4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

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  • #1,161
Interesting that they retrieved water bottles and wrappers from his “meticulously” cleaned car. Was this BCK’s effort to keep his DNA out of curbside trash? did he intend to dispose of it elsewhere later? I thought it was unusual they found his father’s DNA in garbage but not his?

Didn't they find dad's DNA before either Kohberger ever arrived back in PA?
 
  • #1,162
He could have cleaned the car after the murders but if the vehicle is stopped in Indiana, just driving it across country could get it dirty on the outside--and full of trash on the inside from eating and drinking in the car.
Yes, I realize that, but what I was particularly noticing was the grimy fingerprint-ish black-ish marks around the door handle, which to me, look like they'd been there a long time, not just slushy road dirt.. but could just be the pics I suppose.
 
  • #1,163
Can someone please remind me, or summarise, what *was* the point of the road trip that BK and his father went on as far as we know? What explanation was given to the police at the stops they had and what do people think the intention was?

Driving home from school. They told one officer they were coming from WSU, going to PA.

According to MSM (I don't have a link, so IMO) the pair had planned this trip before BK went to WA. Dad drove with him on the way out; flew home. Then dad flew out and drove with home back home (I believe they took two different routes and the idea was some sightseeing/father-son bonding time).

IMO.
 
  • #1,164
Two thoughts: I'm not certain a stabbed victim would thud. :( But perhaps if stabbed and then thrown off, it might.

So... thud could be a body but also, a jump from a third floor balcony would generate a thud. Could BK have turned around in the kitchen after D saw him, returned to the third floor in search of his sheath and exited by way of the 3rd floor sliders/deck? Could that be what set Murphy off, if it was Murphy's barking which was captured?
That camera is on the front of the neighbors house and faces away from the victims house. I have never thought it could pick up someone falling in that house, IMO it something outside possibly the killer slamming his/her truck after stashing clothes and the murder weapon in there MOO IMO
This is really just me thinking out loud. The area is known for parties. LE was called to the victim's house multiple times for noise complaints. Would the neighbor's camera pick up all of that constant noise? Recording constantly? I doubt any of this is relevant, but considering the apparent, regular, loud noises emanating from that home and possibly others, IMO, it seems a bit much to have it set for that level of sensitivity.
Exactly...back to my thoughts above. IF it was so sensitive that it could pick up a fall in a house behind them with the camera speaker not even facing that property it would pick up car noises, the wind, birds, parties, peoples intimate situations and every other sound. The recordings for the home owner would be loud and distorted, and worthless. IMO MOO no way the thud came from inside 1122
I always greet a delivery driver and give him a tip :)
Same here Dotta a cash tip and a personal thank you, plus I personally dont want my food left outside unattended for even a couple of mins.
 
  • #1,165
That box wasn’t a common pattern prior to covid. You’d usually have to explicitly say that in the notes part of your address or call your driver. The reason for this was money lost from misdeliveries. A driver greeting a customer mitigates that. It’s a confirmation that the home is correct and people can’t say they didn’t get it.

When COVID hit some app makers have found that no contact deliveries actually made their drivers more efficient. They could make more deliveries and handle higher volume. Which outweighed the cost of misdeliveries. So now it’s becoming more of the rule rather than the exception.

Not necessarily related but thought I’d share since it’s such an interesting story. I’m a product experience executive in tech.

Oh and we get our stuff delivered to other houses all the time. I thought a bigger number up front and a super detailed note to driver would help but NOPE!

There was almost no DoorDash where I live, before COVID. There was only one restaurant on their list that we liked - but it stopped using DoorDash.

So really, there was just only GrubHub (and I could also just say "drop it off on the front porch; don't knock) in the instruction box, so that's what we did. Now we have three different food delivery services (at least), and DoorDash is the one that covers the largest area (for an upcharge, I can get Indian food from a nearby town - it's like $2 more than local).

I do see the DoorDash guy take a picture of the food though (GrubHub deliverers don't seem to).

The whole situation is very interesting - we have Instacart delivering from the take-out sections of grocery stores, and it also delivers from various other businesses around town. All day long, deliveries in our neighborhood. I always wonder if all the delivery people have dash cams (you'd think they'd make them do that to reduce liability).

Almost all my students say they use a food delivery service at least once a week. Things are very different to when I was in college.

Looks like this thread settled several minor issues about the evidence - but all of those issues will almost certainly come up again and again. People made it sound as if the DoorDash warrant was super broad but it apparently was only broad as to time and only about the one driver? They wanted to compare his driving patterns while working to those of Bryan Kohberger, so as not to be accused of a less than thorough investigation, is my guess. Much ado about nothing, except that it's interesting.

IMO
 
  • #1,166
There were other officers and forensic ISP on the scene when Payne arrived at 4pm, as per PCA. Nothing to suggest that police and investigators had only just arrived. I'm sure that police arrived very soon after the 911 call and began their work. Ofcourse I can't be certain but I think detectives would also have been on the scene by then. Certainly the ISP were. There would have been a lot to do there, including dealing/talking with and helping the survivors.

"On November 13,2022, at approximately 4:00
p.m., Moscow Police Department (MPD)
Sergeant Blaker and I responded to ll22KingRoad,
Moscow, Idaho, hereafter the "King Road
Residence," to assist with scene security and
processing of a crime scene associated with four
homicides. Upon our arrival, the Idaho State Police (lSP) Forensic team was on scene and was'preparing
to begin processing the scene. MPD Officer (OFC)
Smith, one of the initial respondingofficers to
the incident,
advised he would walk me through
the scene."
I did not intend to suggest that LE in general had only just arrived. It's just interesting to me that the person who actually wrote the affidavit is an officer who arrived much later.
 
  • #1,167
A clear picture of the likely camera IMO

Compare the captions attached to the images with the information about the camera that captured the thud in the PCA. I at one point had all of the information about that camera via an Amazon link but have since lost it.

It can be activated by audio. The video resolution is awful.
I have a question, if you can help, TIA

Did the neighbor's house possibly have more than one camera? You can clearly see the one at their "front" door attached under the light. In this picture, from the opposite side of their house and closer to Xana's room, does that look like another camera circled in red?
 

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  • #1,168
That makes logical sense as an answer. But I'm not sure it would convince jurors who have a distrust of indirect "circumstantial" evidence or who want a case proven beyond all doubt. Even on WS sometimes there's a bias against evidence if it's circumstantial (or called circumstantial.) And people here likely know more about criminal trials than the average person called for jury duty.

Still, I admit I was a bit surprised to hear that concern from a fellow juror as we'd heard pretty compelling evidence for 5 full days. But I was more dismayed during another trial to hear "the police wouldn't have arrested him unless he was guilty" from a fellow juror during deliberations. So you never know what people are thinking.
JMO
The number of people who still think that way even after numerous cases where someone else was proven to be guilty, is sadly astonishing.
 
  • #1,169
IDK if this has already been broken out like this, but the scope and dates from the warrants are quite interesting, and since the supporting affidavits are sealed, we can't know the reasons but those affidavits would explain how and why LE specified the dates.

These are not spitballs imo jmo. LE has reason to start the dates where they did and why they did. places to be searched, things to be seized, nexus to crime.

Kaylee reddit 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.1.22, motion for extension 12.14)

BK Google. 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 1.3.23


Kaylee google 8.1.2022 Warrant dated 12.5.22

Kaylee Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 11.29.22.

Maddie Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.6.22


BK Tinder 6.1.2022. Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox)

BK Yik Yak 6.1.2022 (edited to add). Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox)

Tinder 19 or 20 redacted 11.3.2022. Warrant dated 12.6.22

THIS: Tinder from March 1, 2021 to March 31, 2021 for 20 redacted accounts - that's not just LE being Tinder curious imo (last match warrant). warrant dated 12.22.2022


Kaylee Yahoo 8.1.2022 (date of warrant 12.1, so not of the original group - maybe b/c of something they found?)

T-mobile 8.1.2022 and only two numbers (there was also a data dump warrant) (subscriber name unknown - were these burners?)

Apple started 8.1.2022
Am Ex 9.1.2022
BofA 9.1.2022
Banner 9.1.2022
Discover 9.1.2022
Wells 9.1.2022
Umpqua 9.1.2022
Potlatch 9.1.2022
Numerica 9.1.2022
Elan (K only) 9.1.2022
Idaho central CU 9.1.2022
Paypal/Block started 9.1.2022

Snapchat 8.1.2022 (Maddie's was separate, then another for X, E, K an 3 redacted)

Charter 9.14.2022-11.14.2022

and of course door dash 1.1.2022

Dropbox anonymous and warrant dated 1.25.2023

I plan to keep going through these to glean more, but there is way more than we know imo jmo, and LE could not get those warrants by pulling dates out of the clouds. no wonder they sealed the affidavits and redacted so much.

edited to add financial dates, editing to update dates on warrants b/c then we can see when LE had new PC for affidavits/warrants. note the dropbox dates. looks like a CI to me. jmo imo ime
 
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  • #1,170
There was almost no DoorDash where I live, before COVID. There was only one restaurant on their list that we liked - but it stopped using DoorDash.

So really, there was just only GrubHub (and I could also just say "drop it off on the front porch; don't knock) in the instruction box, so that's what we did. Now we have three different food delivery services (at least), and DoorDash is the one that covers the largest area (for an upcharge, I can get Indian food from a nearby town - it's like $2 more than local).

I do see the DoorDash guy take a picture of the food though (GrubHub deliverers don't seem to).

The whole situation is very interesting - we have Instacart delivering from the take-out sections of grocery stores, and it also delivers from various other businesses around town. All day long, deliveries in our neighborhood. I always wonder if all the delivery people have dash cams (you'd think they'd make them do that to reduce liability).

Almost all my students say they use a food delivery service at least once a week. Things are very different to when I was in college.

Looks like this thread settled several minor issues about the evidence - but all of those issues will almost certainly come up again and again. People made it sound as if the DoorDash warrant was super broad but it apparently was only broad as to time and only about the one driver? They wanted to compare his driving patterns while working to those of Bryan Kohberger, so as not to be accused of a less than thorough investigation, is my guess. Much ado about nothing, except that it's interesting.

IMO
He was in the area, going right up to the home, immediately before the crime. They'd be opening themselves up to all kinds of defense strategies if they HADN'T turned the driver's life inside-out and proven he couldn't be the one who did it. I'm sure it was incredibly unpleasant for him, but they couldn't leave him uninvestigated. Otherwise, all the defense would have to do to create reasonable doubt would be to ask the investigators on the stand about what they'd done to exclude him, and imply to a jury that he hadn't been thoroughly ruled out.

MOO
 
  • #1,171
I always greet a delivery driver and give him a tip :)

I would never go to the door with cash - we leave our tip with the e-order. We have two loud dogs that make any kind of cordial greeting at the door impossible - no driver likes to be screamed at by Snoopy. Also, I really don't want to interact with strangers these days.

I am now so curious how many of these drivers (nearly all of ours have out-of-California phone numbers) have dash cams. I'm guessing very few.

I did not intend to suggest that LE in general had only just arrived. It's just interesting to me that the person who actually wrote the affidavit is an officer who arrived much later.

Fresh eyes and different training/abilities. I have mentioned before that report and affidavit writing is a particular skillset, often given to younger, less experienced officers in the investigative unit. The kinds of questions that newcomers ask can be helpful and since the affidavit does have to be read by a higher-up, there can be some training involved.

Being able to write a coherent affidavit is a sought-after skill with most LE departments, and not everyone is good at it (basic spelling and grammar in written form are a problem for some). A crime scene summary report is usually written by someone who is guided through the site by the principal investigators, is a good observer, is able to formulate questions, take notes and then write or dictate a report. This one had some minor errors, but wasn't too bad.

And no point in such a person arriving before the actual investigators and forensic crime scene data collectors have gotten the bulk of their work done - just another person in the way.

IME, IMPO.
 
  • #1,172
Neither did I! Maybe it's kinda like dashcam...
Jennifer Dulos of New Canaan CT, was murdered by her husband. He was nailed by cameras, but one camera set was a school bus newly outfitted with front and back cameras.
 
  • #1,173
I would never go to the door with cash - we leave our tip with the e-order. We have two loud dogs that make any kind of cordial greeting at the door impossible - no driver likes to be screamed at by Snoopy. Also, I really don't want to interact with strangers these days.
RSBM

My mum has a Pom cross Silky. Our days are loud. The cats, the neighbours, the buses that pass every twenty minutes are the enemy, but delivery people are INVADERS. So, so much shout from such a tiny dog.

Tipping isn't really a thing out there, but I do always try to greet delivery people warmly, and thank them - even if thanking them sometimes means yelling 'thank you' at a rapidly departing figure most of the way back to their vehicle.

While distancing was great for door stuff in some ways - so many fewer parcels I had to go to the post office to collect because they'd just leave them, almost nobody trying to sell you something - I do prefer people to at least knock. Especially with groceries. The other week, a whole grocery load was left on the porch two hours early without even so much as a text! I had ice cream in there. And a whole chicken. And it's Australia in the summer! We were lucky we looked out the window and saw the bags.

I would be interested in learning whether the food delivery was just left, or whether it was delivered directly to Xana. I'm leaning to the latter, but if both are options, it could have been either.
 
  • #1,174
RSBM

My mum has a Pom cross Silky. Our days are loud. The cats, the neighbours, the buses that pass every twenty minutes are the enemy, but delivery people are INVADERS. So, so much shout from such a tiny dog.

Tipping isn't really a thing out there, but I do always try to greet delivery people warmly, and thank them - even if thanking them sometimes means yelling 'thank you' at a rapidly departing figure most of the way back to their vehicle.

While distancing was great for door stuff in some ways - so many fewer parcels I had to go to the post office to collect because they'd just leave them, almost nobody trying to sell you something - I do prefer people to at least knock. Especially with groceries. The other week, a whole grocery load was left on the porch two hours early without even so much as a text! I had ice cream in there. And a whole chicken. And it's Australia in the summer! We were lucky we looked out the window and saw the bags.

I would be interested in learning whether the food delivery was just left, or whether it was delivered directly to Xana. I'm leaning to the latter, but if both are options, it could have been either.

Yeah, DH always goes to grab the food and shout THANK YOU, the delivery people are so quiet and fast most of the time.

Our older dog (not the one in my avatar) is a Pom. How did you know? SO loud. We have a vibrating collar on the other dog (American Eskimo - related broadly to Pomeranians, but more wolf or fox-like) as that dog goes psycho at delivery people. We got a delivery of two ice cream sandwiches the other day (we didn't order them) and didn't notice them until the next day. Someone else must have been disappointed.

I too would like to know if the 1122 King Road food was directly handed off or dropped off and if so, where (back of the house leading to the second floor entrance where Xana actually lived was accessible - that's how BK went in). It's so hard to picture BK coming into the house, barely missing the driver (and Xana, if he did) and then going upstairs. Perhaps he watched the delivery take place, saw that Xana had gone back to her room, thought things were now quiet (but Xana may have started back out the door as he was coming down the stairs). I fear we'll never know, esp. if BK takes a deal.

IMO.
 
  • #1,175
Yeah, DH always goes to grab the food and shout THANK YOU, the delivery people are so quiet and fast most of the time.

Our older dog (not the one in my avatar) is a Pom. How did you know? SO loud. We have a vibrating collar on the other dog (American Eskimo - related broadly to Pomeranians, but more wolf or fox-like) as that dog goes psycho at delivery people. We got a delivery of two ice cream sandwiches the other day (we didn't order them) and didn't notice them until the next day. Someone else must have been disappointed.

I too would like to know if the 1122 King Road food was directly handed off or dropped off and if so, where (back of the house leading to the second floor entrance where Xana actually lived was accessible - that's how BK went in). It's so hard to picture BK coming into the house, barely missing the driver (and Xana, if he did) and then going upstairs. Perhaps he watched the delivery take place, saw that Xana had gone back to her room, thought things were now quiet (but Xana may have started back out the door as he was coming down the stairs). I fear we'll never know, esp. if BK takes a deal.

IMO.
My cutest little doggie is sooo happy seeing the delivery guy, he is usually rolling with excitement.
He is convinced the food is for him!
And guess what, our usual D man brought him also a snack just yesterday :)
"On the house Ma'am"
 
  • #1,176
Yeah, DH always goes to grab the food and shout THANK YOU, the delivery people are so quiet and fast most of the time.

Our older dog (not the one in my avatar) is a Pom. How did you know? SO loud. We have a vibrating collar on the other dog (American Eskimo - related broadly to Pomeranians, but more wolf or fox-like) as that dog goes psycho at delivery people. We got a delivery of two ice cream sandwiches the other day (we didn't order them) and didn't notice them until the next day. Someone else must have been disappointed.

I too would like to know if the 1122 King Road food was directly handed off or dropped off and if so, where (back of the house leading to the second floor entrance where Xana actually lived was accessible - that's how BK went in). It's so hard to picture BK coming into the house, barely missing the driver (and Xana, if he did) and then going upstairs. Perhaps he watched the delivery take place, saw that Xana had gone back to her room, thought things were now quiet (but Xana may have started back out the door as he was coming down the stairs). I fear we'll never know, esp. if BK takes a deal.

IMO.
I had standard poodles (four of them, one after the other, last two were rescues) before this, and I thought THEY were loud. (And they are. Beautiful, goofy, high energy dogs that just love being with people, but very vocal, especially when excited or bored.) Murphy looks so much like my late pups, though all my standards were white (though the last one, my real rough-start rescue boy, had quite a lot of ginger highlights in his coat).

I just can't see someone in the dead of night walking around the house and up the hill in the dark with their arms full of paper bags of food to get to the sliding door. There was snow here and there on the ground, no path... it's just a slip and fall waiting to happen. Down you go, crash, wet, muddy, spoiled food, and you might have turned your ankle into the bargain.

I can't see Xana wanting him to bang on the front door at 4am either, though, with her housemate sleeping right there. If she got a message 'food's here' though, and went down quickly and quietly, opened the door, took the food, thanked the driver, then went back up the stairs to the kitchen, I can see that. I know when I've ordered KFC delivery out here, the driver will often text me when they park outside my house.

MOO
 
  • #1,177
RSBM

My mum has a Pom cross Silky. Our days are loud. The cats, the neighbours, the buses that pass every twenty minutes are the enemy, but delivery people are INVADERS. So, so much shout from such a tiny dog.

Tipping isn't really a thing out there, but I do always try to greet delivery people warmly, and thank them - even if thanking them sometimes means yelling 'thank you' at a rapidly departing figure most of the way back to their vehicle.

While distancing was great for door stuff in some ways - so many fewer parcels I had to go to the post office to collect because they'd just leave them, almost nobody trying to sell you something - I do prefer people to at least knock. Especially with groceries. The other week, a whole grocery load was left on the porch two hours early without even so much as a text! I had ice cream in there. And a whole chicken. And it's Australia in the summer! We were lucky we looked out the window and saw the bags.

I would be interested in learning whether the food delivery was just left, or whether it was delivered directly to Xana. I'm leaning to the latter, but if both are options, it could have been either.
I got very few deliveries before Covid hit. Then I had them coming left and right from UPS, FedEx, pet food, Amazon, library deliveries and pick ups, etc. I decided to create a sign that says "Thank you! You're appreciated!!!" and prettied it up with cutouts from cards I had recently received to give it some color (I don't have a color printer). Even though it's a small gesture, I'm hoping that it helps make someone's day. :) If I hear them out there I'll open the door and holler "Thank you!" as they walk back to their vehicle. It's the best I can do to let them know that I appreciate them.
 
  • #1,178
Didn't they find dad's DNA before either Kohberger ever arrived back in PA?
This has been a point of contention, but IMO no. Dad‘s DNA was taken from the garbage (at the neighbors). The sample was flown back to Idaho on the same airplane that would a short time later transport BCK back to Idaho.

Quoted from the affidavit:

“On December 27, 2022, Pennsylvania Agents recovered the trash from the Kohberger family residence located in Albrightsville, PA. That evidence was sent to the Idaho State Lab for testing. On December 28,2022, the Idaho State Lab reported that a DNA profile obtained from the trash and the DNA profile obtained from the sheath, identified a male as not being excluded as the bioiogical father of Suspect Profile. At least 99.9998% of the male population would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of being the suspect's biological father.”

MOO
 
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  • #1,179
I had standard poodles (four of them, one after the other, last two were rescues) before this, and I thought THEY were loud. (And they are. Beautiful, goofy, high energy dogs that just love being with people, but very vocal, especially when excited or bored.) Murphy looks so much like my late pups, though all my standards were white (though the last one, my real rough-start rescue boy, had quite a lot of ginger highlights in his coat).

I just can't see someone in the dead of night walking around the house and up the hill in the dark with their arms full of paper bags of food to get to the sliding door. There was snow here and there on the ground, no path... it's just a slip and fall waiting to happen. Down you go, crash, wet, muddy, spoiled food, and you might have turned your ankle into the bargain.

I can't see Xana wanting him to bang on the front door at 4am either, though, with her housemate sleeping right there. If she got a message 'food's here' though, and went down quickly and quietly, opened the door, took the food, thanked the driver, then went back up the stairs to the kitchen, I can see that. I know when I've ordered KFC delivery out here, the driver will often text me when they park outside my house.

MOO
Good point.

DoorDash texts people about their orders.

Even if the order was left on the porch she would likely have received a text update and retrieved it immediately, at 4:00am. This is plenty of time for the killer to miss the DD guy. It only takes A hot minute to drop off food.

And I agree, no way to drop off delivery in the back. A delivery person needs a well lighted area and clear normal path to walk on. We always make sure our porch light is on, our driveway is shoveled with clear path and is not slippery, our steps are salted, and if steps are too slippery we tell them to not go up them and stand next to them and knock on the bottom of the door.

There is no normal path to the back sliding glass door. It is basically an unpaved hill you would have to walk up through snow, slippery, not realistic for deliveries in the dark in winter. With a handful of food it sounds like a slip and fall accident waiting to happen.

2 Cents
 
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  • #1,180
>>updating with add'l dates. sorry for duplicate but timer ran out on edit and I want to include warrant dates b/c they tell a story

These are not spitballs imo jmo. LE has reason to start the dates where they did and why they did. places to be searched, things to be seized, nexus to crime.

edited to add financial dates, editing to update dates on warrants b/c then we can see when LE had new PC for affidavits/warrants. note the dropbox dates. looks like a CI to me. jmo imo ime

Kaylee reddit 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.1.22, motion for extension 12.14

BK Google. 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 1.3.23


Kaylee google 8.1.2022 Warrant dated 12.5.22

Kaylee Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 11.29.22.

Maddie Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.6.22


BK Tinder 6.1.2022. Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox)

BK Yik Yak 6.1.2022 (edited to add). Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox)

Tinder 19 or 20 redacted 11.3.2022. Warrant dated 12.6.22 same date as Door Dash

Door Dash 1.1.2022
Warrant dated 12.6.22 - same date as anonymous Tinder -
this is significant. The courts do not just randomly hit Tinder accounts because no one wants to see all those pics.. imo jmo lol.

Dropbox anonymous and warrant dated 1.25.2023

THIS: Tinder from March 1, 2021 to March 31, 2021 for 20 redacted accounts - that's not just LE being Tinder curious imo (last match warrant). warrant dated 12.22.2022

Kaylee Yahoo 8.1.2022
(date of warrant 12.1.22, so not of the original group - maybe b/c of something they found?)

T-mobile 8.1.2022 and only two numbers (there was also a data dump warrant) (subscriber name unknown - were these burners?) warrant 11.16.22 potentially something of interest from the data dump?

looks like the first round of warrants went out 11.21 - makes sense, pre-BK

Apple started 8.1.2022.
Am Ex 9.1.2022
BofA 9.1.2022
Banner 9.1.2022
Discover 9.1.2022
Wells 9.1.2022
Umpqua 9.1.2022
Potlatch 9.1.2022
Numerica 9.1.2022
Elan (K only) 9.1.2022
Idaho central CU 9.1.2022
Paypal/Block started 9.1.2022

Snapchat 8.1.2022 (Maddie's was separate, then another for X, E, K an 3 redacted)

Charter 9.14.2022-11.14.2022

I plan to keep going through these to glean more, but there is way more than we know imo jmo, and LE could not get those warrants by pulling dates out of the clouds. no wonder they sealed the affidavits and redacted so much.
 
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