4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73

[technicallymissing]

According to her posts, BK left PA for WSU on June 26, 2022. So that answers one of the questions we had on here which generated quite a bit of discussion.

Perhaps it was a four-day drive, and he moved into this campus apartment on July 1, 2022, or was able to get the key upon arrival, even if it was a day or so earlier.

Not to point out the obvious, but it’s weird the mom got his age wrong (26 instead of the 27 BK would have been in July 2022). I wonder how Coffindaffer confirmed those were his mother’s posts. I suppose she wouldn’t post them if she wasn’t sure but I’m used to taking everything she says with a pile of salt.

 

[Justice101]

According to her posts, BK left PA for WSU on June 26, 2022. So that answers one of the questions we had on here which generated quite a bit of discussion.

Perhaps it was a four-day drive, and he moved into this campus apartment on July 1, 2022, or was able to get the key upon arrival, even if it was a day or so earlier.

This just struck me: When BK's white Elantra was pulled over in Indiana, the video footage DID NOT show a car full of stuff like he was moving back to PA. If he was moving back to PA there would have not been enough room in the trunk and it would have spilled into and filled up the back seat especially with his Dad having his own suitcase. Believe me, I also have an Elantra and the trunks are tiny.

We know the arrest warrant came after his trip to PA and also that he got officially fired from being a TA (and essentially the pHD program) on Dec 30th(?) I think it was.

So, BK was planning on going back to Idaho after Christmas break... so he really had no clue that he was getting canned even though he should have seen the writing on the wall.

Don't know where that leaves us, but just wanted to interject this realization.

 

[iamshadow21]

This just struck me: When BK's white Elantra was pulled over in Indiana, the video footage DID NOT show a car full of stuff like he was moving back to PA. If he was moving back to PA there would have not been enough room in the trunk and it would have spilled into and filled up the back seat especially with his Dad having his own suitcase. Believe me, I also have an Elantra and the trunks are tiny.

We know the arrest warrant came after his trip to PA and also that he got fired from being a TA (and essentially the pHD program) on Dec 30th I think it was.

So, BK was planning on going back to Idaho after Christmas break... so he really had no clue that he was getting canned even though he should have seen the writing on the wall.

Don't know where that leaves us, but just wanted to interject this realization.

That's only if he didn't just walk away from his possessions. For all we know, he took the car because he knew his parents would question leaving that too much, and just mentally wrote off the other stuff. If, that is, he'd privately decided not to go back.

MOO

 

[schooling]

Not to point out the obvious, but it’s weird the mom got his age wrong (26 instead of the 27 BK would have been in July 2022). I wonder how Coffindaffer confirmed those were his mother’s posts. I suppose she wouldn’t post them if she wasn’t sure but I’m used to taking everything she says with a pile of salt.

Screenshots of those messages have been floating around the internet for months and months. Coffindaffer is now just stumbling upon them.

 

[Boxer]

The PDs office defends the accused. In my view they defend who comes to their door, all that wish to plead not guilty whom and those who plead guilty plea they help negotiate so unlike punishment doesn’t get handed down.

CK was in the same legal
category as BK, an accused of a crime and needing state assistance to defend.

Personally, I see no COI. She happened to have been assigned PD that had advanced DP credentials. this wound up meaning her attorney was assigned to take another case
in line with those credentials.

Public defenders serve the citizens of the state by making sure the state’s prosecutors cannot try and convict without resistance, as happens in a sham or mock court, usually in dictatorships such as Russia or Iran.

MOO don’t think the relationship between an individual defendant and a PD supersedes the purpose of public defenders or is a conflict unless the two cases or the accused themselves are connected. A little sad but the whole situation is sad.

 

[Justice101]

That's only if he didn't just walk away from his possessions. For all we know, he took the car because he knew his parents would question leaving that too much, and just mentally wrote off the other stuff. If, that is, he'd privately decided not to go back.

MOO

Good point.

You know at some point, he would have to confess to his parents that he was not going back.. or go back hoping that he had weathered the storm and still had his TA position.

 

[schooling]

If she can't name the source, I don't credit anything Banfield says, if only that "people close to the investigation...and prosecution" may be 6 degrees of separation, may have no actual knowledge or may have an agenda.

Especially when taking into account all of their 'EXCLUSIVE!" nonsense over the last few weeks have all been info seemingly lifted directly off of Moscow's unofficial subreddit (NOT the crime related ones) in the 2 or 3 days following the murder. Some of that info contained PCA info months before the request. But yet mostly unsourced and anonymous. With the most descriptive identifiers being "my friend knows..." "i live two houses down..." "my friend is a neighbor...." "my girlfriend goes to school there...." NewsNation could have certainly reached out via DM with the anonymous posters, its possible, but unlikely IMO. Especially considering that the moscow idaho subreddit banned all gossip and deleted most of it and I don't think journalists are going that far in recovering.

I honestly believe that DailyMail reporting on Xana's Sister in Law's reddit post from the week of the murders made journalists go back and comb over old posts.

There's still one or two shoe's to drop from that batch of early info. The night of and the day of discovery. I bet we'll see that from them too in no time IMO.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Good point.

You know at some point, he would have to confess to his parents that he was not going back.. or go back hoping that he had weathered the storm and still had his TA position.

As of Dec. 20, he was fired from his TA position, though. What did happen between the 20th & the 30th when he was arrested? Did he tell no one? Was he making plans to return to Pullman or not?

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

As of Dec. 20, he was fired from his TA position, though. What did happen between the 20th & the 30th when he was arrested? Did he tell no one? Was he making plans to return to Pullman or not?

JMO

Very good questions. And whatever the answers, the tension had to been thick in BK's psyche.

I'm guessing he took his laptop with him (leaving the tower and fire stick behind, as reported in MSM). It doesn't sound like they found much clothing in the search warrant event (IMO).

I have wondered all along about why in the world BK and his dad drove back to PA for a 3 week break, but supposedly they had planned this road trip prior to the murders. At any rate, it would have been so much simpler just to buy BK a round trip ticket. Was he going to drive back by himself? Leave his car in PA? Since he must have known he really couldn't go back, I figure these were not the main questions he was asking himself.

I figure he was living in some version of severe apprehension/paranoia from Nov 13 onward, and it just got worse. I am not sure about BK's overall abilities to plan and/or anticipate clearly what the future will bring. The mere fact that he put trash in the neighbor's bin is poor planning, since surely he knows people have cameras (and he obviously didn't realize LE was watching him, but surely someone could have seen him?) What could have been so important in that trash for him to do that?

I certainly don't think BK possesses the operational intelligence to pull off a series of major crimes, but I will be very interested to learn if LE has found otherwise.

All speculation on my part.

 

[Deleted member 718]

66,204 views Premiered 18 hours ago
On Nov. 13, 2022, four University of Idaho students were found stabbed to death in an off-campus apartment. Six weeks later, police arrested the suspected killer Bryan Kohberger. Now the families of Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin are trying to heal.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Feb 20, 2023
Madison Mogen was a senior at the University of Idaho when she was killed on Nov. 13, 2022.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Feb 20, 2023
Xana Kernodle was a junior at the University of Idaho when she was killed on Nov. 13, 2022.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Feb 20, 2023
Kaylee Goncalves was a senior at the University of Idaho when she was killed on Nov. 13, 2022 in an off-campus house.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Feb 20, 2023
Ethan Chapin of Conway, Wash. was a student at the University of Idaho when he was killed in an off-campus house on Nov. 13, 2022.

 

[10ofRods]

I don't think BK has any ability to contact MSM directly. Therefore it is 3rd person and therefor considered hearsay.

Notice that when there are inmates talking to the press, it's always directly on site at the prison. Or thru their lawyer... again, thru the lawyer is 3rd person.

Otherwise, you would see a bevy of constant conversations with the press trying to sway public opinion.

All JMO:

Inmates find a variety of ways of communicating with the outside. Their own family members are the main resource.

Inmates do not usually talk directly to the press (although journalists can write to inmates and request to be added to visitor lists - that's fairly common at the longer term jail where I've worked). But inmates talk to their families, who can talk to whomever they please (and do).

Reporters and others know this.

Hearsay is a legal concept, not a journalistic one. Hearsay is limited in court proceedings, but not in the press.

However, IMO, a good journalist gives the context of their anonymous source and doesn't just say "anonymous source" in their report. "Close to the prosecution" is better, but still not enough for me. "Close to the family of one of the victims" would be better if that who it actually is. "Close to the prosecution" cannot, of course, mean another inmate. "Family member of a recently released inmate" would work for me - but "anonymous source" doesn't. I like old school rules of journalism, though.

IMO.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I think it more likely that the whole trial would be moved if it was 300 miles away, rather than jurors coming that far. I have never heard of jurors being chosen from 300 miles away. Not practical it seems like.

I have seen jurors chosen from surrounding Counties who then drive in but definitely not 300 miles away.

I agree. It seems counterintuitive that they would move the trial to get an unbiased jury pool only to use the jurors from the original location.

 

[Cassady]

IMO this case has a couple of perculating legal issues. Just for some background, I was a full-time public defender handling thousands of clients and litigating hundred of cases and issues for the first 7 years of my practice.

1. Public Defenders

The toughest legal job there is and the lowest paying. Thankless work, but there are many outstanding PD's. Indigent defense is different in each state and federally there are full-time PD's and then panel attorneys who handle conflicts and other cases. In this matter, the attorneys handling the defense should be paid more than $200 an hour, but this just shows how indigent defense is a low budget priority, IMO.

2. COI

According to Ashley Banfield the prosecutor is not keen on the current attorney representing the defendant and the judge and defense attorney met in chambers with the judge declaring there is no conflict. However, neither the judge nor the attorney can waive a conflict. Only the impacted client(s) can waive a conflict. If the defendant wants to pursue a not me, some other person ("NMSOP") defense, the most logical avenue to explore is the drug angle and that goes to the victims and/or people near them. If some of the victims and/or their parents were involved in drugs, owed people money, or had been arrested and possibly snitched, these are all viable avenues for the defense to pursue and investigate. How do you do that if you are investigating your former client(s) for the exact thing you represented them for? This is where the potential conflict can arise.

Even if the defendant waived the conflict, he could still come back on appeal and say the waiver was not valid because it was coerced, etc.

Thus, IMO the potential conflict issue will always be there. In my old PD office these facts would have lead to the entire office conflicting out of the case from the get go.

3. Change of Venue

This is an obvious pre-trial motion in this case. Less than 40K people live in the county and over 60% of them live in Moscow. We live less than 400 miles away and over a moutain range, and people here were freaking out and locking windows, etc. It will be interesting to see what data the defense uses in their motion to support the change in venue. I think Ada County and Boise are obvious choices just because of population. Ada county is probably tired of the rural counties sending them their god awful murder cases. Change of venue is an exremely hard motion to win, even in small rural counties, so this will be a very interesting litigation issue.

4. Defense Strategy in Prelim

What evidence will the defense attack, if any, at preliminary? Will this hearing be used for discovery, plea negotiations or the first battle against the state's evidence? This will interesting to watch.

IMO

 

[NCWatcher]

IMO this case has a couple of perculating legal issues. Just for some background, I was a full-time public defender handling thousands of clients and litigating hundred of cases and issues for the first 7 years of my practice.

1. Public Defenders

The toughest legal job there is and the lowest paying. Thankless work, but there are many outstanding PD's. Indigent defense is different in each state and federally there are full-time PD's and then panel attorneys who handle conflicts and other cases. In this matter, the attorneys handling the defense should be paid more than $200 an hour, but this just shows how indigent defense is a low budget priority, IMO.

2. COI

According to Ashley Banfield the prosecutor is not keen on the current attorney representing the defendant and the judge and defense attorney met in chambers with the judge declaring there is no conflict. However, neither the judge nor the attorney can waive a conflict. Only the impacted client(s) can waive a conflict. If the defendant wants to pursue a not me, some other person ("NMSOP") defense, the most logical avenue to explore is the drug angle and that goes to the victims and/or people near them. If some of the victims and/or their parents were involved in drugs, owed people money, or had been arrested and possibly snitched, these are all viable avenues for the defense to pursue and investigate. How do you do that if you are investigating your former client(s) for the exact thing you represented them for? This is where the potential conflict can arise.

Even if the defendant waived the conflict, he could still come back on appeal and say the waiver was not valid because it was coerced, etc.

Thus, IMO the potential conflict issue will always be there. In my old PD office these facts would have lead to the entire office conflicting out of the case from the get go.

3. Change of Venue

This is an obvious pre-trial motion in this case. Less than 40K people live in the county and over 60% of them live in Moscow. We live less than 400 miles away and over a moutain range, and people here were freaking out and locking windows, etc. It will be interesting to see what data the defense uses in their motion to support the change in venue. I think Ada County and Boise are obvious choices just because of population. Ada county is probably tired of the rural counties sending them their god awful murder cases. Change of venue is an exremely hard motion to win, even in small rural counties, so this will be a very interesting litigation issue.

4. Defense Strategy in Prelim

What evidence will the defense attack, if any, at preliminary? Will this hearing be used for discovery, plea negotiations or the first battle against the state's evidence? This will interesting to watch.

IMO

You wrote "...neither the judge nor the attorney can waive a conflict. Only the impacted client(s) can waive a conflict." I may not understand your wording but doesn't there have to be a conflict for it to be waived? Are you saying the judge can't rule there is no conflict? Also there have been claims CK would have to waive for AT to represent BK. But AT is no longer CK's atty. So would she have to waive also?

I get your point about NMSOP. But aren't lots of criminal cases potentially related in a smaller town? Drug cases, receiving stolen property cases, petty theft and so on? Same sorts of relationship issues as CK and BK's cases?

JMO

 

[BlaiseFinlay]

IMO this case has a couple of perculating legal issues. Just for some background, I was a full-time public defender handling thousands of clients and litigating hundred of cases and issues for the first 7 years of my practice.

1. Public Defenders

The toughest legal job there is and the lowest paying. Thankless work, but there are many outstanding PD's. Indigent defense is different in each state and federally there are full-time PD's and then panel attorneys who handle conflicts and other cases. In this matter, the attorneys handling the defense should be paid more than $200 an hour, but this just shows how indigent defense is a low budget priority, IMO.

2. COI

According to Ashley Banfield the prosecutor is not keen on the current attorney representing the defendant and the judge and defense attorney met in chambers with the judge declaring there is no conflict. However, neither the judge nor the attorney can waive a conflict. Only the impacted client(s) can waive a conflict. If the defendant wants to pursue a not me, some other person ("NMSOP") defense, the most logical avenue to explore is the drug angle and that goes to the victims and/or people near them. If some of the victims and/or their parents were involved in drugs, owed people money, or had been arrested and possibly snitched, these are all viable avenues for the defense to pursue and investigate. How do you do that if you are investigating your former client(s) for the exact thing you represented them for? This is where the potential conflict can arise.

Even if the defendant waived the conflict, he could still come back on appeal and say the waiver was not valid because it was coerced, etc.

Thus, IMO the potential conflict issue will always be there. In my old PD office these facts would have lead to the entire office conflicting out of the case from the get go.

3. Change of Venue

This is an obvious pre-trial motion in this case. Less than 40K people live in the county and over 60% of them live in Moscow. We live less than 400 miles away and over a moutain range, and people here were freaking out and locking windows, etc. It will be interesting to see what data the defense uses in their motion to support the change in venue. I think Ada County and Boise are obvious choices just because of population. Ada county is probably tired of the rural counties sending them their god awful murder cases. Change of venue is an exremely hard motion to win, even in small rural counties, so this will be a very interesting litigation issue.

4. Defense Strategy in Prelim

What evidence will the defense attack, if any, at preliminary? Will this hearing be used for discovery, plea negotiations or the first battle against the state's evidence? This will interesting to watch.

IMO

Exactly my thoughts on the conflict issue. I don't think it's quite as open-and-shut of a legal issue as many have stated.

 

[EyeCandy]

I am in a small town. I worked for one of our two public defenders. It would be HARD not to have rep'd someone in someone's family.