4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 72

[Beth11311]

How very passive-voice. You'd think someone, somewhere, might have written something down in a circumstance regarding hiring somebody, even if only an email to say, "not that guy, no way, lol. drinks tonight?" No? Oh well. We can't all be record keepers.

I know it differs state to state, but in CA we were required to keep all resumes (and decisions about the applicants) from ANY applicants for a total of I think 2 years.

 

[Helechawagirl]

Except he left his computer behind. And he wasn't finally "fired" until after he was back in PA for the holiday.

Maybe he saw the handwriting on the wall, maybe he couldn't face telling his father yet so he left some expensive machines behind.

I don't think we really know.

It’s possible he was delusional enough to think he wasn’t going to be fired. JMO

 

[Helechawagirl]

Can you expound on that? How did he help save someone’s life? And when was he a security guard at a school?! Yikes….

There was a woman who went into cardiac arrest; BK ran and got the defibrillator while the other person performed cpr. The woman survived.

 

[gremlin444]

Late reply, but thank you so much for this. I am the stepmom of a child (now adult) who has received counseling, specialized education, medication, and residential treatment since the age of 6. We love him dearly and have done our very best, but he is 22 now. We continue to pay for counseling twice a week, which is more than our rent. We are not even allowed to ask him whether he is still on his medication. We know he goes to counseling because we get the invoice. He says he’s “fine”.
*snipped*

Hey, Kareylou, I'm in a similar boat here, though mine is only 20. He is living at home, just got his GED, is starting to figure out his schooling and is working on getting a job more than the dog walking he's been doing because it was flexible and could fit around his therapies. And we are so proud of him, as are you of your stepson. And it hurts every time I see a post talking about how could his parents not have known, and how suspicious it is that he didn't start college until quite late.

 

[Helechawagirl]

Can you expound on that? How did he help save someone’s life? And when was he a security guard at a school?! Yikes….

Here’s a real nice article about him, his mother, sisters, and the para professional he helped save.

Bryan Kohberger devoted his life to studying crime. Now, the tables have turned

Bryan Kohberger became a household name upon his 30 December arrest in Pennsylvania for the killings of four University of Idaho students. People from his past - though shocked - build a picture of a bullied loner who could be aggressive; fellow students from his time in Idaho describe a...

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

<modsnip - off topic> I don't agree that the PD will offer a plea deal, especially given some of the victim's families statements.

I have a question re "No insanity plea".

What does it exactly mean?

What if a defendant

(generally speaking, not BK)

suffers from a mental illness?

And during an act of crime this person was conscious of right and wrong,
but the illness caused her/him to commit it?

I ask b/c such a person is usually sent to a psychiatric ward and not to regular prison.

I'm really curious.

 

[Justice101]

I have a question re "No insanity plea".

What does it exactly mean?

What if a defendant

(generally speaking, not BK)

suffers from a mental illness (paranoia, schizophrenia, etc)?

And during an act of crime this person was conscious of right and wrong,
but the illness caused her/him to commit it?

I ask b/c such a person is usually sent to a psychiatric ward and not to regular prison.

I'm really curious.

I thought I saw somewhere that prolonged premeditation and secrecy in planning a crime is a sign of knowing right from wrong and therefore cannot get even an evaluation for the purposes of a defense. Otherwise, everyone would "act crazy" and try to plead insanity. In other words, there are supposedly rules to allowing even an evaluation.

that's my 2 cents

 

[Dotta]

I thought I saw somewhere that prolonged premeditation and secrecy in planning a crime is a sign of knowing right from wrong and therefore cannot get even an evaluation for the purposes of a defense. Otherwise, everyone would "act crazy" and try to please insanity. In other words, there are supposedly rules to allowing even an evaluation.

that's my 2 cents

Hmm
"Prolonged secrecy, premeditation" sometimes are signs of mental disturbances, delusions
(for those who skip meds, for instance).

And "act crazy" is, IMO, impossible when evaluated by experienced psychiatrists.

JMO

 

[Beth11311]

I have a question re "No insanity plea".

What does it exactly mean?

What if a defendant

(generally speaking, not BK)

suffers from a mental illness?

And during an act of crime this person was conscious of right and wrong,
but the illness caused her/him to commit it?

I ask b/c such a person is usually sent to a psychiatric ward and not to regular prison.

I'm really curious.

I’m not educated on Idaho law, but I imagine there must be some sort of provision for those who are truly insane to plead out to? Going to do some research…

 

[NCWatcher]

I thought I saw somewhere that prolonged premeditation and secrecy in planning a crime is a sign of knowing right from wrong and therefore cannot get even an evaluation for the purposes of a defense. Otherwise, everyone would "act crazy" and try to please insanity. In other words, there are supposedly rules to allowing even an evaluation.

that's my 2 cents

Not speaking to this case at all but how could it be known before trial that premeditation and secrecy in planning the crime occurred on the part of the defendant? If that were the rule governing insanity evals it would seem defendants would have to be prejudged (beyond reasonable doubt, not just having the bare amount of evidence needed for charges) to 1) have done the crime & 2) premeditated it. All that would need to be known before trial.

A defendant may have trouble convincing anyone he was insane under certain circumstances such as those you describe, of course.

 

[Idaho transplant]

I have a question re "No insanity plea".

What does it exactly mean?

What if a defendant

(generally speaking, not BK)

suffers from a mental illness?

And during an act of crime this person was conscious of right and wrong,
but the illness caused her/him to commit it?

I ask b/c such a person is usually sent to a psychiatric ward and not to regular prison.

I'm really curious.

A defendant's legal representation can bring up mental health issues that the defendant suffers from and can be introduced into testimony. Professionals can testify to those issues and be considered by the jury.

 

[Montecore1]

I have a question re "No insanity plea".

What does it exactly mean?

What if a defendant

(generally speaking, not BK)

suffers from a mental illness?

And during an act of crime this person was conscious of right and wrong,
but the illness caused her/him to commit it?

I ask b/c such a person is usually sent to a psychiatric ward and not to regular prison.

I'm really curious.

Thats a great question Dotta...I'm very curious about that as well. (for the truly mentally ill or insane criminals)

I’m not educated on Idaho law, but I imagine there must be some sort of provision for those who are truly insane to plead out to? Going to do some research…

Thanks Beth!

 

[Idaho transplant]

Thats a great question Dotta...I'm very curious about that as well. (for the truly mentally ill or insane criminals)

Thanks Beth!

Yes, Beth, there is. See my answer above. Mental illness, yes, it can be considered. Insanity, no.

 

[PrairieWind]

<modsnip - off topic> I don't agree that the PD will offer a plea deal, especially given some of the victim's families statements.

<modsnip - response to snipped post also snipped> It is really a misnomer to say Idaho has no "insanity plea." But it really doesn't matter. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe BK would qualify anyway.

 

[Justice101]

Hmm
"Prolonged secrecy, premeditation" sometimes are signs of mental disturbances, delusions
(for those who skip meds, for instance).

And "act crazy" is, IMO, impossible when evaluated by experienced psychiatrists.

JMO

Agree totally. But some people do not know it is wrong to kill someone and therefore do not attempt to hide it.

Acting crazy is the oldest trick in the books.

 

[Idaho transplant]

<modsnip - off topic

As far as the insanity plea, this is from the Idaho State Journal:Idaho one of only 4 states without a criminal insanity defense

<modsnip - rude?

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I’m not educated on Idaho law, but I imagine there must be some sort of provision for those who are truly insane to plead out to? Going to do some research…

In Idaho, folks who are determine to be mentally incompetent to stand trial are remanded to the custody of Idaho Department of Health & Welfare for treatment until competency is restored.

We saw this recently with Lori Vallow Daybell, who has been returned to competency.

If mental competency to stand trial cannot be restored, charges may be dropped as recently happened with Rene Jaramillo Navarrete. I’m not sure if the article is paywalled, so here’s the Google summary from a couple of days ago:
“A man who allegedly killed his coworker in 2019 is no longer facing charges after the court found him mentally incompetent to stand trial because of a dementia diagnosis.”

HTH & MOO

 

[Dotta]

Agree totally. But some people do not know it is wrong to kill someone and therefore do not attempt to hide it.

Acting crazy is the oldest trick in the books.

I understand

But I followed a story (in my country) of a man who suffered from paranoid delusions - he was sure a member of his family stole money from him (NOT true) so he plotted in secrecy (premeditation) to kill this poor person.
He knew killing is wrong.

Fortunately, his family noted his strange behaviour and he was admitted to mental institution.

But if he had not been caught and killed this unfortunate person - what would happen to him in Idaho?
He was not previously medicated, his delusions started late in life, and he appeared normal.

 

[PrairieWind]

<modsnip - off topic>

As far as the insanity plea, this is from the Idaho State Journal:Idaho one of only 4 states without a criminal insanity defense

Don't write of that which you don't know............

<modsnip - response to snipped post also snipped> "Insanity defenses" are to some degree procedural concepts. Insanity or mental deficiency as a defense has constitutional grounds. I have tried cases in Idaho. Have you?

 

[10ofRods]

I suppose he might have handled the sheath carefully always wearing gloves
but...
Ooops!
The very first day (in the shop?) he excitedly opened it with bare hands.
Only once -
but his DNA happily nestled under the snap.

Provided, of course, that it was he who left it at the crime scene.

Well, this is my imagination again

JMO

But he had to touch gloves to put them on.

Gloves are great at keeping fingerprints off things, not so great at keeping all epithelial cells off things. We shed 500,000,000 a day or thereabouts. He should have worn a respirator, goggles, and surgical hat, shoes, etc and never touched his own clothing except for what was laundered - if he wanted to keep all DNA off his sheath.

You breathe out some epithelial cells, for example. Scientists are currently using breath to attempt to diagnose certain lung diseases quickly and easily - from the epithelial cells emitted in breathing.

A mask will capture some of these cell, so he would have had to mask up each time he looked at his knife - but even then, masks are not 100%. 1% of 500,000,000 daily cells is a lot (and the air around us has our epithelial cells floating around until they settle somewhere).

Most people unconsciously touch their own faces several times an hour - he'd have had to practice his best gloving technique and change gloves frequently. I bet he did not do that. And everyone breathes. I doubt he was wearing a mask while he drove in his car, but perhaps he did.

As the old saying goes, something always leaves with the murderer and something is always left behind.

I bet BK is sitting in his cell wishing he had in fact opened his knife packaging while wearing gloves - he could have diminished the amount. He'd have had to change gloves frequently. DNA is not destroyed by soap, bleach or alcohol, so he couldn't just wipe his gloved fingers with wipes - but it would have helped to do that too, by dispersing some of the cells onto the wipe.

I bet, instead, that he practiced with the knife with his bare hands. He thought he'd be tossing both knife and sheath.

IMO. Speculation, of course.