4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

[Dotta]

I believe JL is already co counsel and death penalty qualified.
The motion and order are for an additional death penalty qualified co-counsel.
MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030223%20Motion%20to%20Appoint%20Co-Counsel.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20Appointing%20Co-Counsel.pdf

And for a guy who was sure he would "be exonerated"

 

[I'm Nobody]

@WingsOverTX Why & ani idea whom?​

​

Craig H. Durham of fergusondurham​

Ferguson representing press gag order, right? Not sure. Might be COI for firm?
Durham is huge anti-death penalty lawyer. Maybe pro bono????
Guessing but high profile, firm is already involved.
jmo

Mr. Durham was a staff attorney at the United States District Court in Boise for ten years, where he worked closely with federal judges in death penalty and prisoner civil rights cases. He has also been a trial and appellate public defender for many years.

Craig Durham — FERGUSON DURHAM, PLLC

Craig Durham

www.fergusondurham.com

Ferguson wants death penalty abolished

State Attorney General Bob Ferguson is pushing lawmakers to eliminate the death penalty and require first-degree murder convicts to serve life sentences without the possibility of parole.

www.sunnysidesun.com

forgot to put quote in.

 

[Nila Aella]

He will soon have TWO death penalty qualified public defenders? With all the hoopla around possible recusal of AT (now moot) due to paucity of PDs so qualified in ID, I'm very curious why he needs another one, potentially doubling his cost of representation.

Why & any idea who - JL, possibly ?

MOO

For the why:

Rule 44.3. Standards for the Qualification of Appointed Counsel in Capital Cases | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

I think this means he will have two death penalty qualified attorneys and one death penalty qualified co-counsel. As I read the above, the second death penalty qualified attorney is called co-counsel, and AT will be lead counsel.
MOO

edit added MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

He will soon have TWO death penalty qualified public defenders? With all the hoopla around possible recusal of AT (now moot) due to paucity of PDs so qualified in ID, I'm very curious why he needs another one, potentially doubling his cost of representation.

Why & any idea who - JL, possibly ?

MOO

I believe it's the law that a DP case have two DP-qualified attorneys. Makes sense to me.

Rule 44.3. Standards for the Qualification of Appointed Counsel in Capital Cases | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks for the info. But IMO it shouldn't be necessary to spend time watching a video to correct what appeared in the text of the article accompanying the video. Maybe that's just me!

Thank you for your opinion, and absolutely, it shouldn't be necessary, but alas, it seems obvious that it is indeed necessary. If I want the truth, I like hearing it directly from 'the horse's mouth', ie, in this case, what was exactly said by the prosecutor.. as opposed to a reporter writing their take on things, especially 'nowadays', but that's just me. In this case, the reporter seems to say one thing and write another, or at least not notice her own discrepancy by including the last item on the written list, which she verbally states 'was taken', with the list of items she reports BK had on his person at the time.

 

[deugirtni]

On a road trip that goes from Pullman, WA, down through Idaho and into Utah, in winter, through SLC and Provo, it's entirely possible to start with a very clean car and end up with mud and ice frozen all along the car's lower body area (as seen in the car stop videos). While it wasn't super snowy in Indiana, crossing the Rocky Mountains from SLC to Lomo went over some high roads (possibly even requiring chains - but if not, certainly, there would have been a lot of slush on the road).

I thought the same thing at first, but then locals reminded me of what it's like in winter, in Utah. I remember how my car looked (pristine when we left St George; completely clumped with mud and ice when we arrived at our destination in central Utah). And it stayed frozen/muddy until we left Utah and didn't start to melt off until Vegas. And my car is a compact SUV that is up off the road - my friend's lower-riding car got the worst of it.

So I figure he did wash his car thoroughly back in Washington (but sometimes I wonder - he had to be very discreet about it).

IMO.

It just seemed to my eyes that it was particularly 'grimy/greasy' around the front passenger exterior door handle, which at the time I first saw it (and still now), made me think to myself, hmm, he didn't seem to rush to wash his vehicle, for someone who committed 4 grisly murders and then hopped into his vehicle. OTOH, if he had or hadn't already cleaned his car, after making that long road trip to PA, it isn't so weird that he might want to meticulously clean his car once he was at his folks' home and on winter vacation, so presumably had time to spare.
Pic from this youtube:

 

[WingsOverTX]

For the why:

Rule 44.3. Standards for the Qualification of Appointed Counsel in Capital Cases | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

I think this means he will have two death penalty qualified attorneys and one death penalty qualified co-counsel. As I read the above, the second death penalty qualified attorney is called co-counsel, and AT will be lead counsel.
MOO

edit added MOO

3 DP qualified attorneys? I guess Boise is supplying one or two?

 

[Cool Cats]

It just seemed to my eyes that it was particularly 'grimy/greasy' around the front passenger exterior door handle, which at the time I first saw it (and still now), made me think to myself, hmm, he didn't seem to rush to wash his vehicle, for someone who committed 4 grisly murders and then hopped into his vehicle. OTOH, if he had or hadn't already cleaned his car, after making that long road trip to PA, it isn't so weird that he might want to meticulously clean his car once he was at his folks' home and on winter vacation, so presumably had time to spare.
Pic from this youtube:

View attachment 407703

The inside front dash looks really clean, he probably at least cleaned the inside.

 

[al66pine]

************************ POST OF THE DAY *****************
.......................WE HAVE A WINNER......................

...
as if he was creating something novel which required every single atom of everything to do with the perp.
Like tidying up a thesis...
the thesis in his head...

snipping for focus @kittythehare Yes, exactly.

Like tidying up the thesis in his head.

 

[CGray123]

Yeh, I go back and forth on whether he intentionally left the knife sheath or accidentally left it.

If he had Dickies coveralls on, then those pockets are very deep and so I doubt it would fall out if placed in one.

If he intentionally left it there it was only because he wiped it (what he thought was) completely clean beforehand.. but left part of the snap uncleaned. He should have submerged it in alcohol.

Based on him allegedly putting his personal stuff in plastic bags in PA when being arrested, I think he is on level 5 of expert but not smart enough (no common sense) to know he screwed up level 1 already (drove own car, turned his phone on and off, did not buy a burner phone), etc. He's smart but dumb at the same time.

ITA. The WSU Ph.D. program in Criminology and Criminal Justice focuses on theory and public policy issues, not nitty gritty details of how criminals seek to avoid detection. Here's the overall description from the program website:

DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND CRIMINOLOGY

Graduate Studies

"The Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology offers both a Master of Arts and a Doctor of Philosophy, in Criminal Justice and Criminology.

The graduate program in Criminal Justice and Criminology aims to prepare students to face and address security and justice challenges at the local, national, and international levels. This goal is achieved through the development of theoretical, methodological, and policy-related knowledge and skills as they pertain to criminal justice and criminology.

Graduate Programs Objectives.

Specifically, students in the graduate program in Criminal Justice and Criminology will understand and be able to conceptualize, analyze, and theorize the changing nature of crime, order, security, and justice issues in the current societal environment of the USA and the world. They will acquire the cultural, methodological, and analytical skills needed to interpret available information related to security and justice issues.These objectives will be expressed differently at each level of the program.

Both degrees offer students a complete overview of the criminal justice system, Criminological Theory, and methods of analysis. The department is large enough to offer the range of specializations necessary for a flexible graduate program, yet small enough to retain a sense of community among students and faculty.

Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D) of Criminal Justice and Criminology

Graduates of the Ph.D. program are active scholars and teachers working at a variety of universities across the country. Our recent graduates are on the faculty at Arizona State University, Boise State University, Sam Houston State University, California State University Sacramento and San Bernardino, Michigan State University, Southeast Missouri State University, Arkansas State University, Weber State University, Western Oregon University, University of Texas at Dallas, and the University of Nevada–Reno.

Ph.D. Learning Outcomes

Disciplinary Proficiency: Students will be generally knowledgeable across the entire field
of criminal justice and criminology;

Diversity Knowledge: Students will understand how history, structures of power and privilege, and cultural, social, and economic forces affect criminal justice and criminological outcomes.

Methodological Competence: Students will be competent in the full range research methods and analytical techniques used in the field of criminal justice and criminology.

Specialized Expertise: Students will develop a comprehensive understanding of the published scholarship and contemporary research methods in a specific, defined area of study within the field of criminal justice and criminology.

Proficient Communication: Students will become proficient communicators in terms of research and pedagogy according to professional standards in both written and oral formats."

Bolded & Enlarged by me. Does anyone know what "specific, defined area of study within the field of criminal justice and criminology" BK chose as his specialized area of expertise? Seems worth knowing, if we can overcome the student privacy issues.

 

[jjleroche]

I don't doubt they had the right to seize the things they did. So in that sense they were things he had on him. But I think the reporter's choice of words was confusing as they suggest BK already had one buccal swab "on him." That may have come from LE but I don't think they meant he had the actual swabbing apparatus on him when he was arrested. But looked at closely it's hard to know exactly what was meant. A mystery to me no baggies were taken in what was listed though.
JMO

Thank you NCWatcher. It was indeed the inference of the reporter's choice of words, which threw me.

 

[Cool Cats]

D

 

[Cool Cats]

D

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you for your opinion, and absolutely, it shouldn't be necessary, but alas, it seems obvious that it is indeed necessary. If I want the truth, I like hearing it directly from 'the horse's mouth', ie, in this case, what was exactly said by the prosecutor.. as opposed to a reporter writing their take on things, especially 'nowadays', but that's just me. In this case, the reporter seems to say one thing and write another, or at least not notice her own discrepancy by including the last item on the written list, which she verbally states 'was taken', with the list of items she reports BK had on his person at the time.

I agree. And in my opinion......

..... in this case the "horse's mouth" is what is listed on the "Receipt For Property" page.

Thank you NCWatcher. It was indeed the inference of the reporter's choice of words, which threw me.

The
"Receipt For Property" page simply says:

9.) One (1) buccal swab

This doesn't mean Bryan had a swab in his pocket because
the Warrant specifically lists that DNA is to be taken and

IT IS NOT A BUCCAL SWAB BEFORE IT IS USED INSIDE THE CHEEK. UNUSED, IT IS JUST A Q-TIP.

It is a buccal (cheek) swab only because LE tested for Bryan's DNA inside his cheek.

 

[kittythehare]

ITA. The WSU Ph.D. program in Criminology and Criminal Justice focuses on theory and public policy issues, not nitty gritty details of how criminals seek to avoid detection. Here's the overall description from the program website:

DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND CRIMINOLOGY

Graduate Studies

"The Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology offers both a Master of Arts and a Doctor of Philosophy, in Criminal Justice and Criminology.

The graduate program in Criminal Justice and Criminology aims to prepare students to face and address security and justice challenges at the local, national, and international levels. This goal is achieved through the development of theoretical, methodological, and policy-related knowledge and skills as they pertain to criminal justice and criminology.

Graduate Programs Objectives.

Specifically, students in the graduate program in Criminal Justice and Criminology will understand and be able to conceptualize, analyze, and theorize the changing nature of crime, order, security, and justice issues in the current societal environment of the USA and the world. They will acquire the cultural, methodological, and analytical skills needed to interpret available information related to security and justice issues.These objectives will be expressed differently at each level of the program.

Both degrees offer students a complete overview of the criminal justice system, Criminological Theory, and methods of analysis. The department is large enough to offer the range of specializations necessary for a flexible graduate program, yet small enough to retain a sense of community among students and faculty.

Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D) of Criminal Justice and Criminology

Graduates of the Ph.D. program are active scholars and teachers working at a variety of universities across the country. Our recent graduates are on the faculty at Arizona State University, Boise State University, Sam Houston State University, California State University Sacramento and San Bernardino, Michigan State University, Southeast Missouri State University, Arkansas State University, Weber State University, Western Oregon University, University of Texas at Dallas, and the University of Nevada–Reno.

Ph.D. Learning Outcomes

Disciplinary Proficiency: Students will be generally knowledgeable across the entire field
of criminal justice and criminology;

Diversity Knowledge: Students will understand how history, structures of power and privilege, and cultural, social, and economic forces affect criminal justice and criminological outcomes.

Methodological Competence: Students will be competent in the full range research methods and analytical techniques used in the field of criminal justice and criminology.

Specialized Expertise: Students will develop a comprehensive understanding of the published scholarship and contemporary research methods in a specific, defined area of study within the field of criminal justice and criminology.

Proficient Communication: Students will become proficient communicators in terms of research and pedagogy according to professional standards in both written and oral formats."

Bolded & Enlarged by me. Does anyone know what "specific, defined area of study within the field of criminal justice and criminology" BK chose as his specialized area of expertise? Seems worth knowing, if we can overcome the student privacy issues.

I couldn't find it and I have a feeling the website was closed or made private..

I have been spending too much of my life applying his alleged crime to what you wrote.
I think it's bound to reflect his studies or whatever hypotheses he was playing with intellectually..
but I can find no structure or anything that could define what is open source and apply it accordingly..
If this horrific act of violence is related to academia, how does it fit and I'm well past my theories about infamous serial killers he may have infiltrated his mind through either osmosis or transference because he may have shown a rabid interest in them, a fact we do not know, actually. I'll park it for now. It's only a theory.

So, what?
so, why?

What was his alleged gain?
What is it now?

 

[Batman's Mommy]

Thank you, Batman's Mommy. The last sentence gave light to a corner. A tear in the skin is like a laceration and both can be made with a knife, even a dull knife. A knife can cut, which is also considered a laceration, or else it makes a puncture wound. A tear is similar to a laceration bc it tears open the skin tissue. Got it.

What I wonder now is why the tears confirm (prove?) to you that the KaBar knife used in the murders belongs with the sheath from the bed?

Let's just say, for an example, BK's angry friend wants to frame him for betraying him. He buys a new KaBar knife and sheath. Wearing gloves and using a cotton swab, angry friend plants BK's DNA on the snap. Then, angry friend kills the people. Places a clean sheath w/ BK's DNA onto the bed.

@Ghostwheel I saw the vintage Taylor knife last evening on eBay. It's a nice piece. The image of the sheath clearly shows an open snap.

I own two USMC KaBars. One is on a plaque that was given to a deceased relative by the Marine Regiment he was deployed with as a Navy Chaplain in Operation Desert Storm. The second was given to me as a gift because I semi-collect knives.... Or rather, once upon a time a did. The serrated edge marks the inside of the sheath, even on a brand new knife out of the box. I know this from experience.

And IMO, I do not believe anyone planted anything to frame BK. IMO, he meticulously planned to murder. IMO, the DNA evidence on the snap is just that. BK's DNA on the snap. IMO, if someone was trying to put BK's DNA on anything to frame him, they would have put it all over the place.

JMO. moo

This crime is so disturbing to me. Something about the timeframe, that we are aware of, makes me think that he literally timed himself.... as in.... when he committed to the crime, he had 5-10 minutes **in his head** to get in and out, and I think there were more people encountered than he expected. Also, IMO, that is why he was focused primarily on leaving the residence instead of noticing if there was someone else there to witness him in the home.

Again, JMO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

It just seemed to my eyes that it was particularly 'grimy/greasy' around the front passenger exterior door handle, which at the time I first saw it (and still now), made me think to myself, hmm, he didn't seem to rush to wash his vehicle, for someone who committed 4 grisly murders and then hopped into his vehicle. OTOH, if he had or hadn't already cleaned his car, after making that long road trip to PA, it isn't so weird that he might want to meticulously clean his car once he was at his folks' home and on winter vacation, so presumably had time to spare.
Pic from this youtube:

View attachment 407703

In my experience driving through certain areas with mud, slush, snow, lots of diesel trucks, that looks totally normal after about 2 hours max. Just road grime. If I got stuck traveling through locust country during locust season, less grime but add bug splatters everywhere including the rims of my wheels. I travel a lot, hours on the road and off the road. I once had Costco offer to let me go through the car wash twice to get everything off my car, and I had washed it just before the 5 day trip. Clean it before you leave, clean it when you get back. Seems pretty normal.

Everyone's mileage may vary.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Duplicate

 

[jepop]

I agree. And in my opinion......

..... in this case the "horse's mouth" is what is listed on the "Receipt For Property" page.


The
"Receipt For Property" page simply says:

9.) One (1) buccal swab

This doesn't mean Bryan had a swab in his pocket because
the Warrant specifically lists that DNA is to be taken and

IT IS NOT A BUCCAL SWAB BEFORE IT IS USED INSIDE THE CHEEK. UNUSED, IT IS JUST A Q-TIP.

It is a buccal (cheek) swab only because LE tested for Bryan's DNA inside his cheek.

Nicely put, I find the various court pages and associated docs very 'horses mouthy'!
And nicely spotted, I never realised a buccal swab only became so after the fact of swabbing...thank you! Before that it is just a Q tip!

 

[Ksfarmer8]

Nicely put, I find the various court pages and associated docs very 'horses mouthy'!
And nicely spotted, I never realised a buccal swab only became so after the fact of swabbing...thank you! Before that it is just a Q tip!

This might help. The word "sample" or "smear" is often left off the description hence sometimes causing confusion.

How to Collect a Buccal Swab Sample for Forensic Analysis [VIDEO]

Step-by-step instructions on how to build a buccal smear collection kit and how to take a buccal swab sample for forensic analysis.

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