4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 72

[Deleted member 718]

Consider what other bodily fluids might be on his shoe and also NOT visible when dried (thus latent). We have all assumed it was blood, because of the nature of the crime, but in the act of fighting and dying, perhaps one of the victims' urinated, vomited, cried, etc., which ended up getting on his shoe. I'm just throwing out ideas. It was such violence on their bodies, I don't like talking about it, but it seems realistic to consider things other than blood. JMO.

Per the Dateline Special, there was a party with an estimated 150 guests at 1122 the previous night. Add in all the first responders and a pup, the ISP forensic team might have found that print was the best representation of the perps direction of travel - according to DM. Then again, when was DM questioned? Before or after the second sweep?

 

[Glimma0927]

Banfield and Brian Entin.

He was fired over behavioral problems.
Some students say he gave off weird vibes and they got a creepy feeling from him.
He was a hard grader to the point where a professor had to get involved.
He was grading women differently, rude to women and had a sexist attitude towards women.

I suspect that even though the behavioral issues may be at the root of WSU's desire to end his TA work, they might have needed a reason to terminate him that was more in line with his documented job expectations. There may have been student accounts of behavioral problems that alarmed the faculty, but they might have needed to focus on his unprofessionalism with the professors in order to justify ending his TA work. It pains me to imagine it, but unprofessionalism with professors might be considered more solid proof than behavioral issues around students. JMO, but having worked for bureaucratic state organizations for 15 years, this is how they operate, in my experience.

 

[Boxer]

Now, this is really ridiculous!

At the beginning of the semester students should be given "grading criteria" - meaning:
- the scope/range of material for particular subjects
- what should be learnt for particular grade

How can the students be examined/graded for something they were not taught??

Sorry, but communication between students and teaching staff seemed to fail there.

So, BK thought they knew something when, in reality, they had no idea of it???

Not good, what a mess!

JMO

MOO Sure that guidance was provided. He does not take instruction well and managed to use the limited scope of Zoom interaction to form a relationship with a professor as an exemplary student.
Poster above notes his application to the police was framed as him helping them. A red flag for the attitude of an intern from academia.

Grading students on knowledge of material that was neither in the books, readers or lecture is terrible. GPAs are important to everything for scholarships to grad school acceptance and arbitrarily losing GPA points from an unfair TA is i’m going to create student anguish and complaint.

 

[Dotta]

MOO Sure that guidance was provided. He does not take instruction well and managed to use the limited scope of Zoom interaction to form a relationship with a professor as an exemplary student.
Poster above notes his application to the police was framed as him helping them. A red flag for the attitude of an intern from academia.

Grading students on knowledge of material that was neither in the books, readers or lecture is terrible. GPAs are important to everything for scholarships to grad school acceptance and arbitrarily losing GPA points from an unfair TA is i’m going to create student anguish and complaint.

I might say something unpopular now, but I really blame the professor here.
He left tedious work of grading tests to a person who was completely not fit for this purpose.

The students were victims here - and they are the most important, they trust and pay for quality education.

Instead, they were subjected to twisted, unfair treatment by a person who should have never been given this job.
And it is professor's task to choose the best candidate.
JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

Okay, well, I'm outta ideas.

I will say, I think the dark clothing and shoes would be key pieces of evidence to look for while serving a search warrant, because imo, they laid out their case in the PCA that the man in black, who left the shoe print, is the killer. Jmo.

Or the man in black who left the shoe print was there at the same time as the killings occurred and might be a witness..... nah, I don't believe that, but it would be a fair point IF there was evidence of a second set of prints. I SAID "IF". TO MY KNOWLEDGE NO SUCH THING EXISTS. All my own thoughts.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Regarding whether BK could have continued his doctoral program after being fired from his TA position:

While I agree with those who posted on the "technical merits" of him being able to continue, my limited experience with PhD students is that collegiality is a necessity for success & having your degree conferred.

BK was lacking the main thing he would need to be successful in this program at WSU.

He was toast. Even if he were not arrested for mass murderer, continuing would have been impossible.

You can scrape enough black off his toast to make it palatable! Who would agree to research, collaborate or study with him?

Maybe - maybe - he could have found another specialty or another PhD program somewhere to admit him.

Glad it's a moot point.

MY OPINION ONLY

 

[Ghostwheel]

Now, this is really ridiculous!

At the beginning of the semester students should be given "grading criteria" - meaning:
- the scope/range of material for particular subjects
- what should be learnt for particular grade

How can the students be examined/graded for something they were not taught??

Sorry, but communication between students and teaching staff seemed to fail there.

So, BK thought they knew something when, in reality, they had no idea of it???

Not good, what a mess!

JMO

RBBM for focus. Growing up, this was something I had to learn because I picked up on things faster than most. My mother told me I was "average", so I erroneously believed everyone knew what I did. They didn't, of course, how could they? (Nor did I know some of the things they did, but that's a different story).

My point is that depending on the person, they don't always figure out that just because they know something it doesn't mean others know that same thing. An English major might think "everyone" knows how to construct a sentence properly all the time no matter the medium they are using to construct that sentence. Didn't we all learn that in school? But the truth is not everyone got the same lessons depending on the teacher or school or state or country.

If BK made the assumption that everyone he was grading should know what HE knew in the same class, even though he took his class elsewhere, bad grading ensues. In my experience.

 

[Dotta]

RBBM for focus. Growing up, this was something I had to learn because I picked up on things faster than most. My mother told me I was "average", so I erroneously believed everyone knew what I did. They didn't, of course, how could they? (Nor did I know some of the things they did, but that's a different story).

My point is that depending on the person, they don't always figure out that just because they know something it doesn't mean others know that same thing. An English major might think "everyone" knows how to construct a sentence properly all the time no matter the medium they are using to construct that sentence. Didn't we all learn that in school? But the truth is not everyone got the same lessons depending on the teacher or school or state or country.

If BK made the assumption that everyone he was grading should know what HE knew in the same class, even though he took his class elsewhere, bad grading ensues. In my experience.

I understand.
But this is the difference between a teacher and a random person - the former never assumes, but checks, explains, helps and TEACHES.
And treats students with respect they deserve.

 

[10ofRods]

Several years ago I used to engage in conversations with a professor in a very local university satellite campus. He would tell me about how surprised he was at the spelling and grammar inadequacies of what he was seeing in many of the students' writings, and he marked accordingly, taking such things into account... his point was that he was surprised that these basic skills had not already been ingrained into these uni students. It's quite possible that those same students may have said the exact same things about this professor, since it seemed that not a lot of importance was attached to these basic skills, ie 'he's a very difficult/picky marker', etc. It's possible also, imho, that BK, having come from a different uni in a different state, may have been used to different, perhaps even 'higher' standards, than those at Idaho Uni - perhaps not necessarily based on spelling and grammar, but whatever, and BK was just going on what he had been accustomed to from his previous schools? It's also possible to have a coworker/boss/whatever that one rubs the wrong way, ie personality conflict. Is it possible that type of thing might be considered until we know facts? imo.

I don't think DeSales has higher standards than WSU, at all. BK was in a co-terminal program, meaning he took a bachelor's and master's at the same time, with three years of coursework post-community college to qualify him for the program. So he was basically an undergrad and did not TA. WSU is ranked higher than DeSales, at any rate. IMO.

Most students do not realize just how poorly other students may write. It's pretty bad right now, too, due to the COVID disruptions in education. I think we saw one of the Kohberger-marked papers in MSM, I thought, but I can't find it now (if anyone has that picture, I'd be much obliged).

It's possible that Kohberger had a prof really mark up his papers at DeSales and just thought that's how it was done. If it were only the big red letters on papers (mentioned by one student)

Now, this is really ridiculous!

At the beginning of the semester students should be given "grading criteria" - meaning:
- the scope/range of material for particular subjects
- what should be learnt for particular grade

How can the students be examined/graded for something they were not taught??

Sorry, but communication between students and teaching staff seemed to fail there.

So, BK thought they knew something when, in reality, they had no idea of it???

Not good, what a mess!

JMO

Everyone in the class had the same syllabus, I'm sure. Written by the prof. In it, there had to be learning objectives. Pretty sure WSU is a WASC accredited university - which means WSU syllabi had to have leaning objectives spelled out. This is a list of things the students should know by the end of the course.

Syllabus also lays out whether there were pre-reqs (such as English 101). Here's a sample (from a Criminology 101 class at WSU):

Syllabus 101 Spring 2020.docx - Washington State University Pullman Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology CRM J 101: Introduction to the | Course Hero

View Syllabus 101 Spring 2020.docx from POL_S MISC at Washington State University. Washington State University, Pullman Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology CRM J 101: Introduction to the

www.coursehero.com

Most students - including grad students - are able to figure out from these objectives what the course is aiming for. The assumption is that the student comes in without that learning, and then will learn those things during the course. TA's should be monitoring and grading accordingly. Surely all the TA's have had Crim 101 in the past and should remember what it's like to be a beginner?

IMO. Just speculating. Obviously, BK is not your average TA.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I understand.
But this is the difference between a teacher and a random person - the former never assumes, but checks, explains, helps and TEACHES.
And treats students with respect they deserve.

You had different teachers than I did, then. My teachers were all over the page from incredible to letting the TAs do all the work. just because someone is a Teacher ot TA, it doesn't mean they know how to teach or grade. There is good and bad in EVERY profession, in my experience. I'm glad if your experience was better than mine.

 

[10ofRods]

I might say something unpopular now, but I really blame the professor here.
He left tedious work of grading tests to a person who was completely not fit for this purpose.

The students were victims here - and they are the most important, they trust and pay for quality education.

Instead, they were subjected to twisted, unfair treatment by a person who should have never been given this job.
And it is professor's task to choose the best candidate.
JMO

At my grad school, all of us were assigned to TA in our second year. All of us. And we all got the same course (101) and the prof had to take all of us (often not even being assigned to the section until about 2 months beforehand - whereas we all knew we'd be TA'ing 101 if we were at all paying attention to our orientation, to other grad students, and to general practices on campus.

The TA-ships were, I believe, guaranteed to these grad students and I would bet all of them were assigned to a section of 101 - and it looks like there was only one section last fall.

We had two TA's who got into some trouble in my program, but a prof couldn't just terminate them. Just as at WSU, the prof had to go to his Chair and his Department, and document, document, DOCUMENT (and then attempt to redistribute grading near the end of the course). One of the TA's worked their improvement plan and TA'ed again in the Spring, the other one did not (but he didn't really need to, as he had his own funding from a branch of the US military, which might help explain why he didn't care much about being a good TA).

I don't blame the prof at all. We have two student workers in my department right now - I have absolutely no say over who they are, whether they continue etc. That's not something a prof gets to do. We don't hire or fire.

IMO.

 

[Dotta]

You had different teachers than I did, then. My teachers were all over the page from incredible to letting the TAs do all the work. just because someone is a Teacher ot TA, it doesn't mean they know how to teach or grade. There is good and bad in EVERY profession, in my experience. I'm glad if your experience was better than mine.

Well,
as a teacher myself I NEVER say bad things about teachers haha

Others can do it better

 

[Boxer]

I might say something unpopular now, but I really blame the professor here.
He left tedious work of grading tests to a person who was completely not fit for this purpose.

The students were victims here - and they are the most important, they trust and pay for quality education.

Instead, they were subjected to twisted, unfair treatment by a person who should have never been given this job.
And it is professor's task to choose the best candidate.
JMO

TAs grade, everywhere. The system is unfair IMO, but WSUs
TA-ship’s sound standard. MOO he was many chances to correct hos course, sounds like they bent over backwards to get BK to see what he needed to do.

 

[gremlin444]

IMO:

I thought we learned that was, at least initially, a volunteer position. The article about the woman's fainting incident doesn't mention his role (just that he was asked to go get the AED).

Life in his hands

It was late in the morning on Saturday, Dec. 1 when Pleasant Valley School District monitor Kathleen Piccolo felt that something was wrong. While patrolling the hallways of the high school, she was…

www.poconorecord.com

Well, not a big deal either way. Maybe he always had a part time job to supply spending money, even though we haven't heard much about those jobs. I'm probably making too big a deal out of the "had been working as a security guard" statement (implying he no longer was) in this one (which is also the article where his friend talks about how difficult he became late in high school):

Bryan Kohberger devoted his life to studying crime. Now, the tables have turned

Bryan Kohberger became a household name upon his 30 December arrest in Pennsylvania for the killings of four University of Idaho students. People from his past - though shocked - build a picture of a bullied loner who could be aggressive; fellow students from his time in Idaho describe a...

www.independent.co.uk

JMO.

The fainting incident has him working there as of Dec 2018. A local newspaper article on the school district's board meetings lists him as a security officer and shows him as quitting the security job in July 2021.

Pleasant Valley loses 2 principals | Times News Online

The Pleasant Valley School Board approved the resignations of both the high school and intermediate school principals at its meeting on Thursday night. High school Principal Matthew Triolo and interm...

www.tnonline.com

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Looking at things as one large picture (in hindsight, of course), BK moving to Pullman and getting a new phone number, as a 28 year old student, might be telling. It has the feel of a "fresh start," which there isn't anything inherently wrong with, but seeing how things sort of spiraled for him from there, it makes me wonder why he needed the "fresh start" to begin with, especially with a new number. The confrontation with students and staff, the troubles with his TA job, etc., don't feel as much like triggers as they do yet another signal of how he was functioning. I can't call them triggers to the murders, even though the timing might appear so, because I think the PCA is suggesting that BK started possibly stalking the King RD residence as far back as August 2022, not too long after he arrived. I'm sure there was a compounding effect with it all, but I'm curious. Why did he need a new phone number?

Per the PCA, it specifically mentions that BK's cell phone account was with AT&T. Although the reasons he got a new account and went with AT&T are unknown, maybe AT&T had better coverage in WA, access to "cloud-based" capabilities, and hence is maybe more? or less? "dialed in" (ha ha) compared to other providers for BK's purposes in some way. JMO.

 

[RonSwanson33]

I’m not so sure that BK would be devastated by losing his TA position. I have a feeling his lack of self awareness might lead him to conclude that he did nothing wrong, and the administration was at fault.

IMO he blamed women.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I don't agree that the inclusion of some DM info in the PCA achieved nothing. MOO

It helped establish the inference that the driver of the parked elantra on Queen Street could have been in the house, her sighting of the stranger corroborated the timing of the elantra's departure at 4.20am ((SEe PCA pp 1-10 for details). Her sighting of the stranger provided a description of the stranger that could not exclude the suspect on physical grounds. The info re when she woke and what she heared helped in the establishment of the time line and supported other infernces about the timing of the crimes and when the suspect could have entered the house. (See PCA for details pp-1-10).

I think I get why you have the view that including info from DM in the PCA was a mistake. I don't use social media but have heard about negative speculation and seen some in mainstream press. MOO But again I don't agree.

As you note, people can always misinterpret exactly what they see. MOO. In the same way, people are free to intrepret the PCA. If people are extrapolating from the PCA and then interpretting to make negative judgements about the victim DM, then IMO that is their responsibility. The PCA isn't responsible for their views. MOO

Most importantly to me, the PCA is a sworn affadvit of probable cause. LE/investigators who constructed it should not and cannot be dictated to by any perceived potential of the public (sm, press) to misinterpret and extrapolate negatively. The PCA is for a Judge to decide on an arrest warrant based on probable cause and is not a political document. MOO

EBM: grammar

It's apples and oranges to say DM should not have been mentioned in the PCA. The purpose of the probable cause affidavit, in general, is to get a warrant for a search or an arrest. Law enforcement should include those necessary and sufficient details to get the warrant, period.
If people cherrypick the information included in a PCA that is made public by using it to condemn a witness, then they are abusing the document, the witness and the process by which we are supposed to be safe from "unwarranted search and seizure."

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Please, I have to correct you here. I'm semi-familiar with the search warrant for BK's residence. What it actually says is this, p2 of 4. "

"4. Clothing, including but not limited to dark shirt( s), dark pant (s), mask (s ) , shoes withdiamond pattern sole."

NOT
"'5. limited to dark shirt(s),dark pant(s), mask(s),shoes with diamond pattern sole." as above in your post.

You left out the words "including but not" to in your post and I think that changes the meaning of what the search was limited to and to the premise in your post. I think we need to be careful about indavertently misleading and misinforming. MOO

Fuller quote below.

"...2. Seize, iflocated, evidenceofthe above- listed crimes, including:
1. Blood, or other bodily fluid or human tissue or skin cells , or items with blood or other
bodily fluid or human tissue or skin cells on the items.
2. Knives, sheaths , or other sharp tools , including any dagger , dirk , or sword, and any written
indicia of ownership of same , including sales receipts.
3. Any images, whether digital or on paper or any other format , which show Ethan Chapin ,
Kaylee Goncalves , Xana Kernodle, Madison Mogen and/or
and/ or the house at 1122 King Road , Moscow , ID and/ or the surrounding
neighborhood.
4. Clothing, including but not limited to dark shirt( s), dark pant (s), mask (s ) , shoes withdiamond pattern sole.
5. Trace evidence including DNA from blood or skin cells or other source , footprints ,
fingerprints , hair (whether human or animal/ dog)...."

My copy of Search Warrant and Application for Search Warrant. I checked. Both pages 2/4 in mine and in your cloud document match. They are the same document.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

edited spelling

I see the error you point to all the time as a someone who teaches college kids reading and quotation. People start with the word they want without regard to the full sentence they are clipping. In this case, no one has a need to cut the beginning of the sentence; it's possible that people who have a preconceived notion or light-bulb moment inspiration can spot those words that support their idea and then just run with it.

 

[maskedwoman]

Thank you! I realized you didn't say he was kicked out of the whole program, so apologies I addressed it on your post. I read that in other posts maybe even a few threads back and never had time to respond and never saw anyone else question it, so I ended up going on a tangent.

I agree that being fired would have been devastating for him and he would've felt gutted if he had to tell his family. I suspect he would've been able to get by without ever telling his parents if he took out student loans or had any future opportunities to serve as a paid Research Assistant. Then he could have kept up the TA facade with his family. I've seen several students get in sticky situations and do everything possible to keep their parents from finding out. I feel like the dynamics between his parents and him would be very interesting to know. I get the sense his parents probably did not understand a lot about how PhD programs work and were just proud of him for being in that program, so they may have never suspected or questioned anything if he didn't admit it to them. JMO

You may be quite right about that. They seem like humble, salt of the earth people. He might even be the first generation to go to college. If so, they would be understandably proud of that and hopeful that things were headed in a good direction. I certainly can't fault them for not having a clear idea of how a phd program works. It's certainly quite different than I thought it was.

 

[10ofRods]

Per the Dateline Special, there was a party with an estimated 150 guests at 1122 the previous night. Add in all the first responders and a pup, the ISP forensic team might have found that print was the best representation of the perps direction of travel - according to DM. Then again, when was DM questioned? Before or after the second sweep?

I''m just guessing, but the PCA makes it sound as if they went back with the Amido after they thoroughly questioned DM. They figured that this more sensitive technique would be just the ticket for revealing further latent prints. I would assume they used luminol or similar first, as Amino black isn't usually what's used on a first pass.

So, IMO, it was DM's information that led them to go back with the Amido.