4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yes. but that's not enough. They questioned many in the neighborhood, but didn't get a warrant. A
warrant is a search and seizure, and so rules would apply. Here's an example of what some feel is an over broad warrant in this case as an example:

30 news groups ask Idaho Supreme Court to reject gag order

The coalition of news organizations contends the gag order violates the right to free speech by prohibiting it from happening in the first place.

www.ktvb.com

I'm not saying that there's not legit reason to question DD drivers. I am saying that without reason, a warrant requesting all of that detail for all of that time for all of those drivers appears to fall into the overly broad category. imo jmo ime. Google and other tech have fought warrants on the same premise - requesting data for all gogglers in a geographic area is overly broad. it's the same reason that you can't just grab everything in a room or search all parts of the house and land if you don't have reason to do so. so 11 months, my question is what about DD makes that reasonable? idk the answer, but I know there's a question. jmo imo ime.

also, I'll add this: if I'm DD or a judge, I'd really double down and want to know why esp since the DD driver on the night of the murder was cleared and there appears to be no DD connection to the murders other than the appearance of that one driver. AND this was after LE had IDd BK, so really... Warrants aren't for fun or just to clear questions. Thank goodness for all of us on that.

Yes, it's definitely bizarre. The more I hear of this case, the more I wonder who else was involved, even if BK was the only one responsible/involved in the murders. This doesn't seem to be just a case of infatuation/stalking/post-rejection narcissistic injury. MOO.

 

[Gemmie]

Yes, it's definitely bizarre. The more I hear of this case, the more I wonder who else was involved, even if BK was the only one responsible/involved in the murders. This doesn't seem to be just a case of infatuation/stalking/post-rejection narcissistic injury. MOO.

Without wanting to come across as argumentative (I'm not) I guess I'm coming from the opposite side. I don't think anyone else was involved and I do think it was a case of infatuation/stalking/post-rejection narcissistic injury.

I do find it interesting that there can be so many different opinions on what happened in any case, not just this one. If I end up wrong I'll definitely go back and see what I could have missed that made my opinion sway from what actually went down. That's how I learn.

 

[Idaho transplant]

Yes, it's definitely bizarre. The more I hear of this case, the more I wonder who else was involved, even if BK was the only one responsible/involved in the murders. This doesn't seem to be just a case of infatuation/stalking/post-rejection narcissistic injury. MOO.

Once all the evidence is on the table, it is my belief that Kolberger will plead guilty and hope for life in prison without
parole. It is my understanding that the jury decides the penalty phase which the judge can overrule.

My question to the legal members of this group is (given the scenario above): can the defense attorney present to the court mental issues that Kohlberger has experienced in his lifetime that could impact the penalty phase? Or, does there have to be an actual trial for that information to be considered?

 

[I'm Nobody]

Okay. Who's keeping up with oddities in the warrants? The defendant did not even reside in Pullman until July 2022. Why would the warrant request records for the entire year from DD to the 1122 House? Xana's DD delivery may not have been as innocuous as it seemed even thought the timing was ironic. How as BK able to toggle between Xana getting her DD and BK killing upstairs?

Barely keeping up here. The prosecution wants no surprises, so IMO they are covering all bases to be prepared if the defense throws a past DoorDash driver as a possible suspect.

Kitchen where BK was arrested. I viewed the PA arrest house online (public viewing) to see the kitchen. It has a slider out to a deck very similar to the deck and slider at 1122 house. Growing up with 3 brothers, they(we) would have figured out how to climb that deck by the age of 6. We had a treehouse with no ladder, a roof leading into my bedroom and windows were often used instead of the door when Mom wasn't around.
I don't know how the suspect entered the house on 11/13/22; I don't think it was his 1st time up close and personal to the 3rd floor bedrooms. JMO a recovering tomboy

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[DeDee]

Yes. but that's not enough. They questioned many in the neighborhood, but didn't get a warrant. A
warrant is a search and seizure, and so rules would apply. Here's an example of what some feel is an over broad warrant in this case as an example:

30 news groups ask Idaho Supreme Court to reject gag order

The coalition of news organizations contends the gag order violates the right to free speech by prohibiting it from happening in the first place.

www.ktvb.com

I'm not saying that there's not legit reason to question DD drivers. I am saying that without reason, a warrant requesting all of that detail for all of that time for all of those drivers appears to fall into the overly broad category. imo jmo ime. Google and other tech have fought warrants on the same premise - requesting data for all gogglers in a geographic area is overly broad. it's the same reason that you can't just grab everything in a room or search all parts of the house and land if you don't have reason to do so. so 11 months, my question is what about DD makes that reasonable? idk the answer, but I know there's a question. jmo imo ime.

also, I'll add this: if I'm DD or a judge, I'd really double down and want to know why esp since the DD driver on the night of the murder was cleared and there appears to be no DD connection to the murders other than the appearance of that one driver. AND this was after LE had IDd BK, so really... Warrants aren't for fun or just to clear questions. Thank goodness for all of us on that.

Since the DD warrant is only for the 1122 King address, surely there weren't all that many deliveries. In that regard, it doesn't seem like too much information to request. The roomies had vehicles so they could get their own food except when liquor consumption prevented the drives then, DD it is.
How many drivers are we talking about? How often did DD driver's quit in those ten months and new ones take their place?

I personally would not take offense at the prosecution requesting my information to help them solve a quadruple homicide but not everyone thinks like that. I see it as DA's due diligence, att.


We have early morning courts reserved so I must shove off but wanted to mention that I saw where someone opined the 10 (non legible) inside glove, inside box were not ID cards but are likely SD cards. It would be a good hiding place for SD cards to use a sock then a box to place them inside. Comparing the handwriting samples of the s's and many look like i's.

( from @jepop 's post 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74 ) BBM
EVIDENCE FROM PA HOUSE: (63 item total).
Knife...
[snipped for focus]...
10 (non legible) inside glove inside box...
Various criminology books, notes, license, card...
[snipped for focus]...
1 pair of brown boots

JMOO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Okay. Who's keeping up with oddities in the warrants? The defendant did not even reside in Pullman until July 2022. Why would the warrant request records for the entire year from DD to the 1122 House?

SBM

Speculating & tip-toeing to share an unpopular opinion, but … based on the incredibly broad nature of the warrant & the warrant date (12/6/22), I think LE was still looking for a suspect.

MOO & speculating, but I think LE was able to pretty quickly eliminate “all the usual suspects,” perhaps/likely some we aren’t even aware of.

MOO, so LE started casting a much bigger net to try to find someone who might have targeted/fixated on the victim(s) &/or house. In addition to SM, DD is an obvious place to look, it seems to me, since it’s reportedly so commonly used by students at both universities. MOO & speculation.

I know many/most have interpreted the public documents, especially the PCA, as BCK was in LE sights much sooner, but my interpretation is different. MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723 Order to Seal Redact - DoorDash Inc.pdf

 

[jjleroche]

Thank you, this is awesome.

I'd found the one about the two different weapons myself, but I could only see the blurb without a subscription, and to be frank - I had a breakdown in my last year of high school (lots of reasons, but a handful of undiagnosed learning disabilities didn't help), so I don't even have my high school diploma (HSC), let alone a university degree, so the language is very difficult for me to wade through without a lot of time and googling. I wasn't 100% sure it was relevant to what I was searching for.

Hi Iamshadow21. Had tried to message you direct, but can't seem to work it out. Anyway, I also reside in Australia, so "G'day!" Just wanted to let you know that I always appreciate your posts. Even though, as you mentioned, you don't have degrees or HSC, it's clear from your posts that you're certainly not a ninny. They demonstrate that you have a really good grasp of things - particularly forensics, and you are a brilliant researcher. So sorry to read about the obstacles youve had to overcome. I hope things are looking up for you. PS I dont have a degree either - living in regional SA when I completed Leaving in the '70s - no way I was going to be able to move to the big smoke for a tertiary education. All the very best

 

[DeDee]

Barely keeping up here. The prosecution wants no surprises, so IMO they are covering all bases to be prepared if the defense throws a past DoorDash driver as a possible suspect.

Kitchen where BK was arrested. I viewed the PA arrest house online (public viewing) to see the kitchen. It has a slider out to a deck very similar to the deck and slider at 1122 house. Growing up with 3 brothers, they(we) would have figured out how to climb that deck by the age of 6. We had a treehouse with no ladder, a roof leading into my bedroom and windows were often used instead of the door when Mom wasn't around.
I don't know how the suspect entered the house on 11/13/22; I don't think it was his 1st time up close and personal to the 3rd floor bedrooms. JMO a recovering tomboy

119 Lamsden Dr, Albrightsville, PA 18210 | realtor.com®

View 36 photos for 119 Lamsden Dr, Albrightsville, PA 18210, a 3 bed, 2 bath, 1,332 Sq. Ft. single family home built in 1991 that was last sold on 11/25/2014.

www.realtor.com

I agree the DA Team is preparing their case.

Ha! I also examined the childhood home much the same way you've described. Several things:

There was no patio, no chairs, wooden swings, gas grills or such in the backyard in those images that would indicate an interest in outdoor entertaining, even among family members.

I imagined BK snuck out at night since he wasn't sleeping. One of his friends said they walked around late at night in their neighborhood. Friend said something about how BK did not want to use the community gate to enter his neighborhood so they would usurp it by circling the long way around. When BK got home, did he break into the family home by using the glass slider?

Your idea about the climbing deck is great! Did he jump up on the decking in order to reach the slider?

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Hi Iamshadow21. Had tried to message you direct, but can't seem to work it out. Anyway, I also reside in Australia, so "G'day!" Just wanted to let you know that I always appreciate your posts. Even though, as you mentioned, you don't have degrees or HSC, it's clear from your posts that you're certainly not a ninny. They demonstrate that you have a really good grasp of things - particularly forensics, and you are a brilliant researcher. So sorry to read about the obstacles youve had to overcome. I hope things are looking up for you. PS I dont have a degree either - living in regional SA when I completed Leaving in the '70s - no way I was going to be able to move to the big smoke for a tertiary education. All the very best

Thank you, you're so kind. <3

I've always read voraciously and loved to learn.

I think a part of why this case grabbed me and held on is that these young people half my age were all in the process of achieving something that I'd always been told was going to be part of my life, and then... it just didn't happen. And I've tried further education since, and it's always led to a catastrophic decline in my mental health. I eventually came to the understanding that formal higher education wasn't right for me.

So instead, I Fight Crime! XD

(And bore the pants off anyone in the threads who doesn't get excited by the history of and science behind footprints, blood, tool marks, etc. etc.)

 

[jjleroche]

Thank you, you're so kind. <3

I've always read voraciously and loved to learn.

I think a part of why this case grabbed me and held on is that these young people half my age were all in the process of achieving something that I'd always been told was going to be part of my life, and then... it just didn't happen. And I've tried further education since, and it's always led to a catastrophic decline in my mental health. I eventually came to the understanding that formal higher education wasn't right for me.

So instead, I Fight Crime! XD

(And bore the pants off anyone in the threads who doesn't get excited by the history of and science behind footprints, blood, tool marks, etc. etc.)

Well I think you've found something that really suits your skill set. It really is a fascinating topic - I hadn't realised just how fascinating it was until I started immersing myself in the posts for this tragic crime. I'm really glad that all of us Websleuthers can benefit from your knowledge and research abilities. (PS I haven't been bored by any of your posts).

 

[Sincerely]

Has anyone looked through Ka-Bar reviews on Amazon/eBay? I recall a case where the killer had reviews on Amazon (can’t recall killer’s name). I’m sure the investigation would have already found this. Not that the info would be relevant except to link him to the purchase, I guess. I don’t know that there is a way to search names, usernames, locations, dates of purchase on Amazon/eBay? Just thinking out loud really.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Yes, it's definitely bizarre. The more I hear of this case, the more I wonder who else was involved, even if BK was the only one responsible/involved in the murders. This doesn't seem to be just a case of infatuation/stalking/post-rejection narcissistic injury. MOO.

JMO.
I agree. I also wonder if there were not more people involved, not in the murders, but as in a 'community'. The Yik yak resurrection and warrants for every Tom, Dick, and Harry has emphasized this.
The gag orders are agreed upon by BOTH prosecution and defence, IIRC. They could both benefit in completely different ways, but how would that be possible?

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Without wanting to come across as argumentative (I'm not) I guess I'm coming from the opposite side. I don't think anyone else was involved and I do think it was a case of infatuation/stalking/post-rejection narcissistic injury.

I do find it interesting that there can be so many different opinions on what happened in any case, not just this one. If I end up wrong I'll definitely go back and see what I could have missed that made my opinion sway from what actually went down. That's how I learn.

RBBM
I agree with the bolded 100%. I trust my beliefs as we all do, but if I am wrong I like to see where my thought process was wrong. It's a scientific thing, hypothesis, test, analysis, conclusion or retest. It's the only way

 

[I'm Nobody]

JMO.
I agree. I also wonder if there were not more people involved, not in the murders, but as in a 'community'. The Yik yak resurrection and warrants for every Tom, Dick, and Harry has emphasized this.
The gag orders are agreed upon by BOTH prosecution and defence, IIRC. They could both benefit in completely different ways, but how would that be possible?

BBM. me too. I wonder about the 2nd page of the PCA being redacted. Could there have been another person there? In the bathroom? Maybe passed out--the unconscious person? Was page 2 redacted for security purposes? The longer I think about some things the more confused I get. The evidence seems strong, cell, DNA, car, eye-witness but why all the confidentiality and "pray" to keep things sealed? Both sides.

JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

I have wondered if someone else was inadvertently involved. Like another person in the house. Someone who told BK or someone else in BKs earshot that Kaylee was out of the house (not expecting her to come back that day). BK maybe having an acquaintance at DD who told him that house orders as late as 3 am but never after. (Which would be wrong on this night).

Totally random thought. Was this done on a dare or challenge?

Just thoughts. Moo.

 

[maconrich]

Yes to what y'all are saying. All I'm sure of is that something doesn't feel right, and no matter how much I read, think, etc my brain still glitches when it comes to BK and the murders. I do think he probably has issues, and also that he'd make almost the perfect one to "pin this on" - for lack of a better term - not because I believe LE is literally trying to pin this on him, or at least I'd hope not. I keep waiting for whatever is missing to slide into place, but nothing we've seen so far has made that happen. I'm not discounting that BK was involved, just saying something feels off. Edited to add: not even discounting that BK might be responsible. Mainly noting that something doesn't feel right - yet.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm with Occam's razor on this one.

He was stalking the home, not just that night, but for weeks beforehand. And apart from the after dawn drive-by, NEVER after.
His car was in the area.
He turned off his phone.
He drove a circuitous route home.
All of this was done in the middle of the night, not usual hours for someone to drive somewhere for a business, work, or social engagement.
His DNA was found on a knife sheath next to a victim.
His behaviour changes were noted by some who knew him.
He started wearing gloves in public.
He discarded garbage, covertly, in the bins of his neighbours once back east.

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. And that's just from the little we know at this VERY EARLY STAGE.

I'm not going to stop questioning or being curious, but I'm not seeing any reason to start looking for conspiracies or co-conspirators, either.

MOO

 

[jepop]

I have been looking at the cell tower data warrants. It looks to me like early on ( Verizon is November 16/17) they were looking for ALL data around the crime scene from the carriers. Maybe someone who understands cell tower's location data techniques can read and comment? MOO

GPS coordinates all records and unique devices 3-5AM:

T mobile distance 2 miles
Verizon distance 0.5miles
Inland Cellular distance 0.5miles
ATT distance 0.5miles

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20T-Mobile%201.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Verizon%20Wireless%201.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Inland%20Cellular.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20ATT.pdf

August 1 2022-present All account info for three unknown subscriber numbers. These were early on too. MOO

Verizon
T mobile

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Verizon%20Wireless.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20T-Mobile.pdf

These were all later:

ATT Specific number (redacted) Nov 12 12AM to Nov 14 12AM

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20ATT%201.pdf

ATT sealed

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20-%20ATT.pdf

Verizon sealed

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20-%20Verizon%20Wireless.pdf

Thanks for the work on looking into these warrants!
I recall per PCA that LE did a capture of cell phone pings (or however it is done) for the crime scene area and immediate surrounds - for the early am hours Nov 13th. I'm not up on how this works exactly but some of the warrants you mention here must be related to that? I think such a warrant allows LE to id cell phone numbers that were active in the area at the time of murders. In the PCA the affiant mentions that owing to this warrant, LE knew in retrospect that the BK no. was not active at that time, via the BK historical cell phone ping info acquired via warrant on 23rd DEcember. RE the timeline, all that coincides with what we are so familar with by now re BK turning phone off then on again (ala IT Crowd) before and after the crime. MOO and what a mouthfull.

 

[jepop]

Kohlberger's Elantra was called in on 11/29.
The DoorDash warrant was served on 12/6.

Those things don't necessarily have to have any relation. It's likely LE was still pursuing any and all leads at that time. Including double and triple checking DoorDash guys' story and to check if any other DoorDash drivers were of interest.

BBB: This makes so much sense to me. When I see that warrant and the gazillion other ones, it makes me even more confident that LE have done an amazingly throrough job here, as opposed to arousing suspicions.

I have no problem with investigators carrying out parallell investigations once BK came on to the radar. I would hope that they would.

Why would LE, in their stated committment (via many Press conferences) "We want a conviction, not just an arrest', not

-follow up all relevant leads and tips,
-avoid future defense accusations of tunnel vision
-do due diligence.

MOO

 

[jepop]

BBM. me too. I wonder about the 2nd page of the PCA being redacted. Could there have been another person there? In the bathroom? Maybe passed out--the unconscious person? Was page 2 redacted for security purposes? The longer I think about some things the more confused I get. The evidence seems strong, cell, DNA, car, eye-witness but why all the confidentiality and "pray" to keep things sealed? Both sides.

JMO

What do you mean by the second page of the PCA redacted? I think you might mean the autopsy results/details for EC aere redacted in the PCA at the bottom of the second page? Hope I'm not misunderstanding you, so could you point me to where you're coming from? MOO

ETA

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - 122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf -

pdfhost.io

ETA: Sorry, I should have asked this first up but if you mean something else, could you please provide a link showing that a whole second page of the PCA has been redacted?