4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73

[Sister Golden Hair]

I think it means it is a Vans shoe but Vans has many different styles, it was one of those styles.

Shoe print forensics can determine the shoe brand. It was narrowed down to being a Vans style shoe, not a different brand.

imo jmo if that were the case, I would hope they would have written 'a style of vans shoe' so there was no possible misinterpretation, but possibly not. If they did not have the full print, then it could have been harder to say definitely Vans. imo jmo

 

[I'm Nobody]

RE: Gag Order. Forgive me if this is interrupting the Vans topic. I'm a slow typist.

Reread the gag order. Judge Megan Marshall's gag order continues the gag through the whole trial.
"shall remain in full force and effect throughout the entirety of of this case..........."

I understand pre-trial gag orders but limiting outflow of facts during trial seems to create more wild speculation.
Who will that protect? Beginning to understand why the press is objecting.
jmo


"The facts of the trial matter—i.e. whether there will be publicity and whether that publicity would actually prejudice the trial?"

When Silence Isn’t Golden: How Gag Orders Can Evade First Amendment Protections

Trials must be conducted at law, rather than in the press, and courts sometimes feel the need to assert control of the outflow of information around judicial matters to preserve the fair trial rights of litigants.

law.yale.edu

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616227580440608768

 

[Boxer]

imo jmo if that were the case, I would hope they would have written 'a style of vans shoe' so there was no possible misinterpretation, but possibly not. If they did not have the full print, then it could have been harder to say definitely Vans. imo jmo

MOO If they’ve enough to say it’s a diamond pattern they will be able to match to the shoe model.

 

[iamshadow21]

MOO If they’ve enough to say it’s a diamond pattern they will be able to match to the shoe model.

They will.

And just because there's only a single print in the PCA (because it shows directionality and supports and is supported by an eyewitness) doesn't mean there aren't more prints that show the pattern. I think there are dozens of perpetrator prints in that house. Some will be partial, some will be smeared, but some will be clear, with or without staining to make them visible. They may even have some left in dirt or vegetation from before the first blood event.

I have compete trust that they know exactly what the sole of those shoes looks like.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 718]

Would Bryan Kohberger’s murder trial stay in Latah County? What the experts say
BY ANGELA PALERMO UPDATED FEBRUARY 18, 2023 8:31 AM

"Either party, the prosecution or the defense, could file a motion for a change of venue. If granted, the change would transfer the trial to a county away from Moscow, the roughly 26,000-population college town in North Idaho that’s drawn unrelenting attention from national news outlets and true crime enthusiasts in the months since the four students’ deaths.

"As the prosecuting attorney, Thompson said he’s concerned with making sure the prosecution is done in a fair and legal manner. He said professional ethics rules restrict what he can release outside of court because he doesn’t want to create bias in the community. “We have a legal obligation to not do anything to taint the potential jury pool, because when we come to a trial, we need to be able to select jurors who don’t have preconceived opinions of what occurred, jurors who can be fair and impartial and can listen to the evidence in court and make a decision based on the evidence,” he said. “It’s really important to protect the integrity of the criminal process.” But it’s a balancing act. Thompson agreed the public has a right to know what’s going on."

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article272187983.html

 

[WingsOverTX]

RE: Gag Order. Forgive me if this is interrupting the Vans topic. I'm a slow typist.

Reread the gag order. Judge Megan Marshall's gag order continues the gag through the whole trial.
"shall remain in full force and effect throughout the entirety of of this case..........."

I understand pre-trial gag orders but limiting outflow of facts during trial seems to create more wild speculation.
Who will that protect? Beginning to understand why the press is objecting.
jmo


"The facts of the trial matter—i.e. whether there will be publicity and whether that publicity would actually prejudice the trial?"

When Silence Isn’t Golden: How Gag Orders Can Evade First Amendment Protections

Trials must be conducted at law, rather than in the press, and courts sometimes feel the need to assert control of the outflow of information around judicial matters to preserve the fair trial rights of litigants.

law.yale.edu

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616227580440608768

Thanks for pointing that out.

Absolutely ridiculous. Typical criminal court overreach that attempts to protect constitutional rights of the defendant (and victims) to the total exclusion of others (including the public) deserving of more weighty consideration.

This judge is either inexperienced in trials of great public interest or acting out of misguided fear.

Looking forward to adjudication of this gag order overreach, regardless of what the appeals court decides. It needs to be litigated.

JMO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

MOO If they’ve enough to say it’s a diamond pattern they will be able to match to the shoe model.

potentially imo jmo or one of the knock-off brands. if you google, you'll see that there are sites showing how to tell real from fake, and another google will get you to the lawsuit against Walmart for selling knockoffs, so maybe with a full print, they'd be closer to certain. But unless they have the shoes (and based on what we know, they don't), it's an interesting but moot point most likely imo jmo

 

[jepop]

Also they would not want to cut themselves off from collecting any sneaker they found that was close.

Also sadly, these whether Vans or a knock off, are called sneakers for a reason.

Yes, and the search warrant for WA residence allowed for collection of footwear including but not limited to shoes with a diamond pattern. P 1 of 4, emphasis mine.

"...4. Clothing, including but not limited to dark shirt( s), dark pant (s), mask (s ) , shoes with diamond pattern sole"

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

one other point on the footprints - number and clarity - imo jmo if LE had a full print, they could potentially have used forensic methods to approximate the height/weight of the killer from that to support DM's eyewitness account imo jmo. A quick google turns up lots of info, but I'm not sure what I can link. One would assume that full footprint and the height/weight analysis would match up closely to the height/weight of the bushy-eyebrowed killer, and therefore support the PCA and therefore the search warrant, too. Supporting the eyewitness account is the least of the reasons to care about the type of shoe - that's for the search warrant, specifically the 'Vans type' shoe request. imo jmo and ime. but the footprint could - if they had ones - give some real information re the physical attributes of the killer, too. jmo imo.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Yes, and the search warrant for WA residence allowed for collection of footwear including but not limited to shoes with a diamond pattern. P 1 of 4, emphasis mine.

"...4. Clothing, including but not limited to dark shirt( s), dark pant (s), mask (s ) , shoes with diamond pattern sole"

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

Yes, but they couldn't just take all of the shoes. Search warrants and evidence seized can be thrown out if outside the scope of the warrant, and WA state in particular is picky about that. The defense can easily bring a motion if the items seized are outside the scope. tons of case law Washington State Courts - Opinions - Home Page and plenty around motions to suppress. They specially said shoes with diamond pattern because that is directly linked to crime scene. places to be searched, things to be seized, and nexus to crime. it can't just be grab all the shoes and hope for the best. that's imo jmo ime and case law.

 

[jepop]

Does anyone know what kind of car the food delivery car drove?

IMO LE would but haven't released that information to the public.

 

[CGray123]

More re (Possible) Change of Venue (aka Transfer of Trial)?

@CGray123 Excuse me for snipping your post, but I wanted to focus on one issue.
If CoV being granted “means only that the jury pool would be drawn from another county” is ^ post saying that potential jurors from County X would be transported TO Moscow? Then jury selection? Then TRIAL IN MOSCOW?
@CGray123? Anyone? IDK, could be.

In some cases in which a change of venue motion was granted, I recall that the prosecutor, defendant, def atty, witnesses, judge, ct reporter, et al, all went from County Y, where the crime occurred, to County X for the trial.

Regardless of which contingent has to travel, seems cumbersome, esp’ly w distance to. Boise (being discussing here as one poss. new venue)--- 5 hr 41 min (295.1 mi) to Moscow *

But as Daybell trial Judge Boyce wrote in his order “the court must consider the most important factor: that justice will be served. Of tantamount importance to the court is selecting and maintaining a fair and impartial jury throughout a two-and-a-half month trial.” **
Aaand trial of BCK is likely to last for weeks. Imo jmo moo

_________________________________________
* 5 hr 41 min (295.1 mi) via US-95 S and ID-55 S. Moscow to Boise
driving distance moscow id to noise id - Google Search

** I assume (could be wrong), you're referring to Daybell case? I've just skimmed headlines on that case but just came across this.
In Daybell case, in Oct. 2021, ID Sup. Ct.** ordered a transfer from Fremont Co/7th Dist. to Ada Co./4th Dist. and that Judge Boyce remains assigned to the case.
A pdf image of ID Sup Ct’s Oct. 2021 order at link.
https://kslnewsradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COV-Daybell.pdf

"April 28, 2022 - Judge Boyce ... also denied a request from prosecutors to have a jury transported from Ada County to Fremont County for the trial and re-affirms that the trial will happen in Ada County."
** May 2, 2022 Charges against Chad remain; Daybells' trials to be held in Boise
^^^ May not be current, but no way for me to catch up.

My experience is limited to cases in which the judge, prosecutor, defense, defendant and witnesses had to go to the new venue, where the jury was selected and the case was tried. And I must say, changes of venue are rarely granted in part because of the inconvenience imposed on all those participants.

 

[jepop]

IMO, they said it had a diamond pattern, similar to the Vans style shoe sole. They also listed Vans style shoes in the search warrant. The database is extensive and it's my opinion if they knew it was a Vans shoe, they would have said so. It could be a knockoff that isn't in the database, or a partial print. JMO

The search warrant wording:
"...4. Clothing, including but not limited to dark shirt( s), dark pant (s), mask (s ) , shoes with
diamond pattern sole..."

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

 

[CGray123]

Why would the judge wait until the trial starts to rule on a change of venue motion?

IMO they would not. Changing the venue in the middle of jury selection would not be practical, especially if there are speedy trial constraints at play. This issue would be ruled on well before trial. If denied, the motion could be renewed mid-jury selection if there are issues seating enough jurors...IMO

RBBM.

Here's an example of the rationale (including federal and state precedents) of a trial judge who did just that: People v Pankey

 

[al66pine]

Possible New Venue? Again.

My experience is limited to cases in which the judge, prosecutor, defense, defendant and witnesses had to go to the new venue, where the jury was selected and the case was tried. And I must say, changes of venue are rarely granted in part because of the inconvenience imposed on all those participants.

@CGray123. Thank you very much for clarifying your previous post, as your clarification is consistent w my recollection of other cases.

And yes, agreeing that judge granting Change of Venue Motion is not common.
Thx again.

 

[CGray123]

Thanks for pointing that out.

Absolutely ridiculous. Typical criminal court overreach that attempts to protect constitutional rights of the defendant (and victims) to the total exclusion of others (including the public) deserving of more weighty consideration.

This judge is either inexperienced in trials of great public interest or acting out of misguided fear.

Looking forward to adjudication of this gag order overreach, regardless of what the appeals court decides. It needs to be litigated.

JMO

"Gag order" is really a misnomer IMO. The order makes nothing secret. Nothing in the order prevents the press from reporting what is said by attorneys or witnesses in motions, affidavits, or hearings in this case, including the trial. Nothing prevents the parents, their friends, media people, or any third party pontificator, prognosticator, or pundit from commenting on the case.

The only people bound by the order are people who have a legal responsibility not to try to put their thumb on the scale of justice by manipulating public opinion through the media: parties, officers of the court, and their agents.

I don't agree that the public interest is adversely affected by this order, or that it should be seen as overreach. Nor is it the product of judicial inexperience: BOTH PARTIES proposed and stipulated to the order.

The only "public interest" adversely affected by this order is the prurient interest of true crime voyeurs IMO.

 

[Helechawagirl]

IMO LE would but haven't released that information to the public.

The reason I asked was that the odd driving around behavior seems like something a food delivery driver would do when looking for a delivery address. Just wondering if that was a white car too? Idk know how exact LE’s tracking process was. Just a thought. Probably a nothing burger as they say.

 

[jepop]

"Gag order" is really a misnomer IMO. The order makes nothing secret. Nothing in the order prevents the press from reporting what is said by attorneys or witnesses in motions, affidavits, or hearings in this case, including the trial. Nothing prevents the parents, their friends, media people, or any third party pontificator, prognosticator, or pundit from commenting on the case.

The only people bound by the order are people who have a legal responsibility not to try to put their thumb on the scale of justice by manipulating public opinion through the media: parties, officers of the court, and their agents.

I don't agree that the public interest is adversely affected by this order, or that it should be seen as overreach. Nor is it the product of judicial inexperience: BOTH PARTIES proposed and stipulated to the order.

The only "public interest" adversely affected by this order is the prurient interest of true crime voyeurs IMO.

The trial/PH will be reported and covered as per uaual as far as I understand. Those under gag cannot speak out of turn outside the due processes is my understanding.

 

[jepop]

The reason I asked was that the odd driving around behavior seems like something a food delivery driver would do when looking for a delivery address. Just wondering if that was a white car too? Idk know how exact LE’s tracking process was. Just a thought. Probably a nothing burger as they say.

Yes, but IMO LE interviewed the driver as per PCA (see relevant page of PCA) and elimnated him/her and the vehicle very early on. The DD driver identified themselves to LE I believe. LE have no reason to name the driver or expose them to the public IMO.

 

[CityKid]

Speaking of that footprint, I've been wondering for awhile if it was a partial print. "Van's style" makes me wonder how much they got of it. Musing. JMO

Or perhaps the shoe was well worn and only part of the diamond pattern was still intact.