

The defense has an obligation to make every argument they can in order to preserve these issues on appeal.

Because it's a death penalty case, it gets a very high level of scrutiny by appellate courts, so the defense has to make every pretrial challenge they can.

"I think the jury is going to be pretty persuaded by these facts...really up against it."

DNA evidence here is critical. It's huge. This evidence in his view is very, very strong.

Autism diagnosis really goes to mitigation. More geared towards the penalty phase. "Good luck with that guys."

Average juror is way more concerned about other things than following the particular case they have been selected for. It's shocking how little they tend to know about it beforehand, and he doesn't think it will be an issue at all in Boise.

Death penalty cases they automatically go to state Supreme Court on appeal, so the judge wants to be very, very, careful here. He's trying to minimize any potential appellate issues down the road.

He suspects the jury makeup will be beneficial for the prosecution. It will be a departure from the radical ideology that he's used to in Southern California.

He says he would be surprised if trial started on time. He says it's moving at light speed compared to what would happen in California.

Defense holds an ace in their hand. Because it's a death case, it means that if the defense requests additional time they're almost guaranteed to get it. No judge in a case this serious is going to want to force a defense lawyer into trial until they're ready, as this opens the door to an appeal based on ineffective assistance of counsel. So they can unilaterally continue this if they want to.

August. Maybe?

Thinks they've had enough time but who knows.
 
Notice how BK sends to think everyone ought to accommodate him, but he accommodates for no one.

Zero capacity (or desire) to consider another's need/point of view.

It would seem there is only the world according to BK.

JMO
Just like other murderers who fear the Death Penalty, yet they have no problem killing other people.
 
Without a license plate, yes it is circumstantial... but one of those things that when you string together 20 coincidences, most juries will realize the impossibility that it's not related.
But when it comes to BK, talking about 20 coincidences is a stretch. Seriously, there aren't even two. MOO.
 
But when it comes to BK, talking about 20 coincidences is a stretch. Seriously, there aren't even two. MOO.

Two? Are you serious?

Kohberger's DNA on the knife sheath.

He drives a white Hyundai, the same car law enforcement is looking for.

He just so happens to go out for a late night drive, at a time consistent with him being the killer.

His cell phone happens to go dark minutes into this trip, coming back online outside the murder window. Seriously, there's never been an easier time in history to verify an alibi, and his phone happens to shut off during the precise time period that would exonerate him. This is an absolutely astonishing "coincidence."

He arrives back at his apartment at a time consistent with him being the killer, spends about 3 hours there, and then takes a short drive into Moscow before heading home. Just like a killer would do if they wanted to see what was going on. Then of course, he never returns to Moscow again, a place he had made a dozen or so trips to late at night, which is what a meticulous killer would do if scouting a murder location.

I can't wait for the coincidence of him happening to purchase a Kbar knife, which is also missing.

And perhaps some dickie's coveralls.

In any event, even 20 is going to wind up being low.
 
Kohberger's DNA on the knife sheath.
He drives a white Hyundai, the same car law enforcement is looking for.
He just so happens to go out for a late night drive, at a time consistent with him being the killer.
His cell phone happens to go dark minutes into this trip, coming back online outside the murder window.
He arrives back at his apartment at a time consistent with him being the killer, spends about 3 hours there, and then takes a short drive into Moscow before heading home.
SBMFF
1. We don't even know whose knife was used.
2. If he had a white Bugatti and it was the only one around, then maybe you could call it a coincidence.
3. The late-night drive might seem odd, but in that town, partying and ordering food at 4 am is the norm, isn't it?
4. His cell phone goes dark during the murder window. Have you checked his logs?
5. Sure, criminals often return to the crime scene, we hear. But not that soon. This is more like an anxious guy checking things out.

<modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the cast>

. But there's no murder - no motive, no purpose, no propensity. We'll know more at trial. MOO
 
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SBMFF
1. We don't even know whose knife was used.
2. If he had a white Bugatti and it was the only one around, then maybe you could call it a coincidence.
3. The late-night drive might seem odd, but in that town, partying and ordering food at 4 am is the norm, isn't it?
4. His cell phone goes dark during the murder window. Have you checked his logs?
5. Sure, criminals often return to the crime scene, we hear. But not that soon. This is more like an anxious guy checking things out.

<modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case> But there's no murder - no motive, no purpose, no propensity. We'll know more at trial. MOO
DNA on knife sheath.
BARD.
 
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SBMFF
1. We don't even know whose knife was used.
2. If he had a white Bugatti and it was the only one around, then maybe you could call it a coincidence.
3. The late-night drive might seem odd, but in that town, partying and ordering food at 4 am is the norm, isn't it?
4. His cell phone goes dark during the murder window. Have you checked his logs?
5. Sure, criminals often return to the crime scene, we hear. But not that soon. This is more like an anxious guy checking things out.

<modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case> But there's no murder - no motive, no purpose, no propensity. We'll know more at trial. MOO

IMO some of the points you mention are not consistent with what is known:

Even if LE hasn’t revealed whose knife was used, we know who used the knife.

Partying and ordering food at 4 AM may be the norm in that town, as you state, but even Bryan doesn’t claim to have been partying. He claims to have been driving around and stargazing.

LE certainly has his call logs and has already stated that his phone was turned off during the period of the murder. We don’t need the logs; LE and the attorneys do and they already have that info.

You state Bryan returned to the crime scene because he was anxious. What made him anxious? If he’s innocent but anxious, what was he even doing there? If he felt anxious because he “heard” there was a mass murder, why go to the scene at all? If the police were already there, what did Bryan need to “check out” if he had nothing to do with it?

In your final paragraph you suggest that he heard about the tragedy “the next morning,” and that “realizing the stolen knife might be involved, he drove back.”

What does this mean????? How did he know so early that a knife was involved if he wasn’t the murderer? Before the public at large knew the details?

And what stolen knife? Stolen from whom? Stolen from where? I’ve never heard anything about a knife being stolen.

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case>

IMO
 
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SBMFF
1. We don't even know whose knife was used.
2. If he had a white Bugatti and it was the only one around, then maybe you could call it a coincidence.
3. The late-night drive might seem odd, but in that town, partying and ordering food at 4 am is the norm, isn't it?
4. His cell phone goes dark during the murder window. Have you checked his logs?
5. Sure, criminals often return to the crime scene, we hear. But not that soon. This is more like an anxious guy checking things out.

<modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case> Here, coincidences are possible. But there's no murder - no motive, no purpose, no propensity. We'll know more at trial. MOO
Let's use a bit of common sense here. It will never let you down like fanciful, baseless narratives will.

1. The knife sheath belonged to a Kbar. It was bloody, indicating that it was present at the same time the knife was. We can solidly conclude that it does in fact belong to the murder weapon, and that weapon is a Kbar.

2 and 3. It's not just the white car, but the timing as well. It fits perfectly with him being the killer, even if one can come up with some bizarre reason for him going for a drive at that hour, like stargazing. LOL.

4. His cell phone wasn't going in and out of service. It was completely out of service within minutes of him leaving. If it was out of service, then it should have been out of service on his return trip (at the same point). It was not. This means the phone was powered down, or put into airplane mode. Law enforcement has the actual device, so they would be able to confirm this.

5. How can this be "an anxious guy checking things out?" The crime wasn't discovered until hours later. The only person who would know a crime was committed at that stage, was the person who committed that crime.

I'm going to ignore the whole drug scenario, as there is no basis to that whatsoever.

"Here, coincidences are possible. But there's no murder - no motive, no purpose, no propensity. We'll know more at trial."

As far as motive, one can look at history, his history, and the crime scene itself.

He creeped women out. He was condescending towards them. He graded them harshly. He allegedly followed one to his car. From that, we can draw the conclusion that he hated women, likely because they rejected him.

What does the crime scene tell us? This killer hated women.

What does history tell us about killers who commit crimes like this? It's about power, control, and revenge.

His job was in jeopardy, and his life was unraveling. He would have lost his scholarship, and thus likely lost his ability to finish his education.

History tells us that most killers who commit crimes like this have a precipitating stressor - a traumatic life event that triggers the crime.

He was an angry person, as demonstrated by his outbursts at school. He knew better than everyone, even his professor.

Stabbing 4 people to death is a crime of rage. This was about revenge on the women who had rejected him, and about showing how much smarter he was than everyone else, namely law enforcement.

This guy ticks so many boxes, we need more boxes.

Do you genuinely believe this quite straightforward theory of the crime, with Kohberger as the killer, put forth by the police, is less likely than what you put forth?

One is a theory based on evidence and inference. Another appears to be a complete work of fiction.
 
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IMO some of the points you mention are not consistent with what is known:

Even if LE hasn’t revealed whose knife was used, we know who used the knife.

Partying and ordering food at 4 AM may be the norm in that town, as you state, but even Bryan doesn’t claim to have been partying. He claims to have been driving around and stargazing.

LE certainly has his call logs and has already stated that his phone was turned off during the period of the murder. We don’t need the logs; LE and the attorneys do and they already have that info.

You state Bryan returned to the crime scene because he was anxious. What made him anxious? If he’s innocent but anxious, what was he even doing there? If he felt anxious because he “heard” there was a mass murder, why go to the scene at all? If the police were already there, what did Bryan need to “check out” if he had nothing to do with it?

In your final paragraph you suggest that he heard about the tragedy “the next morning,” and that “realizing the stolen knife might be involved, he drove back.”

What does this mean????? How did he know so early that a knife was involved if he wasn’t the murderer? Before the public at large knew the details?

And what stolen knife? Stolen from whom? Stolen from where? I’ve never heard anything about a knife being stolen.

With respect, I believe your scenario does not hang together at all.

IMO
The morning - no one knew a murder happened yet.
 
SBMFF
1. We don't even know whose knife was used.
2. If he had a white Bugatti and it was the only one around, then maybe you could call it a coincidence.
3. The late-night drive might seem odd, but in that town, partying and ordering food at 4 am is the norm, isn't it?
4. His cell phone goes dark during the murder window. Have you checked his logs?
5. Sure, criminals often return to the crime scene, we hear. But not that soon. This is more like an anxious guy checking things out.

<modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case> But there's no murder - no motive, no purpose, no propensity. We'll know more at trial. MOO
We know whose knife sheath it was.
 
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1. The knife sheath belonged to a Kbar. It was bloody, indicating that it was present at the same time the knife was. We can solidly conclude that it does in fact belong to the murder weapon, and that weapon is a Kbar.
2 and 3. It's not just the white car, but the timing as well. It fits perfectly with him being the killer, even if one can come up with some bizarre reason for him going for a drive at that hour, like stargazing. LOL.
4. His cell phone wasn't going in and out of service. It was completely out of service within minutes of him leaving. If it was out of service, then it should have been out of service on his return trip (at the same point). It was not. This means the phone was powered down, or put into airplane mode. Law enforcement has the actual device, so they would be able to confirm this.
5. How can this be "an anxious guy checking things out?" The crime wasn't discovered until hours later. The only person who would know a crime was committed at that stage, was the person who committed that crime.
SBMFF.
1. We cannot conclude anything. The killer could have stolen the knife weeks before the murder and left the sheath in the house on purpose to divert the police. The sheath only confirms that BK held it at some point. Nothing more.
<modsnip - rude>
 
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SBMFF.
1. We cannot conclude anything. The killer could have stolen the knife weeks before the murder and left the sheath in the house on purpose to divert the police. The sheath only confirms that BK held it at some point. Nothing more.
2-5. I understand this logical puzzle might be a bit too complex for you, however in the 21st century, you don't convict suspects just because they might have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.
"A circumstantial case is one where the evidence relies on inference rather than direct proof. It involves facts or situations that suggest a particular conclusion, but do not directly prove it. In such cases, the evidence is indirect, and the conclusion is drawn from the surrounding circumstances."

If one looks at the evidence, and the conclusion isn't one that reasonable people would agree with, then they're doing it wrong. In no universe is it plausible that sheath was planted, leaving BK's DNA on a particular portion of the sheath the killer had to touch.

Especially not when you throw in the white car, the timing of his drive, and the damning black hole in his phone data. That's not coincidence, it's a pattern that paints a picture of guilt.

This is a very simple logical puzzle, one that needs not fantastical leaps, and scenarios that have never happened in the history of American crime.

This isn't at all complicated, and there's no reason to make it so.
 
reading that NYT piece about the correct order of investigative discoveries you can see how BK possessing an Elantra is so damning. the chances that the guy who matches the DNA would also have the suspect car are tiny let alone that it would be driving in the dead of night near the crime ….

not credible that is all a coincidence IMO
 
"A circumstantial case is one where the evidence relies on inference rather than direct proof. It involves facts or situations that suggest a particular conclusion, but do not directly prove it. In such cases, the evidence is indirect, and the conclusion is drawn from the surrounding circumstances."

If one looks at the evidence, and the conclusion isn't one that reasonable people would agree with, then they're doing it wrong. In no universe is it plausible that sheath was planted, leaving BK's DNA on a particular portion of the sheath the killer had to touch.

Especially not when you throw in the white car, the timing of his drive, and the damning black hole in his phone data. That's not coincidence, it's a pattern that paints a picture of guilt.

This is a very simple logical puzzle, one that needs not fantastical leaps, and scenarios that have never happened in the history of American crime.

This isn't at all complicated, and there's no reason to make it so.
Bingo!
(Don’t forget another one….when Brian gets back east he methodically wears latex gloves at home and trots to his neighbors to dispose of his trash. That’s a little hard to explain.}
 
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