4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 72

[Dotta]

IMO he blamed women.

Nothing new!

And yet the women in his family
(mum, sisters) stand firmly by him.

And another woman defends him in court.

 

[Glimma0927]

It's very hard to think of what other cellular protein-containing liquid it could be. I can't think of any.

Further, I can't imagine that these tireless forensic investigators didn't immediately send a sample to the lab. IMO.

Anything that might have epithelial or endothelial cells in it would have proteins. Urine picks up cells as it leaves the body. Blood serum (no RBCs, WBCs, or platelets present) would have cellular proteins (although I'm not sure how there would be serum present without RBCs, WBCs, or platelets in this case). Saliva, snot, tears also have epithelial cells (but not sure how there would be enough of this to track around the house).

Maybe BK pissed his own pants? He found himself faced with a lot of unplanned elements that night, IMO (M and K sleeping in the same bed, E staying over, Murphy staying over, X up and around until after 4am, Door Dash, etc.), which could have caused him to panic and his bladder to release. If this was his first murder, and it's starting to look like it might have been, there's a lot of miscalculations he was suddenly faced with. His own urine would trickle down his leg and pool at his feet.

 

[10ofRods]

The fainting incident has him working there as of Dec 2018. A local newspaper article on the school district's board meetings lists him as a security officer and shows him as quitting the security job in July 2021.

Pleasant Valley loses 2 principals | Times News Online

The Pleasant Valley School Board approved the resignations of both the high school and intermediate school principals at its meeting on Thursday night. High school Principal Matthew Triolo and interm...

www.tnonline.com

Thank you. So it's possible he had that security guard job for 3 years. I'd assume that means he had healthcare and benefits, as it was a public school. He must have been working full time (as the Board would only report out on a full time hire, IMO) and going to DeSales. Those are pretty much the dates at which he was attending DeSales.

Interesting that even with this relevant employment, he couldn't land either the research job or the internship in Pullman.

It's very eerie that this former security guard apparently said something like "It's okay, I'm here to help you" to XK.

All MOO.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I might say something unpopular now, but I really blame the professor here.
He left tedious work of grading tests to a person who was completely not fit for this purpose.

The students were victims here - and they are the most important, they trust and pay for quality education.

Instead, they were subjected to twisted, unfair treatment by a person who should have never been given this job.
And it is professor's task to choose the best candidate.
JMO

BK had to have had both professional and personal recommendations from people who knew him and worked with BK in the academic environment where he earned his Masters Degree at DeSales in Spring 2022, in order to get into the PhD program at WSU and to get the TA position.
ETA:
"“In my 10 years of teaching, I’ve only recommended two students to a PhD program, and he was one of them,” she said"

“He was one of my best students ever,” said Michelle Bolger, 33, an associate professor at DeSales."
Everything revealed about Bryan Kohberger, suspect in the Idaho college murders, since his arrest

The professor at WSU he was assisting in his first semester of his new PhD program would have taken these recommendations, along with the contents of his application (and maybe an interview), at face value, and would have had no reason to question how "fit" BK would be for TA purposes, IMO.

Once BK was working as a TA with his professor, and there were issues identified with BK's professionalism as a TA, the professor and university had protocols in place to follow up and give him a chance to "improve", he failed to "improve", and he was fired.

MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Nothing new!

And yet the women in his family
(mum, sisters) stand firmly by him.

And another woman defends him in court.

Pretty ironic. MOO

 

[Dotta]

It's very eerie that this former security guard apparently said something like "It's okay, I'm here to help you" to XK.

All MOO.

Yes, isn't it?
It is like a 'learnt phrase'

Automatic, almost involuntary when others panic.
JMO

 

[Deleted member 718]

I''m just guessing, but the PCA makes it sound as if they went back with the Amido after they thoroughly questioned DM. They figured that this more sensitive technique would be just the ticket for revealing further latent prints. I would assume they used luminol or similar first, as Amino black isn't usually what's used on a first pass.

So, IMO, it was DM's information that led them to go back with the Amido.

Hmmm, interesting.

 

[CGray123]

I might say something unpopular now, but I really blame the professor here.
He left tedious work of grading tests to a person who was completely not fit for this purpose.

The students were victims here - and they are the most important, they trust and pay for quality education.

Instead, they were subjected to twisted, unfair treatment by a person who should have never been given this job.
And it is professor's task to choose the best candidate.
JMO

RBBM.

The professor as omniscient hiring authority... do you think this is a realistic expectation? BK came with good credentials and recommendations. He seems to present himself well to professors. What should the professor have done that he didn't do in hiring BK?

Grading student work is a typical TA task. Professors set the assignments and the evaluation rubrics, and train the student - then monitor his performance. It appears that the professor intervened immediately after receiving feedback, took corrective action and gave BK a chance to change as required by University policy

I am not inclined to judge the professor for a bad outcome he had no reason to anticipate. You start your post with the anticipation this might be unpopular. Have you reflected why that might be?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Thank you. So it's possible he had that security guard job for 3 years. I'd assume that means he had healthcare and benefits, as it was a public school. He must have been working full time (as the Board would only report out on a full time hire, IMO) and going to DeSales. Those are pretty much the dates at which he was attending DeSales.

Interesting that even with this relevant employment, he couldn't land either the research job or the internship in Pullman.

It's very eerie that this former security guard apparently said something like "It's okay, I'm here to help you" to XK.

All MOO.

I haven't seen anything in MSM about BK working full time anywhere.

These MSM articles say the security guard work at his former high school was part time:

"At some point more recently, Kohberger returned to his old high school to work as a part-time security guard."

Everything revealed about Bryan Kohberger, suspect in the Idaho college murders, since his arrest

"Bryan Christopher Kohberger had been working as a part-time security officer for Pleasant Valley School District, where his mother was on staff, when a hall monitor – a grandmother – began having trouble breathing and losing consciousness. Security guard Luis Fuentes, according to the Pocono Record, dispatched Mr Kohberger to retrieve the school AED as fellow staffers and emergency personnel attended to their coworker."

Bryan Kohberger devoted his life to studying crime. Now, the tables have turned

 

[pittsburghgirl]

BBM

Well, that seems to sort of be true.
But some doctoral programs won't admit self-pay students. (One concern is that working an outside job may lead to failure in the program. And attrition is bad for the program especially with speciality accreditors.) So if an RA/TA isn't available admission isn't offered.

Regardless, this is a blurb from WSU.

"Teaching/Research
In addition to the course requirements, each student in the Ph.D. program is required to have formal teaching and/or research experience in an institution of higher learning before receiving the Ph.D. degree. Serving as a teaching assistant in the Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology satisfies this teaching requirement. Collecting original data also fulfills this requirement." Doctor of Philosophy in Criminal Justice and Criminology | Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology | Washington State University

Honestly the blurb doesn't make much sense to me. Is it saying it's possible to earn a Ph.D in the Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology WITHOUT collecting original data? Some people on WS made a big deal of the kind of thesis BK did. Personally I thought it was not a big deal. COVID, master's level, not knowing what any other students in the program did...no biggie. But a doctoral degree? Maybe it's saying theoretical dissertations are ok? Or maybe a meta-analysis of existing findings?

Of course, one might be able to argue BK DID serve as a TA. He wasn't fired until after the semester ended and the above blurb doesn't say served "successfully" (nor does it say the collected original data has to be analyzed much less disseminated in any way.) I do wonder what that requirement really means.

JMO

Many academic programs require "residency," that is, the doctoral student must spend at least a year full-time in the program, as a teaching assistant or research assistant. Remember, the general purpose of a doctoral degree is to prepare for a life of research and/or teaching in a specific field. As TAs, people can learn how to teach in the field, getting feedback from mentors if the program is a good one. As research assistants, they learn how to do ethical research. It's like an apprenticeship. The residency is where a program can make judgments about not just a student's intellectual talent but also the student's suitability for teaching or research before writing letters of recommendation.

It's worth noting that many university programs benefit financially from having TAs, who usually teach in general core courses or introductory programs for an undergrad major. This allows full professors a chance to teach grad students and do research.

 

[Dotta]

RBBM.

The professor as omniscient hiring authority... do you think this is a realistic expectation? BK came with good credentials and recommendations. He seems to present himself well to professors. What should the professor have done that he didn't do in hiring BK?

Grading student work is a typical TA task. Professors set the assignments and the evaluation rubrics, and train the student - then monitor his performance. It appears that the professor intervened immediately after receiving feedback, took corrective action and gave BK a chance to change as required by University policy

I am not inclined to judge the professor for a bad outcome he had no reason to anticipate. You start your post with the anticipation this might be unpopular. Have you reflected why that might be?

Oh well
As I come from another country, continent even,
this American system is completely new to me.

So, bear with me
"Cultural differences" are true after all.

 

[10ofRods]

BK had to have had both professional and personal recommendations from people who knew him and worked with BK in the academic environment where he earned his Masters Degree at DeSales in Spring 2022, in order to get into the PhD program at WSU and to get the TA position.
ETA:
"“In my 10 years of teaching, I’ve only recommended two students to a PhD program, and he was one of them,” she said"

“He was one of my best students ever,” said Michelle Bolger, 33, an associate professor at DeSales."
Everything revealed about Bryan Kohberger, suspect in the Idaho college murders, since his arrest

The professor at WSU he was assisting in his first semester of his new PhD program would have taken these recommendations, along with the contents of his application (and maybe an interview), at face value, and would have had no reason to question how "fit" BK would be for TA purposes, IMO.

Once BK was working as a TA with his professor, and there were issues identified with BK's professionalism as a TA, the professor and university had protocols in place to follow up and give him a chance to "improve", he failed to "improve", and he was fired.

MOO

I am assuming that BK is the type who can come across very well in writing. There are many people like that in academia.

There's no way to predict that a grad student is going to seriously lack people skills. BK comes from a cohort of young people who had less experience in on-the-ground classes, for about 2 years. I do wonder if Prof Bolger (who is an expert on quantitative methods in criminology studies) was disappointed that BK couldn't collect the q-naire data and therefore could not do a quantitative project. They change the emphasis of his thesis to narrative (qualitative) work. But did she ever meet him?

No, she did not:

Idaho 'killer' a brilliant student, says his criminology professor

DeSales University Professor Michelle Bolger said she's in absolute shock after hearing that her former student Bryan Kohberger is the accused Idaho quadruple murder suspect.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[10ofRods]

Anything that might have epithelial or endothelial cells in it would have proteins. Urine picks up cells as it leaves the body. Blood serum (no RBCs, WBCs, or platelets present) would have cellular proteins (although I'm not sure how there would be serum present without RBCs, WBCs, or platelets in this case). Saliva, snot, tears also have epithelial cells (but not sure how there would be enough of this to track around the house).

Maybe BK pissed his own pants? He found himself faced with a lot of unplanned elements that night, IMO (M and K sleeping in the same bed, E staying over, Murphy staying over, X up and around until after 4am, Door Dash, etc.), which could have caused him to panic and his bladder to release. If this was his first murder, and it's starting to look like it might have been, there's a lot of miscalculations he was suddenly faced with. His own urine would trickle down his leg and pool at his feet.

Now, that's genius! I mean, it is certainly something to contemplate and I was thinking of only a couple of other fluids. But yes, there could have been urine involved (sadly, not just BK's though). I was thinking saliva, snot and semen, but didn't think of urine.

BTW, there are scholarly articles on Amido black and its success in detecting proteins in urine. Or milk. Or pond water. And there are newer, similar products that are even more sensitive.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Oh well
As I come from another country, continent even,
this American system is completely new to me.

So, bear with me
"Cultural differences" are true after all.

That's right, Dotta, it's great to have you here and to hear diverse perspectives from everyone from all over, 'you just keep lit' & Welcome, if I haven't already said that when you joined and started posting in January I think.

I'm from this country and continent and I have been trying to figure out maybe where that fine line can be found between "red flags", "no way", and "blindsided", as I'm sure everyone involved has, especially the loved ones of Xana, Ethan, Kaylee, and Maggie and LE and their community, and probably the rest of the country and maybe world. MOO

 

[Sachi]

Thank you. So it's possible he had that security guard job for 3 years. I'd assume that means he had healthcare and benefits, as it was a public school. He must have been working full time (as the Board would only report out on a full time hire, IMO) and going to DeSales. Those are pretty much the dates at which he was attending DeSales.

Interesting that even with this relevant employment, he couldn't land either the research job or the internship in Pullman.

It's very eerie that this former security guard apparently said something like "It's okay, I'm here to help you" to XK.

All MOO.

Glad, when he was a security guard at a school , that nothing happened to anyone. MOO

It would be interesting to know why he did not land the Pullman internship. Perhaps, it's nothing but one wonders ..

Those words he said to Xena are right out of a horror film. IMO A monster that did not "just" become one in Idaho that night, seems like fantasy born of his bent humanity, he wanted to say that line before he killed an innocent person. MOO

Remembering Ethan Chapin, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle and Kaylee Goncalves

 

[I wonder]

It's very eerie that this former security guard apparently said something like "It's okay, I'm here to help you" to XK.

All MOO.

That’s unbearable. The stuff of nightmares. It’s psychotic to pretend to help whilst brutally murdering a person. I really struggle with this.

It’s a strange thing to say. I wonder if it’s a phrase from childhood. I would imagine it’s something an abuser would say.

 

[NCWatcher]

Many academic programs require "residency," that is, the doctoral student must spend at least a year full-time in the program, as a teaching assistant or research assistant. Remember, the general purpose of a doctoral degree is to prepare for a life of research and/or teaching in a specific field. As TAs, people can learn how to teach in the field, getting feedback from mentors if the program is a good one. As research assistants, they learn how to do ethical research. It's like an apprenticeship. The residency is where a program can make judgments about not just a student's intellectual talent but also the student's suitability for teaching or research before writing letters of recommendation.

It's worth noting that many university programs benefit financially from having TAs, who usually teach in general core courses or introductory programs for an undergrad major. This allows full professors a chance to teach grad students and do research.

That may be all true. But the blurb I quoted from WSU re: "Teaching and Research" requirements did not seem to be speaking to the notion of residency, a year or otherwise. And residency in many grad programs means a period of full-time enrollment (and sometimes that is a condition imposed by specialty accreditors like APA, ACA, etc.) It does not necessarily mean a year where a student must be awarded a TA or RA (although as I said in an earlier comment, some grad programs will only admit students that can be funded for a reasonable number of years. Starting the program self-funded is out.)

 

[Glimma0927]

Anything that might have epithelial or endothelial cells in it would have proteins. Urine picks up cells as it leaves the body. Blood serum (no RBCs, WBCs, or platelets present) would have cellular proteins (although I'm not sure how there would be serum present without RBCs, WBCs, or platelets in this case). Saliva, snot, tears also have epithelial cells (but not sure how there would be enough of this to track around the house).

Maybe BK pissed his own pants? He found himself faced with a lot of unplanned elements that night, IMO (M and K sleeping in the same bed, E staying over, Murphy staying over, X up and around until after 4am, Door Dash, etc.), which could have caused him to panic and his bladder to release. If this was his first murder, and it's starting to look like it might have been, there's a lot of miscalculations he was suddenly faced with. His own urine would trickle down his leg and pool at his feet.

I think E staying over would have been the biggest miscalculation, so if he didn't know E was there until he went to look for X, that might be another reason why he didn't go after the other roommates. Pissing one's pants after being surprised by E and X defending herself would make a person want to flee the situation as quickly as possible,IMO.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

DBM — question already answered - thanks!

 

[SophieRose]

Tough love from the parents, first and foremost. I too am a teacher and the mother of another teacher and married to a teacher.

Some of BK's friends say he was himself aggressive. If he was bullied, then others felt bullied and afraid of him, as well. He was bullied when overweight and then turned into a rather scary, physical kind of bully himself:

Bryan Kohberger's high school friends say the accused killer was overweight and bullied

Kohberger is charged with the murders of four University of Idaho students. His study of criminology was an attempt "to understand humans and … himself," according to a friend.

www.cbsnews.com

C.A. (a girl whose brother was bullied by BK) says as quoted in that article (actual independent reporting! yay!):

//Arntz says her brother, who was also friends with Kohberger, claims he was bullied by him. "When Bryan would get kinda angry with him, he would gaslight him and get physically aggressive," she said, and added that Kohberger would put her brother in chokeholds. //

So people knew and no action was taken. I believe it's primarily the family's responsibility. Of course there was an anti-bullying "policy" at the school but did he avail himself of it or just turn into one, himself?

He seems exceptional resistant to a school psychologist approach. Of course, not a single school where I live has such a person on staff, but it would be interesting to see if Bryan's PA schools had more services than we do here in California. Schools refer to psychologists (degrees in school psychology do not emphasize treatment; they emphasize testing, diagnosis and referral). I'll try to see if I can find a rich school district that still has one, here in California, to see what their job entails.

School psychologists here do not have a degree in clinical psychology, much less psychiatry (which was much needed here IMO). The degree required is Educational Psych and although a regular Master's in Psychology is also accepted, most of those go to work in highly paid positions for the state or county. Educational psych student are not, IMO, any more capable of dealing with a Bryan Kohberger than his criminology professors - who all have advanced degrees, most of them in psychology and something else. And they didn't notice.

I'm not sure that anyone could have predicted he'd crack in this manner, btw. But he definitely needed someone to orchestrate some help, way back when he was 14-15. Yet, it's clear his parents were taking him to all kinds of doctors (from the TAT posts).

MOO.

There is a YouTube direct interview with C.A.'s brother on Chronicles of Olivia that is informative. He said BK's parents were some of the kindest people he has ever met.

Can't post it since may not be approved but here's the title (spelling is as posted on youtube.)

Chronicles of Olivia
Bryan Khoberger's former friend speaks: Exclusive interview