4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

[Ghostwheel]

@Ghostwheel I saw the vintage Taylor knife last evening on eBay. It's a nice piece. The image of the sheath clearly shows an open snap.

I suppose my post was about cutlery. Normally when I think cutlery I think kitchen cutlery. I don't think specialty handmade knives, some of which were for various military use. I had no idea about or how popular the vintage Taylor Cutlery specialty knives are with collectors.

 

[ktm44]

Cleaned it and then never touched it again despite having taken it in his car, into the house, then taken the knife out of it, how his fibres and DNA weren't all over it? That's all I'm confused about.

Also, not trying to build BK into a hollywood villain, just trying to wonder how someone who maybe meticulously planned a crime to leave no evidence then left the sheath which is pretty stoopid. It's somewhat at odds. I know it's been discussed plenty before.

We actually don’t know what else was found on the sheath since the PVA only addresses the DNA connected to BK, who they were seeking to arrest.

It could also be said that someone may have believed they thoroughly cleaned the sheath before handling it with gloves.

I believe he felt he had a plan but I don’t think he expected to encounter 2 people in both rooms or anyone awake.

 

[10ofRods]

MOO I would say he thought he cleaned it like all his gear, but the snap area grabbed a bit of TDNA and retained it.

Thank you for this thoughtful post.

It's a good time to mention that you cannot clean so well that you remove all of your own DNA from what you're cleaning. Even with gloves.

We exhale DNA with every breath. I suppose he could have gotten in a space suit (but how would he do that without touching said space suit?) He'd have needed a respirator mask. No witness has said he was wearing a respirator mask that night (it would have been obvious).

It doesn't matter how well BK thinks he cleaned something. When he put the gloves on, there's no way they were completely devoid of DNA on the outside. The fact is, though, he probably thought about cleaning the knife itself, but did not remember to attempt to clean the DNA from the snap every time he used it. But if he had, the likelihood of him removing all of it from the grooved area around the snap is virtually zero. DNA persists a long time and is very very small.

So not only did he touch the snap without enough protection (or just breathed on it), he's the only one who touched it/breathed on it. Makes me think he took it out of the packaging himself. The snap was likely machine installed and while some worker somewhere touched the knife, for sure, it's possible that only 1-2 gloved workers ever touched the outside of the sheath (and not the snap). If they do find other human DNA on the knife, I predict it will align with someone of Mexican descent, which is where the sheaths are made, IIRC. The defense will make a big deal of that, I suppose, but as we've seen in the Murdaugh trial, juries are smart enough to figure out what's going on.

IMO.

As it happened, the murders occurred in a span of no more than about 15 minutes. Two young ladies were spared. Four individuals weren't.

IMO he didn't come to kill everybody.

I think K was incidental. He didn't expect her, certainly didn't expect her in the same room.

I think X and E were purely reactionary.

I think this was targeted.

The Elantra would eventually have done him in, but just think how swiftly and precisely he might've accomplished a single murder. In and out in minutes.

That might have been part of the thrill. The challenge of it. The stealth. The invasion. The power.

One murder. Little sound, no need to set the sheath down at all. In and out without a sound, the sleepers solidly undisturbed.

Planned but planned poorly. Forgot to factor for human dynamics. Other people skew the equation.

I'll bet he sped out of there talking to himself, narrating what just happened and spooling in his head whaddoido whaddoido whaddoido.

Probably showered for three straight hours.

All born of some rage-fueled, perceived-injustice-avenging, gross entitlement mission --

The same kind of ill-logic that results in an innocent person shoved off a train platform or school shootings or or or...

Tragic as this crime is, it's a credit to advances in DNA and CCTV, there's been an arrest and -- let's hope -- a conviction. Thirty years ago, he might've remained a free man, to kill again. No criminal mastermind. Just a criminal. Like them all.

It's devastating that these four beautiful souls are gone -- all that potential stolen.



JMO

I'm going to add some grim details, since I very much think you are on the right track.

If he came to rape or kill MM, and KG heard and intervene (thereby ending up "in the same bed") then things had already gone awry. But, the main thing for BK (if this was his first kill) was that now he had successfully killed two people. The method of killing described by SG ( Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves had ‘big open gouges,’ dad reveals as he calls cops ‘cowards’ ) worked.

BK had just learned that the method he used on KG and probably also MM actually did silence the two women and made them bleed out into the mattress with very little blood on the floor, until it pooled under the bed - later. He was hoping for just this effect (I do not believe he came to rape, primarily).

But now what? XK is awake and moving around, not in bed. EC is still in bed. He has to devise a plan modification. He manages to get EC in bed but XK is still awake, crying, whimpering, probably already wounded. Not going to plan. He kills her (but ends up with blood on at least one foot).

I totally agree with you about how he jetted out of there, talking to himself, perhaps scolding himself for not planning for every contingency. He forgot to factor in the human dynamics, but also his visceral reaction to death and murder.

In no way do I believe that all killers have a visceral reaction; but I believe Bryan Kohberger did. So he takes the looong way home (and does the same loop the next day - which is weird, but also speaks to a lack of ability to get outside his own head).

He did a very poor job "planning" this crime; he had been fantasizing such things for a long time; his equilibrium was completely demolished by real life (real grad school; real adulting; no parental supervision; no friends with whom to discuss anything; unmet sexual needs/desires; his own inner pathologies).

He thought he did a good job planning (just like with his master's degree or his grading scheme). He did not do a good job.

IMO.

 

[jepop]

Thanks for this Order to Redact and unseal the COI hearing! I missed it.

So it looks like all the factual speculation supporting the COI speculation is untrue. The court accepted AT's factual representations as an officer of the court that she was on the CK cases solely as the head of office, that she did not personally meet with or advise CK, that she consulted with ethics counsel and that they support her her professional opinion that there is no conflict. The only person to whom she has a fiduciary duty of loyalty is BK. BK also accepted those representations said he wanted AT to continue as his attorney.

Hope the hooha about this is done and dusted.

I've thought (surmised/speculated) from the time a potential COI issue was raised in the media that the Public Defender's Office would, as a matter of course, have addressed any conflict of interest issues with the utmost care, following both ethical and procedural protocols. MOO - these redacted unsealed meeting minutes from the Court confirm, to my mind, that the matter was addressed appropriately and in a timely manner back at the end of December last year IMO. MOO

I did not like that in late January MSM found it necessary to publicly report on (3) of the victims' parents (who are also victims of these terrible crimes), directing the general public to their court records and choosing to name them (see below for source). Perhaps (speculating) one parent CN (CK) (a victim) was encouraged or invited to an interview with Banfield. IMO it really isn't clear how it was that that parent (victim) ended up being interviewed. MOO. But it appears to me that the other parents (victims) did not have a choice when MSM published their names after going through court records (sources below).

For anyone reading who is interested and/or unfamiliar with the COI matter as raised by MSM, I'm attaching a couple of links to posts in a thread where the COI issue was discussed here at WS. There are three MSM sources in the links. I hope this will suffice as links for my post here.

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

I'm back at school myself and haven't had a chance to post or comment, and I've tried keeping up with the threads and posts. JMO, If guilty, etc., I am just interested in anyone else's thoughts on BK committing multiple murders as part of research for his thesis. I have suggested this before...

www.websleuths.com

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

You're right. There's no other way someone in CN's impossible position would feel. It's understandable that other members of the public feel uncomfortable with this, too. It would be helpful if the Idaho PD could explain its decisions, but the essential details are client confidences in both...

www.websleuths.com

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Wait a sec. LE identified a single source of BK's DNA on the sheath. That doesn't mean it was the only DNA on the sheath. Only that they identified a single source of his DNA out of a mixture of however many other DNA sources were there.

"The Idaho state lab later located a single source of male DNA (suspect Profile) left on the button snap of the knife sheath."

Both of these posts argue that the officer's statement of a "single source of male DNA (suspect's profile)" does not preclude that there was a mixture and/or more DNA that didn't match the suspect. The affidavit does not include a lab report and it is written in plain English and I think it should be taken at face value. The officer knows the lab report is not going to be kept secret and any misleading language or deliberate failure to disclose other possible suspect DNA in the warrant application, elimination of other possible suspects, etc., could cause great harm to the case with a claim of a rush to judgment. I would think the judge that read the affidavit also thought it meant that only BK's DNA was found on the snap.

"Based on the above information, I am requesting an arrest warrant be issued for Bryan C. Kohberger"

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I posted this information several days ago and here is a more recent report. Apologies if already seen by all, but I do keep seeing posts that make me think it is not common knowledge. The first article I linked explained that the Pennsylvania judge was not satisfied with this DNA information and it was then that the garbage DNA was retrieved. Since the warrant was based on that DNA, there was no need to mention the other research. MOO

How a family tree and DNA identified Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger

How a family tree and DNA identified Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger

How a family tree and DNA identified Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger

www.yahoo.com

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Monroe County First Assistant Michael Mancuso says, "Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dresssd in shorts and a shirt a wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate zip lock baggies."

Monroe County Officials Share New Details About Idaho Murder Suspect's Arrest

The Monroe County District Attorney’s office sheds light on the Idaho murder suspect’s arrest after a search warrant is released. We’re learning more about the investigation of the Chestnuthill...

www.brctv13.com

 

[WingsOverTX]

I've thought (surmised/speculated) from the time a potential COI issue was raised in the media that the Public Defender's Office would, as a matter of course, have addressed any conflict of interest issues with the utmost care, following both ethical and procedural protocols. MOO - these redacted unsealed meeting minutes from the Court confirm, to my mind, that the matter was addressed appropriately and in a timely manner back at the end of December last year IMO. MOO

I did not like that in late January MSM found it necessary to publicly report on (3) of the victims' parents (who are also victims of these terrible crimes), directing the general public to their court records and choosing to name them (see below for source). Perhaps (speculating) one parent CN (CK) (a victim) was encouraged or invited to an interview with Banfield. IMO it really isn't clear how it was that that parent (victim) ended up being interviewed. MOO. But it appears to me that the other parents (victims) did not have a choice when MSM published their names after going through court records (sources below).

For anyone reading who is interested and/or unfamiliar with the COI matter as raised by MSM, I'm attaching a couple of links to posts in a thread where the COI issue was discussed here at WS. There are three MSM sources in the links. I hope this will suffice as links for my post here.

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

I'm back at school myself and haven't had a chance to post or comment, and I've tried keeping up with the threads and posts. JMO, If guilty, etc., I am just interested in anyone else's thoughts on BK committing multiple murders as part of research for his thesis. I have suggested this before...

www.websleuths.com

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

You're right. There's no other way someone in CN's impossible position would feel. It's understandable that other members of the public feel uncomfortable with this, too. It would be helpful if the Idaho PD could explain its decisions, but the essential details are client confidences in both...

www.websleuths.com

Arrests/convictions of two parents & one step-parent are public records in Kootenai County. Their cases were handled by public defenders supervised by AT, chief PD. It is unfortunate as victims of these crimes that they became media fodder. Not unusual to have coverage like this in a high interest case nor is it a black eye on the media IMO.

I'm not convinced the COI matter was handled "appropriately" unless your meaning is the judge held a hearing to address the matter & made a decision (that BK agreed with) to keep AT as his (potential death penalty) PD. Whether the correct decision was made is yet to be seen.

If convicted, BK might use it as a matter of appeal unless he waived his right to do that. Maybe he did but I haven't seen documents verifying that.

MOOing

 

[WingsOverTX]

Monroe County First Assistant Michael Mancuso says, "Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dresssd in shorts and a shirt a wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate zip lock baggies."

Monroe County Officials Share New Details About Idaho Murder Suspect's Arrest

The Monroe County District Attorney’s office sheds light on the Idaho murder suspect’s arrest after a search warrant is released. We’re learning more about the investigation of the Chestnuthill...

www.brctv13.com

More from the article:
But we’re told these actions speak for themselves.
Mancuso says, "It could very explain some of the other aspects of the case from Idaho, some of the lengths that a person would go to to avoid having their DNA left behind when they know or should’ve known that there was an investigation underway."

 I think he feared the sheath gave him away. Little did he know, no amount of glove wearing or sorting of trash in the wee hours would protect him.

Another documentation of his night owl behavior. When did BK sleep? How long-term was his diurnal pattern? It's unusual unless he is an insomniac.

MOO

 

[Nova]

Snipped for focus.

It was in the PCA that the sheath was laying on the bed next to Maddie....

View attachment 407157

Thank you so much, Gemmie! Your memory is better than mine!

I agree with the rest of your post as well. I think MM was BK's target. (Of course, this is speculation on my part.)

 

[Nova]

Yes, it is a leap. This part was trying to see if the suspect could have gotten out of the house "safely" before or after being on the 3rd floor without harming Xana or Ethan. And considering the lay out of the house, I believe they had a decent to good chance of getting out if they'd decided to do so....

But we haven't even factored in whatever noise the upper floor occupants (plus Murphy) were able to make before they expired. From the intruder's p.o.v., he may have assumed that others would be coming up to the top floor to check or complain about the noise. If so, waiting for the middle floor residents/guest to go back to their rooms may not have seemed a viable option.

 

[Nova]

I see what you mean! At first I thought the C and S were parentheses too. Look at the other c's and s's just surroounding that line about the ID cards. Many of them look like parentheses. MOO
View attachment 407151

....

Thank you for that image. I was able to enlarge it further than I could with previous copies.

Now that I can blow it up, I think "ID (USD)" is less likely than "ID (uni)" or "ID (univ)" (the latter badly scribbled). I expect BK had at least one if not more uni IDs in his room.

 

[Nova]

Cleaned it and then never touched it again despite having taken it in his car, into the house, then taken the knife out of it, how his fibres and DNA weren't all over it? That's all I'm confused about.

Also, not trying to build BK into a hollywood villain, just trying to wonder how someone who maybe meticulously planned a crime to leave no evidence then left the sheath which is pretty stoopid. It's somewhat at odds. I know it's been discussed plenty before.

It is at odds, but I can't even imagine the amount of adrenaline and other hormones a killer must produce to gear up to such a violent and messily personal murder! I should think the killing would be quite distracting, but I really have no comparable experience with which to judge.

 

[I'm Nobody]

Monroe County First Assistant Michael Mancuso says, "Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dresssd in shorts and a shirt a wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate zip lock baggies."

Monroe County Officials Share New Details About Idaho Murder Suspect's Arrest

The Monroe County District Attorney’s office sheds light on the Idaho murder suspect’s arrest after a search warrant is released. We’re learning more about the investigation of the Chestnuthill...

www.brctv13.com

Thanks @NoSpoonFeeding! A little thing called consciousness of guilt?


jmo

 

[Nova]

Arrests/convictions of two parents & one step-parent are public records in Kootenai County. Their cases were handled by public defenders supervised by AT, chief PD. It is unfortunate as victims of these crimes that they became media fodder. Not unusual to have coverage like this in a high interest case nor is it a black eye on the media IMO.

I'm not convinced the COI matter was handled "appropriately" unless your meaning is the judge held a hearing to address the matter & made a decision (that BK agreed with) to keep AT as his (potential death penalty) PD. Whether the correct decision was made is yet to be seen.

If convicted, BK might use it as a matter of appeal unless he waived his right to do that. Maybe he did but I haven't seen documents verifying that.

MOOing

What would you consider "appropriate" handling of the COI matter?

As I understand it, the only relevant issue is whether the defendant waived any claim of conflict. Apparently, BK did so.

I know the media pushed Xana's mom to complain about AT's supposed "betrayal", but there is no constitutional right to the free lawyer of your choosing. [ETA X's mom has my complete sympathy; I am not mocking her for needing a public defender. In her shoes, I would need a "free lawyer", too.]

Could BK after a conviction claim that his waiver of COI had been manipulated? Probably; appellants claim all sorts of things. Nearly all convicted murderers claim some sort of incompetence of counsel--often with the approval and aid of the lawyer being called incompetent! It remains rare that such appeals succeed.

 

[DeDee]

From pg 5 of the PC

He was wearing a mask that covered his nose and mouth face. Black masks were found with BK in PA.
DM described the figure as 5'10" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built, with bushy eyebrows.



I'm not sure if the witness could tell if the male was athletically built if he's wearing a one piece jumpsuit coverall. Rather, the description leans more towards him wearing, perhaps, closer fitting apparel, by example, a black turtleneck and skinny black jeans. With tighter fitting clothing, she could determine the type of build he had. She doesn't think he's very muscular. She wouldn't learn that much about his physique, would she, if he was wearing a coverall? IDK

Robot or human?

 

[Montana Greyback Original]

Slightly sideways and a 'me-rail' but I once dropped a tin of gloss paint all down myself just outside my house. It bounced, the lid flew off, I was covered head to foot in bright blue oil based paint. I couldn't go inside my home because that would have destroyed the carpet, walls, door. Ideally I needed to strip off but couldn't as public outdoors. So, I had to think what to do. I went (dripping) to the shop next door and yelled out for them to please give me some heavy duty garbage bags and some selotape. I was able to seal my whole self head to toe in bin liners, sealing the paint inside, to get into my apartment. Once inside I sat in the bath to peel my clothes and the bin liners off me and I honestly didn't get a speck of paint on anything except the bath tub.

So what I'm saying is, three or four bin liners, or pull on some waterproof rain pants and anorack (is that a word?) would have kept the car relatively free of mess.

But where did he go immediately after to clean up?

So glad you asked because I've been down the rabbit hole seeking that answer and I started with what was collected in the search warrant, specifically the book with underlining on "page 118"

I searched books of significance on page 118 and came to the book Fahrenheit 451. I started reading it but not from page 1 but 118 and I had no idea what the book was even but I'll list the page numbers I screenshotted in the order I was them and IMO its a blueprint to BK's evolution past to present day, I'm still not totally convinced he didn't purposely leave his DNA on the snap to the ongoing his DNA was not in the system he was testing the limits in which he could push.

But please give these page numbers in Fahrenheit 451 a read and give me your thoughts and opinion on if there's any relevance to what we know about BK and if what we know parallels the pages in the book at all.


Pg 133 (BK's clean up process IMO)
Pg 134
Pg 135
Pg 136
Pg 144
Pg 145
Pg 146
Pg 147
Pg 148
Pg 149 last paragraph and pg 150 first paragraph is so gripping and IMO is what BK was seeking and who's to say he wasn't doing this before the murders in Moscow

Pg 155
Pg 158

 

[iamshadow21]

So glad you asked because I've been down the rabbit hole seeking that answer and I started with what was collected in the search warrant, specifically the book with underlining on "page 118"

I searched books of significance on page 118 and came to the book Fahrenheit 451. I started reading it but not from page 1 but 118 and I had no idea what the book was even but I'll list the page numbers I screenshotted in the order I was them and IMO its a blueprint to BK's evolution past to present day, I'm still not totally convinced he didn't purposely leave his DNA on the snap to the ongoing his DNA was not in the system he was testing the limits in which he could push.

But please give these page numbers in Fahrenheit 451 a read and give me your thoughts and opinion on if there's any relevance to what we know about BK and if what we know parallels the pages in the book at all.


Pg 133 (BK's clean up process IMO)
Pg 134
Pg 135
Pg 136
Pg 144
Pg 145
Pg 146
Pg 147
Pg 148
Pg 149 last paragraph and pg 150 first paragraph is so gripping and IMO is what BK was seeking and who's to say he wasn't doing this before the murders in Moscow

Pg 155
Pg 158

Farenheit 451 will have had dozens of editions, hardback and paperback and digital and large print, since it was first published. They're all going to have different formatting and page counts to each other. What is on page 118 of one edition is not going to be the same in a different edition.

MOO

 

[Kemug]

Slightly sideways and a 'me-rail' but I once dropped a tin of gloss paint all down myself just outside my house. It bounced, the lid flew off, I was covered head to foot in bright blue oil based paint. I couldn't go inside my home because that would have destroyed the carpet, walls, door. Ideally I needed to strip off but couldn't as public outdoors. So, I had to think what to do. I went (dripping) to the shop next door and yelled out for them to please give me some heavy duty garbage bags and some selotape. I was able to seal my whole self head to toe in bin liners, sealing the paint inside, to get into my apartment. Once inside I sat in the bath to peel my clothes and the bin liners off me and I honestly didn't get a speck of paint on anything except the bath tub.

So what I'm saying is, three or four bin liners, or pull on some waterproof rain pants and anorack (is that a word?) would have kept the car relatively free of mess.

But where did he go immediately after to clean up?

Well, I'm glad you observed but didn't absorb!

 

[Kittybunny]

Snipped for focus.

I'm going to repost from the previous thread why I don't think the word is curls (2 reasons).

(1) Whoever wrote that makes their a's look like u's. (Look at the words Columbia, navy, man's, & drawing (there are more examples in the list, I captured a small section)).

(2) It's obviously not curls, as so many have pointed out, as there are 6 characters in that word, not 5, so it can't be curls IMO.

So... has anyone tried playing Wordle with the 6 letters using an a as the 2nd character? While I'm not convinced it's not a 'u', it may definitely be an 'a'. I'm more apt to think an 'a' over a 'u'.

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73

My guess is marijuana. I thought it might be Kratom but it's more of a green powder than a leafy product. Mostly because it can be brewed as tea and I don't picture health conscious BK smoking anything. Kratom is popular and legal in Washington. It has several uses but one antecdotal use is...

www.websleuths.com

ID Cards inside glove box...like registration, insurance, etc...

That's what it looks like to me.