4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

[girlhasnoname]

I have no clue. In this case, it appears that only one of the four families has a lawyer that's challenging the gag order. Is that usual? I don't know.

IMO.

None of the Delphi families are challenging their gag order. I do think it's more unusual than not.

MOO

 

[GRT]

Or is this BK's decision to thumb his nose at the process and his attorney, Anne Taylor, had no choice but to go along with it?

Or maybe it was strategic?

I wonder what benefit--if any--could come from doing that?

 

[Sundog]

I wonder what benefit--if any--could come from doing that?

If you keep reading this afternoon's posts on here, many have come up with some strategic legal possibilities.

 

[mickey2942]

I believe that the Grand Jury was a game changer here.

 

[girlhasnoname]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660748004138315776

[…]

So what does "standing silent" during a plea really mean?
Former Ada County Chief Deputy Prosecutor Jean Fisher told KTVB that standing silent doesn't have any detrimental effect on a defendant.

"Standing silent could help the defense if they intended to file a motion of (Kohberger's) competency. They wouldn’t want him assisting the court by answering legal questions and then turn around and file an 18-211 motion asserting he is not presently competent to stand trial. I obviously don’t know if that is considered at all. Just saying that is about the only 'upside' to standing silent," Fisher said.

This means that he did not enter a plea, but a plea was entered on his behalf to move forward. Kohberger has the right to remain silent during his plea, as specified under the Fifth Amendment.

Anything a defendant says or does in a proceeding or interview can be held against them at a later date.

[…]

But Idaho doesn't have a NGRI:

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 2
PERSONS LIABLE, PRINCIPALS AND ACCESSORIES
18-207. MENTAL CONDITION NOT A DEFENSE — PROVISION FOR TREATMENT DURING INCARCERATION — RECEPTION OF EVIDENCE — NOTICE AND APPOINTMENT OF EXPERT EXAMINERS. (1) Mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct.
Section 18-207 – Idaho State Legislature

 

[girlhasnoname]

I believe that the Grand Jury was a game changer here.

110% agree, they have found some irrefutable evidence (DNA most likely).

MOO

 

[U.N. Known]

9

Comparing the Payne AA and the Blaker search warrant exhibit A: Some differences.

Both are the same on arrival: wondering if they all went together to do the walk through. Both say "later" when referring to the sheath. Maybe the sheath was not visible on walk through and only discovered later. Was the door only used as a reference to placement? MOO

Payne

On November 13,2022, at approximately 4:00 p.m., Moscow Police Department (MPD) Sergeant Blaker and I responded to ll22 King Road, Moscow, Idaho, hereafter the "King Road Residence," to assist with scene security and processing of a crime scene associated with four homicides.Upon our arrival, the Idaho State Police (lSP) Forensic Team was on scene and was ' preparing to begin processing the scene. MPD Officer (OFC) Smith, one of the initial responding officers to the incident, advised he would walk me through the scene.OFC Smith and I entered the King Road Residence through the bottom floor door on the north side of the building.

Blaker

On November13,2022, at approximately 4:00 p.m., Moscow Police Department Corporal(CPL)Brett Payne and I responded to 1122 King Road, Moscow,Idaho, hereafter the King Road Residence to assistwith scene security and processing ofa crime scene associated with four homicides.Uponour arrival,the Idaho State Police Forensic Team was onscene and was preparingto beginprocessingthe scene.MPD Officer(OFC)Smith,one of the initial respondingofficers to the incident,advised he would walk me through the scene.Smith and I entered the King Road Residence through the bottom floor door on the northside ofthe building. OFC Smith and I then walked upstairs to the second floor

Payne

I also later noticed what appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath laying on the bed next to Mogen's right side (when viewed from the door).

Blaker

I was later advised by ISP investigators they located a tan leather knife sheath laying on the bed next to Mogen's right side (when viewed from the door).



MOO
BBM

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/kohberger-search-records-from-wsu/6e5a6ce24a286a06/full.pdf

Thank you for this. I have gotten the two accounts confused, at first not realizing they were written by different officers.

I find it interesting that Blaker and Payne seem to have arrived to the scene at the same time and were offered a walk though by Ofc Smith yet, "Payne noticed what appeared to to be" a knife sheath while Blaker was advised and by Idaho State Police investigators that they located about the sheath.

The differences may mean nothing but it's something I'd want details about considering that the knife sheath is the only possibly identifiable connection (that we know of) between BK and the house.

*I say possibly identifiable because DNA on sheath does not automatically mean BK and the rest of his DNA left it behind.

 

[Sundog]

But Idaho doesn't have a NGRI:

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 2
PERSONS LIABLE, PRINCIPALS AND ACCESSORIES
18-207. MENTAL CONDITION NOT A DEFENSE — PROVISION FOR TREATMENT DURING INCARCERATION — RECEPTION OF EVIDENCE — NOTICE AND APPOINTMENT OF EXPERT EXAMINERS. (1) Mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct.
Section 18-207 – Idaho State Legislature

My own thinking is that the grand jury was a game-changer at the moment because it impacted strategy for the defense and available time going forward. I don't think the grand jury necessarily had a "beyond a reasonable doubt" case presented to them. Remember the saying that a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. I think this step circumvented the strategy of the defense team, but was probably a good move for the prosecution. JMO.

Edits to clarify.

 

[arielilane]

3//4 hrs ago


https://twitter.com/BrianEntin


Kohberger arraignment video on @NewsNation right now.

Hearing related to Bryan Kohberger gag order is about to start.

Can't stop thinking about Alivea's baby in court. The message it sent.

Kohberger in court video:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660695068293074944

Statement from Kaylee Goncalves’ family;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660695844264501248

Kohberger is back in the courtroom for gag order hearing.

Goncalves family attorney wants the gag order issues resolved quickly — asking the judge to address it this week.

Judge says because the media coalition went to the Supreme Court - it has slowed the process down.

Judge says AP/Media coalition needs to “tone down” their challenge to the gag order.

There are 2 different issues happening in court right now with the Kohberger gag order. 1- the Goncalves attorney wants clarity so he can speak on behalf of his clients,. 2- the media coalition is fighting for more public information/less strict gag order.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660706895555072000

Correction — both gag order and cameras will be addressed on the 9th. 27th is an evidentiary hearing.

Judge is not making any decisions today on the Kohberger gag order. Hearings set for June 9th to address it. Also a hearing June 27th to address cameras in court.

 

[jepop]

You sure did! And you got me thinking about it constantly for the next couple of days. It makes perfect sense.

If they put the DP on the table (which seems likely), he can continue his Alford path and agree to plead guilty while not admitting guilt (it sounds bizarre, but that's what an Alford plea is). He gets sentenced - but he avoids the DP, which can only be based on a jury trial. It's almost like a bench trial, in that the Judge has to agree that there was enough evidence to convict.

Since the evidence is being produced by both sides, the Judge has to weigh an Alford plea against the evidence. LWOP would be the appealable sentence, and the Defense would hope (as has happened in other Alford pleas) that some judge at a higher level will say there wasn't enough evidence.

I have no clue what happens if that happens, but in the cases I read about, the case kept going to a higher level (with Alford himself getting his case all the way to the Supreme Court, who let the sentence stand, IIRC).

IMO.

INAL but I just did a quick bit of research on Alford plea. So many questions now.

Can anyone enlighten on some of these?

I take it the Court/judge has to evaluate the evidence at the time plea is made and rule that it would have resulted in conviction.

If Court/judge is not satisfied (at the time) that the evidence would have resulted in a conviction, does judge reject the plea and send the
the defendant on to trial?

When is the latest that the defendant can enter an Alford plea before trial?

If the defendant does not enter an Alford plea or otherwise plead guilty via plea bargain before trial, can he go to trial whilst still standing silent? Or does he have to plead NG (break silence) before trial can commence? Can he go to trial on the basis of judge's entry oF NG? (pardon my ignorance on these details).

Can defendant suddenly go for an Alford plea in the middle of trial or is that a legal impossibility because he has to actually speak a plea of NG before trial can commence?

Does the prosecution have to agree to an Alford plea like a plea bargain?

 

[Cindizzi]

But Idaho doesn't have a NGRI:

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 2
PERSONS LIABLE, PRINCIPALS AND ACCESSORIES
18-207. MENTAL CONDITION NOT A DEFENSE — PROVISION FOR TREATMENT DURING INCARCERATION — RECEPTION OF EVIDENCE — NOTICE AND APPOINTMENT OF EXPERT EXAMINERS. (1) Mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct.
Section 18-207 – Idaho State Legislature

I believe she said competency.

Competency and an Insanity Defense are 2 different things.

The person quoted was with the Ada County Idaho Prosecutor Office for over 30 years.

Special Crimes Unit Chief Jean Fisher retires after nearly 33 years of service

“Nothing felt quite as meaningful to me as those cases did,” said Jean. “I learned how important it was to treat every case with as much empathy, respect and dignity as I possibly could.”

adacounty.id.gov

 

[U.N. Known]

Or maybe none of any of that happened at all...

That's my guess MOO IMO TWISI

Along with most of whatever else the "source" told the Dateline

I mean it could have happened, but...Did the reporter ask the source why his sister would connect nearly 6 week-old murders in ID to wearing nitrile gloves in PA?

His dad had days to see his hands. We saw his hands during one of the traffic stops in IN. It was mid December and ...he wasn't wearing gloves.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

No offense, but if I were on trial for my life, even if I were innocent, I might "game the system" to my best advantage. In fact, I'd even argue that it's not gaming, but considering and making use of my rights under the law. JMO, however. Regardless of guilt or innocence in BK's case, we are all afforded rights under the law, and IMO it makes sense to use those. There's nothing nefarious about that IMO. I mean - crazy, I know - but what if he's innocent? Would that then be gaming the system? IDTS. But that's JMO.

Certainly no offense taken, SGH. I understand the legality of it and the drive to live as well. But I'm an old fart, brought up to be strong enough to stand by my ingrained convictions.
And I imagine if I were innocent and found myself in his position, I would feel like it's too akin to lying to stand mute. Even more so if it would be to only my own benefit to do so. As I age, I do see more gray areas of rights and wrongs in life choices, but not so much here.

 

[Love Never Fails]

No offense, but if I were on trial for my life, even if I were innocent, I might "game the system" to my best advantage. In fact, I'd even argue that it's not gaming, but considering and making use of my rights under the law. JMO, however. Regardless of guilt or innocence in BK's case, we are all afforded rights under the law, and IMO it makes sense to use those. There's nothing nefarious about that IMO. I mean - crazy, I know - but what if he's innocent? Would that then be gaming the system? IDTS. But that's JMO.

I do not believe he is innocent. I’m sick of all the murderers in the past few years trying to “game the system” and Kohberger would know how to do this as well as anyone.

 

[Deleted member 718]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660759961025036288

 

[U.N. Known]

BK is visibly reacting to the charges—-looking down for awhile….eyes blinking at other times. Fidgeting. Vein? Throbbing on right cheek or jaw clinching?

That sounds perfectly reasonable. It would not be surprising to see an innocent person, who's never had any legal trouble behave in such a way. A guilty person, with remorse or even a sudden dose of reality may be fidgety as well. A "this is real" reaction.

 

[U.N. Known]

I do not believe he is innocent. I’m sick of all the murderers in the past few years trying to “game the system” and Kohberger would know how to do this as well as anyone.

It seems fitting that someone capable of 1st degree murder would also try to "game the system/" They aren't interested in going to prison.

 

[PrairieWind]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660759961025036288

This Judge will hear the arguments for sure, but I don't think its looking too good for the media to get that gag order lifted. And I think they really have themselves to blame.

 

[U.N. Known]

Kohberger in court video:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660695068293074944

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin

Do we know if Kohberger is shackled? He seems to have an odd gait in that video.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetwork

Idaho murders suspect #BryanKohberger appeared in court for the second time Monday after being arraigned on murder charges for the quadruple stabbings of four University of Idaho students.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660741467315359751

Several media outlets, including Law&Crime Network, and #KayleeGoncalves’ father challenged the gag order in the case made by Judge Megan Marshall.

Judge John Judge, who will now preside over the murder trial, discussed the motion and scheduled two hearings for June 9 to address the motions over the wide-ranging gag order.

LIVE UPDATES: New photos of #BryanKohberger in court, judge delays decision about gag order FOLLOW HERE: https://bit.ly/42W8YCL

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660754351378386946

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660754351378386946