4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #97

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MTS Lamsden

Page 7
Mr. Kohberger was not under investigation for violating Pennsylvania or federal law. Thus, this Court should be required to apply Idaho search and seizure law to their actions in Pennsylvania.
It's hard to get a balanced picture when the State's responses are sealed. I hope when Hippler issues orders on these motions any of his reasoning that doesn't potentially compromise the integrity of trial will be unsealed.

However, I did have a look at the unsealed State Reply to MTS Warrant for WA Apartment, and the Lamsden PA search warrant MTS is referenced.


The points that stand out to me and hint at the nature of P's response to Logsdon's claims:

a) State says D's argument re Search Warrant for BK's WA Apartment parallels argument for MTS Search warrant PA Lamsden.

b) Quoting from P's response

"Regarding the Defendant's represented "FACTS," and as opposed to relying on Defendant's subjective summary and interpretation, the State respectfully refers the Court to
Defendant's "Exhibit A" in support of his Motion to Suppress RE: Search Warrant for Defendant's Apartment"

(my bolding & italics)

The above 'referral' is repeated in every unsealed P response I've read, so imo likely to also be included in P response to MTS Lamsden Search Warrant.

I think this reveals the P's assessment that Logsdon plays loose with the facts in his prose and can be obtuse and misleading in motions. No denying it's a pointed statement to the court, though it is polite ( not sarcastic) and without hyperbole. Jmo

C) quoting the summary of P's argument below. (Details and attachments are all sealed.)

"In his Memorandum, at page 5, the Defendant discusses what should be the applicable law between the States of Idaho and Washington. This is the same discussion the Defendant
presented in his various motions regarding search warrants from the State of Pennsylvania.
Similar to the State's response to those motions, the State acknowledges that there appears
to be little, if any, substantive differences between the applicable laws between the States of Idaho and
Washington, and the State submits that under either law the Defendant's Motion should be denied.".
(My emphasis).

Just as a layperson, that sounds reasonable and I don't think this part of D's argument re differing state laws will pass muster. Leaving aside the poison tree IGG hooha, I think LE executed search warrants lawfully in accordance with each state (PA and WA) and were careful to do so. Jmo




*
 
It's hard to get a balanced picture when the State's responses are sealed. I hope when Hippler issues orders on these motions any of his reasoning that doesn't potentially compromise the integrity of trial will be unsealed.

However, I did have a look at the unsealed State Reply to MTS Warrant for WA Apartment, and the Lamsden PA search warrant MTS is referenced.


The points that stand out to me and hint at the nature of P's response to Logsdon's claims:

a) State says D's argument re Search Warrant for BK's WA Apartment parallels argument for MTS Search warrant PA Lamsden.

b) Quoting from P's response

"Regarding the Defendant's represented "FACTS," and as opposed to relying on Defendant's subjective summary and interpretation, the State respectfully refers the Court to
Defendant's "Exhibit A" in support of his Motion to Suppress RE: Search Warrant for Defendant's Apartment"

(my bolding & italics)

The above 'referral' is repeated in every unsealed P response I've read, so imo likely to also be included in P response to MTS Lamsden Search Warrant.

I think this reveals the P's assessment that Logsdon plays loose with the facts in his prose and can be obtuse and misleading in motions. No denying it's a pointed statement to the court, though it is polite ( not sarcastic) and without hyperbole. Jmo

C) quoting the summary of P's argument below. (Details and attachments are all sealed.)

"In his Memorandum, at page 5, the Defendant discusses what should be the applicable law between the States of Idaho and Washington. This is the same discussion the Defendant
presented in his various motions regarding search warrants from the State of Pennsylvania.
Similar to the State's response to those motions, the State acknowledges that there appears
to be little, if any, substantive differences between the applicable laws between the States of Idaho and
Washington, and the State submits that under either law the Defendant's Motion should be denied.".
(My emphasis).

Just as a layperson, that sounds reasonable and I don't think this part of D's argument re differing state laws will pass muster. Leaving aside the poison tree IGG hooha, I think LE executed search warrants lawfully in accordance with each state (PA and WA) and were careful to do so. Jmo




*
The argument comparing Wash and PA was regarding probable Cause and the Franks Motion. Not the no Knock aspect of the PA home MTS. The Lamsden MTS has multiple arguments. jmo

As demonstrated by the Washington Search Warrant and Amendment (Exhibits S-1 and S-2 to this Objection), the search ofthe Defendant's residence was done pursuant to specific Washington Court-issued Search Warrants based on substantial probable cause....

It also refers to the Franks submissions.


jmo
 
This MTS argument was addressing the search of the parent's home and BKs statements prior to arrest. IMO the arrest warrant/search warrant/criminal complaint dates are included for the timing.

All exhibits are sealed.

No.
The MTS is for the Search warrant issued for BKs parent's home.

Yes.

No.
According to the D MTS Lamsden and the documents: First there was a search warrant of the home signed, then an arrest warrant in ID, then the home search warrant was executed, then a valid Criminal complaint was filed in PA.
Noting: the search warrant was issued/signed before either arrest warrant.

This is the list of documents in PA - I don't see a seperate FFJ warrant. I looked this up b/c you mentioned it in your first post and to confirm the date/time.

Commonwealth v. Kohberger 682 MD 2022​

Selected postings​


Dec. 29, 2022 - Search warrant (Hyundai Elantra), inventory, exhibits

Dec. 29, 2022 - Search warrant (B. Kohberger), inventory, exhibits

Dec. 29, 2022 - Search warrant (home) and authorization

Dec. 29 2022 - Kohberger warrant application

Jan. 3, 2023 - Order (Returning defendant to Idaho) and Waiver of Extradition

Jan. 2, 2023 - Decorum Order

Jan. 2, 2023 - Administrative Order (1-AD-2023 in Case 5-CV- 2023)

Dec. 30, 2022 - Police Criminal Complaint (Monroe County)

PA arrest warrant was valid. PA can arrest someone without a warrant if that someone has a DP charge as long as they bring them before the Court promptly to answer (Title 42 S9135) .

I think JL only mentioned this for the timing as it relates to the MTS home warrant.

JL issues in the Lamsden MTS:

Pennsylvania Law Enforcement Violated Mr. Kohberger’s Fourth Amendment Rights by Entering and Searching His Parents’ Home without a Valid Local Warrant.

a. The Idaho arrest warrant could not have given police in Pennsylvania the authority to enter the home.


He goes on to argue this issue in the MTS.
https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/med...022-policecriminalcomplaint(monroecounty).pdf

You posted this:

BBM

IDK if it is a strong or weak argument, but IMO JL was clear and there appears to be documentation supporting his issue argued in the MTS home search.
The P objection to this MTS was sealed.

JMO
Thanks very much for this. Appreciate your thoughts and response. It was unclear to me what Logsdon''s arguments actually were re local warrants, search, arrest or what.

I've given up reading between his lines. Taking the P's advice, the exhibits are what matters in terms of facts. Am looking forward to hopefully reading anything Hippler delivers in writing re the various arguments.

Thanks so much for linking all the PA docs. Cos of my location, my access is denied ( cannot open them) but have seen the PA search warrant docs before in 2023 via msm. It was the FJJ warrant I was interested in but now understand there was no need for an actual physical warrant. BK was brought before PA court in a timely manner which fulfilled the FFJ requirements. Much appreciated.
 
Thank you for clarifying @jepop !
I had completely missed the point about the timing in @Nila Aella 's post and hadn't clicked on the links.
So the PA arrest document exists, but was a few hours after the actual arrest... does this mean Logsdon is technically right?
I'm attaching the December 30 PA ! complaint you kindly pointed me towards.
Thanks, appreciate your effort. Was able to read the PA complaint this way. Interesting.
 
The argument comparing Wash and PA was regarding probable Cause and the Franks Motion. Not the no Knock aspect of the PA home MTS. The Lamsden MTS has multiple arguments. jmo

As demonstrated by the Washington Search Warrant and Amendment (Exhibits S-1 and S-2 to this Objection), the search ofthe Defendant's residence was done pursuant to specific Washington Court-issued Search Warrants based on substantial probable cause....

It also refers to the Franks submissions.


jmo
Yeah sorry! There was some confusion the other day around MTS arrest warrant and MTS search warrant. I thought D motion arrest warrant was implying arrest was invalid and BK was arrested without a valid warrant and/or PA team searched Lamsden without valid warrant. Also some posts on thread asserted that.

I feel assured under WA and PA laws state had the correct warrants, also that under section 42 of the act you cited, PA authorities could take BK into custody and arrest as a FFJ and it was completely legal for that to happen. Moo
 
I've given up reading between his lines. Taking the P's advice, the exhibits are what matters in terms of facts. Am looking forward to hopefully reading anything Hippler delivers in writing re the various arguments.

RSBM

This is what i was getting at some days ago. It is an important element of the criminal justice system that defence attorneys stress test all the procedural aspects of the case to keep the prosecution honest - not just in this case but in other cases.

But by the same token, as citizens, we don't need to take particularly seriously the bottom line here - namely that using a combo of a public database and a trash raid constitutes some egregious constitutional violation such that a quad-killer should walk.

If they can show a genuinely significant violation then sure. But i don't feel the heat.

And perhaps more generally, I feel like good police work is being trashed in many cases by a contrarian view that somehow there is always corruption lurking.

Ditto, individual cases are not referendums on criminal justice. If you think such powerful DNA databases should not exist, then you need to campaign to get the law changed. Ditto I agree defendants should have better access to bail, preliminary hearings etc etc - but these things are not the fault of the judge or prosecution. In the end search warrants are a low bar to secure and they are not litigated in detail in front of judges.

MOO
 
It's worth remembering that BK was under surveillance in PA. To the extent that LE was worried he would commit more crimes, the surveillance made that unlikely. Thus they could take their time to get the warrants they needed. There was no hurry. I think in a lot of cases where a suspect is identified, there is concern about the suspect disappearing or going on a spree of some sort and haste can lead to mistakes.

I also think that mistakes and omission way back in the OJ Simpson case have fed the notion that major screwups are the norm. I think if OJ were tried today he would be convicted simply because people believe DNA now and because prosecutors who aren't busy becoming media stars will put on a tighter case, choosing which LE officers will best present the evidence.
 
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It's worth remembering that BK was under surveillance in PA. To the extent that LE was worried he would commit more crimes, the surveillance made that unlikely. Thus they could take their time to get the warrants they needed. There was no hurry. I think in a lot of cases where a suspect is identified, there is concern about the suspect disappearing or going on a spree of some sort and haste can lead to mistakes.

I also think that mistakes and omission way back in the OJ Simpson case have fed the notion that major screwups are the norm. I think if OJ were tried today he would be convicted simply because people believe DNA now and because prosecutors who aren't busy becoming media stars will put on a tighter case, choosing which LE officers will best present the evidence.
BK could have disappeared the minute he detected there was surveillance.
Leaving his car, taking off at night, and traveling tactically in black clothes, since he is a runne he could be many many miles away by dawn and have gained access to another vehicle.
 
BK could have disappeared the minute he detected there was surveillance.
Leaving his car, taking off at night, and traveling tactically in black clothes, since he is a runne he could be many many miles away by dawn and have gained access to another vehicle.
I don't think disappearing is that easy when you don't have a lot of money. I suppose it's possible that a person could give the PA State Police and FBI could screw up a surveillance on a suspect in a multiple murder but they didn't. My point was that knowing where he was, having eyes on him, and knowing his parents were also there meant that they didn't need to move so quickly that they could make mistakes.

I was a distance runner (marathoner) in Pennsylvania way back when. Even highly trained runners can struggle with distances over 20 miles and in the dark in mid-winter in the Pocono Mountains running would be difficult and dangerous. And where would he go? Once he ran, his photo would be all over the country. And the PA state police have dogs and helicopters. You're right that some killers would try to run and a literal runner might have a bit of a shot of getting away, but this guy doesn't strike me as one who would survive 30 days in the Poconos in December and January.
 
I believe that most here will say yes. Majority here apparently believe BK is guilty.

I am wondering. Why does AT have case schedule conflict on 1/23/25 with BK's case and another client? Not sure what to make of it.

After yesterday, I am expecting another hearing to be scheduled with the defense and prosecution which likely will not be public. We'll see what happens.

JMO.

BKs is scheduled for 9, the other hearing is scheduled for 2:30.
Are the hearings in the same building?
JHipp has scheduled two days (if needed) for the BKs 1/23 hearing. I expect it to last all day.

I agree about an additional hearing with both the P and D.

jmo
I'm not sure how the case schedule conflict happened but the 1/23/2025 hearing in the Skaylar Meade case has been vacated and rescheduled for now. They are going for the death penalty in Skylar's case and heneeded a public defender and Anne is the only one that can be lead counsel that services the northern Idaho area. So thats's how she ended up assigned to Skylar Meade's case. So now Anne can focus on Bryan's 1/23/2025 hearing.
 
Case Summary was updated to 6th Jan.


I summarised the summary update

12/31/2024
*Response to Defendant's 21st Supplemental Request for Discovery

*Objection to Defendant's Motion to Compel I.C.R. 16(b)(7) Material and for Sanctions

01/02/2025
*Stipulation
Stipulated Motion to Seal Exhibit to State's Objection to Defendant's Motion to Compel ICR 16
(b)(7) Material and for Sanctions

*Exhibit
SEALED Exhibit to State's Objection to Defendant's Motion to Compel ICR 16(b)(7) Material and for Sanctions

*Motion to Redact or Seal Newly Filed Records. Stipulated Motion to Seal Exhibit A to Defendant's Motion to Compel ICR 16(b)(7)

*Subject Document-Motion to Redact or Seal Newly Filed Record Exhibit A to our Motion to Compel ICR 16(b)(7)

*Subject Document-Motion to Redact or Seal Newly Filed Record
Exhibit T to Defendant's 21st Supplemental Request for Discovery

01/03/2025
*
Subpoena Issued

01/06/2025
*Scheduling Order
for ICR 12 Motions

*Order Sealing State's Motion to Extend No Contact Orders and Amended No Contact Orders

*X3 Orders Modifying / Amending No Contact Orders

01/23/2025
*Motion Hearing (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer: Hippler, Steve).
 
By stating that, I meant they're just doing their job (all part of the process). It doesn't imply that there's anything significant that should be thrown out. JMOO

oh sure.

For my own part, i am just becoming cynical in these mega trials that critical filings are intended for the Judge.

If you can create conspiracies around the case you can perhaps taint the jury.

MOO
 
I don't think disappearing is that easy when you don't have a lot of money. I suppose it's possible that a person could give the PA State Police and FBI could screw up a surveillance on a suspect in a multiple murder but they didn't. My point was that knowing where he was, having eyes on him, and knowing his parents were also there meant that they didn't need to move so quickly that they could make mistakes.

I was a distance runner (marathoner) in Pennsylvania way back when. Even highly trained runners can struggle with distances over 20 miles and in the dark in mid-winter in the Pocono Mountains running would be difficult and dangerous. And where would he go? Once he ran, his photo would be all over the country. And the PA state police have dogs and helicopters. You're right that some killers would try to run and a literal runner might have a bit of a shot of getting away, but this guy doesn't strike me as one who would survive 30 days in the Poconos in December and January.
I agree. This is the real world, not a Hollywood movie. Kohberger couldn't disappear without a trace clad in black like a ninja, especially when he was under heavy surveillance and in a relatively rural area, IMO.
 
MTS Lamsden

Page 7
Mr. Kohberger was not under investigation for violating Pennsylvania or federal law. Thus, this Court should be required to apply Idaho search and seizure law to their actions in Pennsylvania.

Imagine the implications of every state doing that. Temporarily adopting another state's laws and training the police in order to arrest someone from the state they supposedly reside in. Impossible.

Good gracious sakes, what else will she try????
 
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