4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

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  • #521
The fact that he had his flashlight on him while he was putting his personal trash in baggies leads me to believe he was getting ready to go out and put it in a neighbor's trash, as he had been observed doing before.
 
  • #522
I got the feeling they wanted to see the sights - maybe saw Mt Rushmore and maybe Yellowstone when dad rode with him on the way over.

We don't really know, but that southern route is so beautiful, cross the Rockies further south can sometimes have weather advantages.

IMO.
^rsbm

I kind of hope BK’s father did see some sights and experience some joy on the ride back to PA. There’s a good chance he will never have another peaceful time again with his son, and maybe he won’t have a truly peaceful day again, ever. I just feel bad for the parents. If their son is found guilty of the murders, it is a heavy burden for them to carry for the rest of their lives.

jmo
 
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  • #523
How does segregating his trash help his situation regarding DNA and the crime?

Well, at that point, he had not been arrested and didn't know there was an arrest warrant (based on DNA taken from the neighbors' trash!) He was trying to keep that arrest warrant from happening!

So, having started this business of segregating his own DNA from the parental trash bin (he thinks LE is only looking at Kohberger trash), he keeps it up. There is likely some element of either true panic or magical thinking or both in this effort.

He doesn't want the FBI/LE to get his DNA. He KNOWS he left DNA at the crime scene, IMO (and even without the sheath, there are newer DNA collection techniques that might have gotten his DNA from other places - including the bodies - of the victims).

I figure that they ran the sheath immediately (2 hour test for 1 source DNA; operated from a van of which the FBI has many - at least one was on scene at 1122 King, IRRC, by about Day 2-3 of the investigation).

So, they knew the DNA profile of the perp. Kohberger almost certainly hypothesized that they knew they had the DNA - and that the only way to tie it to him was to get his DNA, somehow - or his parents' DNA.

I guess he ought to have gotten rid of even the trash his parents might have touched (!) The futility of trying to hide one's DNA (or one's parents' DNA or one's larger family's DNA) from the FBI/nationwide DNA databases should have been clear to him before the crime, but he was somehow unable to keep himself from committing the crimes.
 
  • #524
those zippy bags are expensive! Using them like that would really add up...

Amazon has its own brand for really cheap. I figure he likely didn't need more than 4-5 per day. Would love to know what exactly he thought he was segregating (use tissue to dry hands; flush down toilet; use reusable utensils (preferable silicon) to eat. What else was he throwing away (gloved as he was) that had lots of DNA? Did they use napkins and paper towels a lot? (Take those in the backyard at 2 am and burn 'em!)

His mind is so confusing, IMO.
 
  • #525
those zippy bags are expensive! Using them like that would really add up...
Only if you buy them new. A box is around .25 cents at an estate sale. Just sayin'.
 
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  • #526
Smart move on BCK actually...DNA degrades in plastic and hampers testing, thats why evidence when collected is put in paper bags. Two links below



On the link below scroll down to "Evidence Transportation and Storage" (4th page down)


How does segregating his trash help his situation regarding DNA and the crime?
It doesn't.

He left a whole apartment replete with pillow cases, sheets and a recently visited bio-father back in Pullman
 
  • #527
Possibly an off the wall question: is SG in a position where he is legally required to be notified of every meeting between the DA and PA or the DA and the Court? I've not considered him to be a party to this case, so I get a little confused when he appears to be demanding that he be notified and/or included. Noting the Declaration that was linked a few posts ago, although this seems like only one instance where SG is demanding things.

 
  • #528
Confidential informant? 911 caller? Anyone at the house the following morning? MOO

The reason given was "release might threaten or endanger the life or safety of said individuals"


I think they are trying to protect them from the intense public/media interest in the case. If their names were released, they would probably be pursued by the press and others, nonstop, which might create a dangerous situation.
MOO
RBBM
Annoying probably, dangerous? How so? The surviving roommates are avoiding the media & are not in danger AFAIK.

Releasing the call at this time is a good idea. We eagerly anticipate investigation bombshells but many turn out to be duds. The 911 call is a public record.

While it's a balancing act of rights, the pendulum in this case could use a tilt toward more openness IMO.
JMO
 
  • #529
But we haven't even factored in whatever noise the upper floor occupants (plus Murphy) were able to make before they expired. From the intruder's p.o.v., he may have assumed that others would be coming up to the top floor to check or complain about the noise. If so, waiting for the middle floor residents/guest to go back to their rooms may not have seemed a viable option.
True. Looking at times pulled from the PCA, things seemed pretty busy around 4am - which seems to be minutes before the intruder entered the home. Curious timing for entering, but if intruder came in the back and wasn't aware...
Regardless, the suspected timeline indicates the intruder didn't waste time, and if getting in and getting out was a prime objective, waiting people out might not have been an option. Plus add the potential surprise over seeing other people or people not being where intruder thought they'd be. So intruder may not have felt they had the option of waiting. Although by going after Xana and Ethan the intruder boxed him/herself into a section of the house where he/she would have had a harder time escaping if anyone else showed up. Also have to keep in mind that X or E could have been targets all along.

(paraphrased or quoted from PCA)
4am Doordash delivery
4am DM stating it sounded like KG was playing with dog upstairs
4:04 Suspect car entering neighborhood 4th time; turns around; drives back; funky turn attempt - how long did the driving, turning etc take and how long did it take to successfully park and then walk from car to house? 3 minutes from car to house - based on security camera sounds and car seen exiting after the murders?
4:12 XK was on TikTok
4:?? DM heard someone say "there's someone here"
4:?? DM hears crying coming from X's room then hears man say something like "it's ok, I'm going to help you."
4:?? DM looks out the bedroom door and sees man with mask
4:17 security camera picked up voice / whimper and thud
4:20 Suspect vehicle leaving area of King Rd
4:00 - 4:20 - LE believes murders took place

 
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  • #530
RBBM
Annoying probably, dangerous? How so? The surviving roommates are avoiding the media & are not in danger AFAIK.

Releasing the call at this time is a good idea. We eagerly anticipate investigation bombshells but many turn out to be duds. The 911 call is a public record.

While it's a balancing act of rights, the pendulum in this case could use a tilt toward more openness IMO.
JMO
The latest motion listed additional reasons and the order to seal refers back to the motion:
In the motion for temporary order to seal the stipulation to release property and all related documents including Ex A and Ex B, five reasons were given:

1 Interfere with enforcement proceedings
2 Deprive a person of a right to a fair trial
3 Constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy
4 Disclose the identity of a confidential source and/or
5 Disclose investigative techniques and procedures


Agree about the 911 call being released, but the State might think that the call touches on one of those five reasons listed above though, especially #3. At first, I thought the reaction by the court was far too closed. SInce then, I believe the court has been finding its way to a more balanced position (by releasing some motions, orders, arguments) and is almost there. MOO
 
  • #531
Do we know that he wore gloves habitually before the murders?

Unsure, I can't provide link but read somewhere he was known for wearing gloves often. Does anyone else agree with this or should I delete my (unverified) post?
 
  • #532
Well there was that "green leafy substance" in a jar police seized. That sounds like it could have indicated current drug use. Idaho murders update: More Bryan Kohberger documents released in Pennsylvania, knife, phone, masks seized
JMO

Yes and some green leafy substances are just medical grade they are laced with fentanyl or meth. Not saying BK used those substances in any way whatsoever. Maybe he was bagging things up (to sell?) not put in bin JMO MOO speculation.
 
  • #533
RBBM
Annoying probably, dangerous? How so? The surviving roommates are avoiding the media & are not in danger AFAIK.

Releasing the call at this time is a good idea. We eagerly anticipate investigation bombshells but many turn out to be duds. The 911 call is a public record.

While it's a balancing act of rights, the pendulum in this case could use a tilt toward more openness IMO.
JMO

Why is the openness necessary when they believe it could endanger lives? It's easy for us to say they're not in danger as far as we know, because we know very little. IMO, if there's risk to anyone -- either because of something/someone we don't know about yet or because of social media vigilantes who want someone to blame, much like they blamed DM -- then that far outweighs my curiosity.

MOO.
 
  • #534
That's not how I interpreted what the article said. I picture more like him putting things from his personal wastebasket or car trash into ziploc baggies BEFORE it mixes with the family trash. Still doesn't make such sense though.

And putting it in ziploc bags? That’s kinda odd to me. What kind of trash I wonder?

those zippy bags are expensive! Using them like that would really add up...

I find it interesting that the article quotes the official saying, "apparently," Kohberger was separating his trash.
A few random thoughts about this Monroe County prosecutor's report about what BK was doing at the time police raided his family home:

-Very good catch U.N.Known, when you note the official said 'apparently'; that sounds like hearsay, rumor, etc., as if he had heard that from somewhere/someone; is it true?

-Is anyone seeing on the item receipt list from the parents' house, mention of zip-loc baggies? (If so, I must have missed that item(s), however I did see the receipt list from BK's vehicle noting zip-loc baggies; if that is what BK was doing WHEN he was caught during the raid, wouldn't it have made sense to gather those/the zip-loc baggie(s) in question? If not, why not?)

-How does anyone know what BK was actually doing when police raided his parents' home? They may know what he was wearing, what time it was, what room he was in, what was in his pockets at the time - but presuming BK has ears, wouldn't it have made sense that he may have heard something going on at 1:30 in the morning (like maybe the front entry door being bashed in), which perhaps would've caused him to take pause from whatever he'd been actually doing, to listen more intently, or whatever? Unless they have cams inside the house that can show what he was doing at that moment, how does anyone know what he was actually doing at that moment? ("Mancuso says, "Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dresssd in shorts and a shirt a wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate zip lock baggies."" Monroe County Officials Share New Details About Idaho Murder Suspect's Arrest)

-just to shed a different perspective on this 'apparent' and reportedly telling activity of BK's - just wanted to mention that if I am in some kind of an area where there may not be a waste bin, that is exactly what I do to dispose of 'my personal trash' - for example, if I'm in a vehicle and it doesn't happen to have a trash bag, I will find something, like whatever type of bag/container might be available, and put whatever trash items might fit into it, just to tidy the vehicle - ie husb tends to just put receipts or wrappers or straws, cans, whatever, on the seat or the floor, if there is no trash bag in his vehicle, so when I happen to be a passenger, that's what I'm doing, gathering up little items of trash and putting them in some kind of container/bag/ziploc bag, which I can then put in whatever trash receptacle is available at a later time, ie home trash, coffeeshop drivethrough trash receptacle, whatever, even though I'm not trying to hide anything. If I'm doing work in a little office with no waste bin, same thing; whatever trash I might accumulate (saran wrap from lunch? gum wrappers? empty paperclip box? staples I pulled out? - what do I do with it? throw it on the floor? leave it for others to pick up? leave a mess on the desk? no, I find something to put it in, until I can take that container/bag/ziploc bag from a snack/whatever to an actual trash receptacle. It's possible BK doesn't have a little trash bin in his bedroom in his parents' home, or in the TV room, or wherever he spends his time while he's there, and he simply used whatever was available to gather his 'personal trash' until taking it to the main house trashbag. Or maybe he uses/reuses a 'dedicated' large zip-loc bag for just that purpose (nobody said which size the zip-loc bag/s was/were).

-the report of BK putting his family's trash in with a neighbor's trash occurred days before the actual raid on his parents' home; not sure if this is the case in this family's neighborhood, but where I live, they limit the number of bags you're 'allowed' to put out for your weekly trash pickup. Whatever that number is (maybe 3 bags?), sometimes people go over that limit, especially at gift-giving time, like Christmas. All the wrapping supplies, packaging from buying silly decorations, unneeded boxes, whatever, from that time of year. In fact I drove someone home a few days after this past Christmas and she told me how she'd put some of her trash onto her neighbour's curb for pickup, because she was over her limit and she saw the neighbor had fewer bags than allowed - sneaky her, but really not criminal, and not trying to hide any of her family's DNA. From my perspective, this wasn't a big 'a-ha' moment regarding BK, especially given the proximity to the Christmas season with all of its waste. If it may have been in the middle of the night, perhaps he waited until he was sure the neighbor had already put out all of their trash, to make sure they could accommodate another bag within their allotment?
 
  • #535
Yes and some green leafy substances are just medical grade they are laced with fentanyl or meth. Not saying BK used those substances in any way whatsoever. Maybe he was bagging things up (to sell?) not put in bin JMO MOO speculation.
Not to pick on the referenced post, but speaking of the green leafy substances that were taken, I was wondering about item#48 'medical documents' from the receipt list of items taken from the family home - could that possibly be some kind of a legal medical authorization to use cannabis for medical purposes?

Also, the things taken do not necessarily even belong to BK, as they were gathered from the family home where a few people were residing at the time.
 
  • #536
His bathtub.

Slightly sideways and a 'me-rail' but I once dropped a tin of gloss paint all down myself just outside my house. It bounced, the lid flew off, I was covered head to foot in bright blue oil based paint. I couldn't go inside my home because that would have destroyed the carpet, walls, door. Ideally I needed to strip off but couldn't as public outdoors. So, I had to think what to do. I went (dripping) to the shop next door and yelled out for them to please give me some heavy duty garbage bags and some selotape. I was able to seal my whole self head to toe in bin liners, sealing the paint inside, to get into my apartment. Once inside I sat in the bath to peel my clothes and the bin liners off me and I honestly didn't get a speck of paint on anything except the bath tub.

So what I'm saying is, three or four bin liners, or pull on some waterproof rain pants and anorack (is that a word?) would have kept the car relatively free of mess.

But where did he go immediately after to clean up?
Re where did the alleged killer go immediately after the murders? Some of that is still a mystery (but I don't think it could have been his bathtub or his shower as he allegedly didn't get back to Pullman until around 5.30am!)

According to the pings of his phone he was still switched off (or not connecting to the network) at 4.20am after leaving the scene/Queen Street. bHe reconnected at at c.4.48 am. At that point he was pinging off towers south of Moscow in the vicinity of Blaine Id. The pings then demonstrate a southernly then west and northernly route back to Pullman, penultimately travelling north past 1300 Johnston road at about 5.25am then on to N-E Stadium Way Pullman ( which is towards his residence) a couple of minutes later. MOO from reading PCA.

Between 4.20 and 4.48am? We do know per PCA that he likely exited the King St neighbourhood just after 4.20am via Walenta then travelling south to intersect with Sand Road/Palouse Street/Drive. See PCA pp 13-15 from memory -


In that half an hour he may have been getting rid of the weopon, or temporarily hiding the weopon, before turning phone back on, maybe some where south of Moscow off the highway prior to Blaine Id. I've also speculated that he may have dumped/hidden the weopon east of Moscow in some rural backwater during this half hour because that is the direction from which he allegedly approached the scene at around 3.25am. If he exited onto Sand Road/Palouse Drive as the PCA suggests he could have travelled east on Palouse and into a vast rural area on the other side of the highway.

Re cleaning up, for sure he also may have stopped to change (take off clothes he was wearing in the house). As you say, perhaps he had some kinds of plastic protection over his car seat/s. All of this is obviously speculation and MOO. Perhaps he just stopped and sat somewhere off road in his car for half an hour 'recovering' and checking up on himself and stashing the knife out of sight in the boot or something.

MOO
 
  • #537
Didn't the list say he had four gloves? Could that mean double gloving, wearing two on each hand? Or maybe two being worn and two in a pocket for the next ziploc bag of trash? Hmm... And MOO
I'm rather intrigued that the list states that, among other things, he had "on him" at the time of the raid to arrest him: ONE CHEEK SWAB.
Really? Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm at a loss to understand why he had would have on his person a cheek swab. I assume that it was an unused cheek swab, but maybe it was someone else's used cheek swab, and he had it with him in order to substitute that one for his own, should he be arrested...Maybe I'm giving the suspect a little too much credit, but despite racking my brain to come up with a reason why anyone would be carting around on their person a cheek swab for any non-nefarious reason (or even a nefarious one really). Any thoughts - I'd be very grateful if you could enlighten me. TIA
 
  • #538
Perhaps he just stopped and sat somewhere off road in his car for half an hour 'recovering' and checking up on himself and stashing the knife out of sight in the boot or something.
I can certainly see him stopping somewhere for a while to "recover" as you say, maybe for quite a long time. Waiting for his heart to stop pounding, his pulse to stop racing - or even to stop feeling sweaty and nauseous. And to come to terms with what he had done.
 
  • #539
A few random thoughts about this Monroe County prosecutor's report about what BK was doing at the time police raided his family home:

-Very good catch U.N.Known, when you note the official said 'apparently'; that sounds like hearsay, rumor, etc., as if he had heard that from somewhere/someone; is it true?

-Is anyone seeing on the item receipt list from the parents' house, mention of zip-loc baggies? (If so, I must have missed that item(s), however I did see the receipt list from BK's vehicle noting zip-loc baggies; if that is what BK was doing WHEN he was caught during the raid, wouldn't it have made sense to gather those/the zip-loc baggie(s) in question? If not, why not?)

-How does anyone know what BK was actually doing when police raided his parents' home? They may know what he was wearing, what time it was, what room he was in, what was in his pockets at the time - but presuming BK has ears, wouldn't it have made sense that he may have heard something going on at 1:30 in the morning (like maybe the front entry door being bashed in), which perhaps would've caused him to take pause from whatever he'd been actually doing, to listen more intently, or whatever? Unless they have cams inside the house that can show what he was doing at that moment, how does anyone know what he was actually doing at that moment? ("Mancuso says, "Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dresssd in shorts and a shirt a wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate zip lock baggies."" Monroe County Officials Share New Details About Idaho Murder Suspect's Arrest)

-just to shed a different perspective on this 'apparent' and reportedly telling activity of BK's - just wanted to mention that if I am in some kind of an area where there may not be a waste bin, that is exactly what I do to dispose of 'my personal trash' - for example, if I'm in a vehicle and it doesn't happen to have a trash bag, I will find something, like whatever type of bag/container might be available, and put whatever trash items might fit into it, just to tidy the vehicle - ie husb tends to just put receipts or wrappers or straws, cans, whatever, on the seat or the floor, if there is no trash bag in his vehicle, so when I happen to be a passenger, that's what I'm doing, gathering up little items of trash and putting them in some kind of container/bag/ziploc bag, which I can then put in whatever trash receptacle is available at a later time, ie home trash, coffeeshop drivethrough trash receptacle, whatever, even though I'm not trying to hide anything. If I'm doing work in a little office with no waste bin, same thing; whatever trash I might accumulate (saran wrap from lunch? gum wrappers? empty paperclip box? staples I pulled out? - what do I do with it? throw it on the floor? leave it for others to pick up? leave a mess on the desk? no, I find something to put it in, until I can take that container/bag/ziploc bag from a snack/whatever to an actual trash receptacle. It's possible BK doesn't have a little trash bin in his bedroom in his parents' home, or in the TV room, or wherever he spends his time while he's there, and he simply used whatever was available to gather his 'personal trash' until taking it to the main house trashbag. Or maybe he uses/reuses a 'dedicated' large zip-loc bag for just that purpose (nobody said which size the zip-loc bag/s was/were).

-the report of BK putting his family's trash in with a neighbor's trash occurred days before the actual raid on his parents' home; not sure if this is the case in this family's neighborhood, but where I live, they limit the number of bags you're 'allowed' to put out for your weekly trash pickup. Whatever that number is (maybe 3 bags?), sometimes people go over that limit, especially at gift-giving time, like Christmas. All the wrapping supplies, packaging from buying silly decorations, unneeded boxes, whatever, from that time of year. In fact I drove someone home a few days after this past Christmas and she told me how she'd put some of her trash onto her neighbour's curb for pickup, because she was over her limit and she saw the neighbor had fewer bags than allowed - sneaky her, but really not criminal, and not trying to hide any of her family's DNA. From my perspective, this wasn't a big 'a-ha' moment regarding BK, especially given the proximity to the Christmas season with all of its waste. If it may have been in the middle of the night, perhaps he waited until he was sure the neighbor had already put out all of their trash, to make sure they could accommodate another bag within their allotment?
MOO the “apparently” in their statement is due to not knowing what his motivation is.
MOO the bagging of his trash, if that was going on is odd and to me apparently mental behavior.
Useless to evade DNA collection, but for BK serving some purpose.
 
  • #540
dbm duplicate
 
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