4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73

[Deleted member 718]

I think this website is where we might see the Pennsylvania Commonwealth search warrant release. Maybe this coming Monday.

Commonwealth v. Kohberger 682 MD 2022 | Cases of Public Interest | News & Statistics | Unified Judicial System of Pennsylvania

(My highlighting)

 

[Boxer]

I feel torn about demolishing the house. It is such a confusing floor plan that it seems it would be helpful for jurists to walk though and be able to follow the speculated movements of the murderer. I admit, after all my exposure to the plans and videos of the inside of the house - I am still easily confused. It's not like the layout of the house is your typical one story ranch in which a person's paths would be an easy flow to follow.
A walk-through of the house would help tactile learners, like me, who learn best by doing, not just by reading, seeing, or hearing - and all those on the jury might benefit by this.
I can understand the town's, college's, and city's desire to remove the morbid reminder - but at what cost? The preservation and protection of all other evidence has been a priority to protect the integrity of a fair trial; it seems like this would rank right up there with any other evidence.
Tactile learners, like me, learn best by doing, not just by reading, seeing, or hearing.

True. But it is private property. Though I guess it’s gone into the public domain with the U of Idaho.
Would the defense not be the party to try and retain till trial?

 

[Sundog]

True. But it is private property. Though I guess it’s gone into the public domain with the U of Idaho.
Would the defense not be the party to try and retain till trial?

It depends on whether the University of Idaho now owns the house, or the University of Idaho Foundation. If it is the latter, then it is likely private property. Universities accept donations both ways.

 

[Sundog]

Congrats to mom and dad, and the proud grandparents holding Theodora MaddieKay. New life. Regardless of the circumstances, such joy for the family.

 

[I'm Nobody]

RE: Jury walk-thru 1122 King Rd.
While a jury walk-through of a crime scene would work for me, I'm an old-lady sleuth not into much of today's technology. My grand on the other hand, Engineering RA in 3D printing, would much rather see the 3D models. Brian Entin reported 3D crew had been there and I'm glad to hear that. 3D technology is absolutely mind-blowing; some of Grand's work reminds me of video games (complete w figures walking thru buildings). Millennials, Gen XorY's, BK peers will undoubtedly understand the technology of this case much better than I do.

As far as demolishing the house, I need to know why the jury needs to walk-through. Can photos & technology provide same info? If for shock value or part of death-penalty justification, be straight up about reasons to use it. My guess is the reason would be "sealed" too. A walk-through did not result in unanimous death decision in Parkland shooter case (9pro/3); killer was sentenced to life-without-parole rather than the death penalty.

Back to my puzzle of what's in sealed Exhibit "A".
jmo

Parkland shooter jury walk-thru. Interesting thoughts and of course controversy.

Parkland gunman jurors visit still-bloodstained school building as death penalty decision looms

Jurors aren't allowed to converse with each other - when they retrace the path Cruz followed on Feb. 14, 2018.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[10ofRods]

True. But it is private property. Though I guess it’s gone into the public domain with the U of Idaho.
Would the defense not be the party to try and retain till trial?

I thought the house was owned by a person or persons in Colorado. It is on private property near U of Idaho, but I didn't think U of I owned that neighborhood. I could be wrong.

The defense did file papers to stop the cleaning of the house, but perhaps they feel they are done with it. I personally do not think a judge will allow a jury to go to the house and just walk around it. Only parts of the house are murder scenes, there are pictures and reconstructions. I say this because each juror would see different things and those things could not be reproduced as evidence in the jury room.

It depends on whether the University of Idaho now owns the house, or the University of Idaho Foundation. If it is the latter, then it is likely private property. Universities accept donations both ways.

Property management to begin cleanup of Moscow house where U of I students were killed

Nearly seven weeks after four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in a house on King Road in Moscow, property managers will begin cleaning up at the scene.

www.spokesman.com

The house has been owned since 2009 by an LLC out of Colorado.

It was never owned by U of I, as far as I know - which is part of the reason it was a "party house." University property is subject to university rules. A permit is needed to dispense alcohol on campus (and for a while, the sororities and fraternities imposed a moratorium on alcohol in those houses). I think that's over now - but at the time, it must have driven more people to "party houses" in the little neighborhood next to the university. Taylor Avenue seems to mark the boundary between campus and that neighborhood, according to Google maps.

But off campus housing is private and the residents may conduct themselves according to local law and not University rules. Naturally, it's still illegal to provide alcohol to minors, but I think in the dorms, there are way more restrictions than in the Greek houses - and easier still to party off campus.

IMO.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

@10ofRods According to this tweet by Brian Entin, the owner is giving the house to the university.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1629170517369298945

 

[Cool Cats]

I feel torn about demolishing the house. It is such a confusing floor plan that it seems it would be helpful for jurists to walk though and be able to follow the speculated movements of the murderer. I admit, after all my exposure to the plans and videos of the inside of the house - I am still easily confused. It's not like the layout of the house is your typical one story ranch in which a person's paths would be an easy flow to follow.
A walk-through of the house would help tactile learners, like me, who learn best by doing, not just by reading, seeing, or hearing - and all those on the jury might benefit by this.
I can understand the town's, college's, and city's desire to remove the morbid reminder - but at what cost? The preservation and protection of all other evidence has been a priority to protect the integrity of a fair trial; it seems like this would rank right up there with any other evidence.
Tactile learners, like me, learn best by doing, not just by reading, seeing, or hearing.

This is why it is a confusing floor plan:

The house originally had two floors, but an owner requested to add the lowest floor in 2000, according to Moscow city permits. Built into a hillside, the house has one exterior door on each floor.

Usually when you add on a floor it is a top floor, not the lowest floor!

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270073457.html

 

[Nova]

I just want them to be really really careful to get this right. Not having possible evidence available any longer just makes me nervous. I'm bad about "borrowing trouble". Ha!

I feel confident the university will have thoroughly discussed any razing of the crime scene with the prosecution (and probably the defense as well) before the building comes down. The U of I won't want the bad press of interfering with justice.

 

[Nova]

I am really interested in learning the coroner's time of death for each victim and how it was determined. JMO

Why so? Isn't it clear they were all attacked within a 20-minute time span?

If it took a short time longer for some to bleed out, I doubt the coroner could tell when s/he got the bodies the following day. I don't think body temps, etc., are that precise as indicators!

If it took a long time--a few to several or more hours--for one or more to die, what would that tell us? Would it change the times of attack in any way?

I'm honestly interested in your thinking on this.

 

[Nova]

I really think there's a lot more to the story. I'm not sure what, but there's definitely more. I wondered if there could be an accomplice out there....

BK couldn't even get his neighbors to join him for a beer. I have trouble imagining how he would have corralled an accomplice...

(Obviously I can't know for sure, Sleuther. Some very odd fellows have managed to collaborate on crimes in the past.)

 

[al66pine]

“Jury View” of Premises in ID. Conducted in Silence?

... jury toured the crime scene,... normally conducted in silence, since the jurors aren't supposed to be discussing the case yet, not even with one another.

snipped for focus @Nova Thanks for your response. Agreeing, imo & ime, that jury views are conducted in silence.

I think you understood that my earlier post was saying ---
A jury view of the house would not be conducted the way that one or more posters theorized--- the prosecutor or def. atty could stand there at the house w jury present and say: Look at this doorway/hall/room/what-ev, which shows yadda yadda.

Perhaps the first sentence* of my earlier post referring to fictitious trials should have explicitly said --- that kind of stuff is (virtually always) TV FICTION.

A jury view of house in this ID. case would also be conducted in silence, per statute quoted & linked in my earlier post.* Well, now, looks like no house will be intact for jury to view.
Imo jmo
________________________________________
* 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73
** ICA 19-2124, page 5 of 8 at link.
"VIEW OF PREMISES BY JURY....and the sheriff must be sworn to suffer no person to speak or communicate with the jury, nor to do so himself, on any subject connected with the trial..." sbm

Section 19-2124 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

 

[Boxer]

BK couldn't even get his neighbors to join him for a beer. I have trouble imagining how he would have corralled an accomplice...

(Obviously I can't know for sure, Sleuther. Some very odd fellows have managed to collaborate on crimes in the past.)

MOO possibly an online abettor.

 

[Nova]

“Jury View” of Premises in ID. Conducted in Silence?

snipped for focus @Nova Thanks for your response. Agreeing, imo & ime, that jury views are conducted in silence.

I think you understood that my earlier post was saying ---
A jury view of the house would not be conducted the way that one or more posters theorized--- the prosecutor or def. atty could stand there at the house w jury present and say: Look at this doorway/hall/room/what-ev, which shows yadda yadda.

Perhaps the first sentence* of my earlier post referring to fictitious trials should have explicitly said --- that kind of stuff is (virtually always) TV FICTION.

A jury view of house in this ID. case would also be conducted in silence, per statute quoted & linked in my earlier post.* Well, now, looks like no house will be intact for jury to view.
Imo jmo
________________________________________
* 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73
** ICA 19-2124, page 5 of 8 at link.
"VIEW OF PREMISES BY JURY....and the sheriff must be sworn to suffer no person to speak or communicate with the jury, nor to do so himself, on any subject connected with the trial..." sbm

Section 19-2124 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Thank you for the statutory info. If my reply was redundant, it certainly wasn't because your post was unclear.

I'm afraid I was engaging with my own memory of walk-throughs I've seen on true crime shows, not responding thoughtfully to what you had already posted. I see now that you had already produced the same thought AND with a citation!

 

[Nova]

MOO possibly an online abettor.

I know you're not the only poster here who is pondering the possibility of an accomplice. I haven't seen any evidence that suggests a second assailant to me, but that may just be a failure of imagination on my part.

What are you thinking? Did they drive together, and if so, how did the second killer not show up on security footage? Did they drive separately, and, if so, how did they coordinate their arrivals with BK's phone turned off?

We know there were two victims on the top floor and two victims plus a witness on the middle floor. Do you envision there being room for two attackers in the same spaces at the same time, or is there some way an accomplice might have participated without entering the murder house?

 

[Dotta]

Dbm

 

[Nova]

DBM.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Re accomplice, I don't have any reason to think BK had an accomplice but if he did, surely he would have got to know someone through the most obvious route - his questionnaires for serious criminals.

 

[schooling]

The accomplice angle is being pushed by an especially dark website, with fake sources and an agenda to muck up this case. IMO

Not saying that’s the intention here. But be careful where you get your info folks.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The accomplice angle is being pushed by an especially dark website, with fake sources and an agenda to muck up this case. IMO

Not saying that’s the intention here. But be careful where you get your info folks.

I don't think anyone here is saying there had to have been an accomplice or anyone here has seen evidence of one. We're just speculating. In my case, I was speculating based on the line that the documents contain statements or facts that may endanger the life of an individual. DM as witness is already out in the open, so what else is there? And with BK behind bars, how would it endanger the life of an individual? Due to public sleuthers, maybe. But maybe there's someone else out there, maybe someone who didn't participate in the murders but found out after the fact or maybe there's someone BK had confided in before committing the murders. I don't know, just speculation.

Bottom line is, there's a lot we don't know and I think we're all going to be somewhat surprised when all the evidence is revealed. MOO.