4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

[maconrich]

I was thinking it was something of a more lurid nature because his yik yak and tinder came at the same time but that's a leap and ICBW

Ok, so less about the murders and possibly more about things of a lurid nature which may or may not have anything to do with the victims (outside of speculation).

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Very helpful! thank you.

We were thinking the same. Both photos of his route in the PCA say not to scale. It sure does look like it goes off to the east though. I looked up Blaine idaho to Genessee and found there are two roads to go...one way takes that outward, off to the east route. MOO

Looking at the Historical CSLI of Dec 23rd: (Jepop mentioned earlier)
November 13th 12:36 Kates in Clarkston, then albertsons, then leaves at 1:04
5:32-5:36 Near Johnson Idaho
5:36 to 8:30 phone stops reporting.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

Approximately 4 1/2 hours down the road from Clarkston the phone stops reporting near Johnson ID: if he goes straight he ends up in Horseshoebend when his phone stops reporting. If he turns left on Garden Valley, up ahead is the Boise National Forest. Really, he could have gone anywhere since his phone stopped reporting for 3 hours, and they do not mention when or where it starts reporting again. MOO

Retracing Bryan Kohberger's alleged route on night of Idaho murders

DailyMail.com drove the route police claim Idaho murder suspect, Bryan Kohberger, took to and from the quadruple homicide home on November 13.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I found this interesting, too, from the article, jmo imo

There were no street lights or street signs along much of the drive and the roads were narrow and full of deep potholes in places.

When DailyMail.com took the drive in broad daylight, it was desolate and easy to miss turns. However, in darkness, it was near impossible to see and required driving well below the speed limit in order not to accidentally drive into the deep irrigation trenches that lined the road on both sides.

Without the help of GPS, it would have been extremely difficult to get from point A to point B without intimate knowledge of the area. Bearing that in mind, it's possible that the suspect's phone was allegedly turned back on or taken out of airplane mode to utilize the GPS. Police said Kohberger's phone pinged a cell phone tower south of Moscow, Idaho at 4.48am.
There were no street lights or street signs along much of the drive and the roads were narrow and full of deep potholes in places.

When DailyMail.com took the drive in broad daylight, it was desolate and easy to miss turns. However, in darkness, it was near impossible to see and required driving well below the speed limit in order not to accidentally drive into the deep irrigation trenches that lined the road on both sides.

Without the help of GPS, it would have been extremely difficult to get from point A to point B without intimate knowledge of the area. Bearing that in mind, it's possible that the suspect's phone was allegedly turned back on or taken out of airplane mode to utilize the GPS. Police said Kohberger's phone pinged a cell phone tower south of Moscow, Idaho at 4.48am.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Ok, so less about the murders and possibly more about things of a lurid nature which may or may not have anything to do with the victims (outside of speculation).

my guess: both, based on the rolling up in WA time frame but this is only a guess. jmo imo.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Very helpful! thank you.

We were thinking the same. Both photos of his route in the PCA say not to scale. It sure does look like it goes off to the east though. I looked up Blaine idaho to Genessee and found there are two roads to go...one way takes that outward, off to the east route. MOO

Looking at the Historical CSLI of Dec 23rd: (Jepop mentioned earlier)
November 13th 12:36 Kates in Clarkston, then albertsons, then leaves at 1:04
5:32-5:36 Near Johnson Idaho
5:36 to 8:30 phone stops reporting.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

Approximately 4 1/2 hours down the road from Clarkston the phone stops reporting near Johnson ID: if he goes straight he ends up in Horseshoebend when his phone stops reporting. If he turns left on Garden Valley, up ahead is the Boise National Forest. Really, he could have gone anywhere since his phone stopped reporting for 3 hours, and they do not mention when or where it starts reporting again. MOO

You're welcome. I agree he could have disposed of items from the crime scene literally anywhere in all those miles of wilderness in all those hours afterwards, and they will never be found.

Unless LE has been following "the bread crumbs" left by when his cell phone did ping (and where it was when it was off those times / locations noted ETA: and for how long) and have good reasons to have been in communication with Idaho Fish and Game because they are following some leads on areas he may have gone during that loop he drove where they have "game cams" or other surveillance cameras at the entrances to hiking trails or at fishing spots or wherever that may have captured him doing (some more of) his dirty work.

All MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Is there an article I can look at for what SG said? In the meantime, I will try to find. I would be most interested to know how SG 'knew' these attempts had been made specifically by BK.

ETA: I have looked for articles wherein SG said BK's phone had tried to connect to 1122's internet.. not successful.. horrible sleuther.. can someone please lead me to those articles? TIA!!

Kaylee Goncalves' father assumed suspect followed victims before Moscow murders

"I miss what she meant to the family," Steve Goncalves said about the loss of his daughter. "She knew how to make memories."

www.king5.com

Author: Morgan Romero - King5 News
Published: 9:27 PM PST January 8, 2023

“He was close enough that he was touching their wi-fi," Goncalves said.

In this video Steve Goncalves says it himself:

"Ya, close enough that he, he was touching their WiFi, his phone was touching their WiFi."

"Ya, so you know how close that is if you've had a laptop and you walk out into your front yard your not going to get too far."

Seattle, Washington KING-TV

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Retracing Bryan Kohberger's alleged route on night of Idaho murders

DailyMail.com drove the route police claim Idaho murder suspect, Bryan Kohberger, took to and from the quadruple homicide home on November 13.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I found this interesting, too, from the article, jmo imo

There were no street lights or street signs along much of the drive and the roads were narrow and full of deep potholes in places.

When DailyMail.com took the drive in broad daylight, it was desolate and easy to miss turns. However, in darkness, it was near impossible to see and required driving well below the speed limit in order not to accidentally drive into the deep irrigation trenches that lined the road on both sides.

Without the help of GPS, it would have been extremely difficult to get from point A to point B without intimate knowledge of the area. Bearing that in mind, it's possible that the suspect's phone was allegedly turned back on or taken out of airplane mode to utilize the GPS. Police said Kohberger's phone pinged a cell phone tower south of Moscow, Idaho at 4.48am.
There were no street lights or street signs along much of the drive and the roads were narrow and full of deep potholes in places.

When DailyMail.com took the drive in broad daylight, it was desolate and easy to miss turns. However, in darkness, it was near impossible to see and required driving well below the speed limit in order not to accidentally drive into the deep irrigation trenches that lined the road on both sides.

Without the help of GPS, it would have been extremely difficult to get from point A to point B without intimate knowledge of the area. Bearing that in mind, it's possible that the suspect's phone was allegedly turned back on or taken out of airplane mode to utilize the GPS. Police said Kohberger's phone pinged a cell phone tower south of Moscow, Idaho at 4.48am.

Thanks for this, SGH. Wouldn't it be ironic ("but good, but good!") if BK's choice of rough wilderness terrain and roads to drive on and get rid of crime scene evidence "off the grid" were soooo rough and wild and in the darkness and in his state he started to get lost and had to turn on his cellphone for GPS to help him get back home, and that led to LE being able to track his movements down there more than he had planned for?
Edited to delete (ETD) attempt at humorous ending channeling Snidely Whiplash without permission and replace with "chuckles". JMO

 

[Trebor5591]

Sure: here are a few.

Taking his phone with him.
Turning his phone off.
Driving his own car.
His erratic driving around the house prior to parking.
Parking so close to the house.
Not avoiding the cameras in the neighborhood.
Leaving his sheath.
Leaving his dna on the sheath.
Wearing shoes with a distinquishable, patented sole.
Speeding away from the crime scene.
Coming back to the house the next day.

MOO
edit: added dna on sheath

you make a lot of good points, however there is no evidence BK has " shoes with a distinguishable, patented sole" (so far as I know). To, me the smoking gun is the DNA on the knife sheath. IMO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Thanks for this, SGH. Wouldn't it be ironic ("but good, but good!") if BK's choice of rough wilderness terrain and roads to drive on and get rid of crime scene evidence "off the grid" were soooo rough and wild and in the darkness and in his state he started to get lost and had to turn on his cellphone for GPS to help him get back home, and that led to LE being able to track his movements down there more than he had planned for? <rubbing hands together with a Snidely Whiplash wheezy snicker> JMO

I pride myself on being particularly evil lol but I never even considered wishing 'lost in the dark off the grid' on someone.

I have driven a lot of backroads in the PNW and western states, and there are literally warnings not to get off the road because there are no services, and don't even think about cell signal. jmo ime

 

[CGray123]

You're welcome. I agree he could have disposed of items from the crime scene literally anywhere in all those miles of wilderness in all those hours afterwards, and they will never be found.

Unless LE has been following "the bread crumbs" left by when his cell phone did ping (and where it was when it was off those times / locations noted ETA: and for how long) and have good reasons to have been in communication with Idaho Fish and Game because they are following some leads on areas he may have gone during that loop he drove where they have "game cams" or other surveillance cameras at the entrances to hiking trails or at fishing spots or wherever that may have captured him doing (some more of) his dirty work.

All MOO

I wonder if it's easier to search an area like this now than it was before well-equipped drones. I also wonder if non-LE drone flyers are trying their hand at finding the knife and the overalls....

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

you make a lot of good points, however there is no evidence BK has " shoes with a distinguishable, patented sole" (so far as I know). To, me the smoking gun is the DNA on the knife sheath. IMO

actually, the PCA mentions a Vans like print, diamond-shaped pattern, and those are very distinctive, and of course, almost any shoe can be IDd by the FBI

and to clarify: we don't even know the car is his much less that he drove it, so to assume those things would require that we also assume he was potentially wearing those distinctive-soled shoes. As to what shoes he actually owns, obv IDK and the search warrant receipts don't specify Vans (WA doesn't even list shoes taken) and PA lists multiple boots and New Balance shoes)

A handgun, knives, and a drawing were taken from the Poconos home where the man accused of killing 4 Idaho college students was arrested

Bryan Kohberger is accused of killing University of Idaho students Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin.

www.inquirer.com

Forensic Databases: Paint, Shoe Prints, and Beyond

A detective working a missing persons case undoubtedly knows how to make the most of databases such as the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) and the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS), but does he or she know how to investigate a paint chip, a tire track, an ink...

nij.ojp.gov

Also, the DNA on the sheath is touch DNA and @BeginnerSleuther has shared links re its fallibility. The WA state search warrant (see page 6 application for search warrant asks that the DNA be excluded as evidence supporting probable cause. so jmo imo not what LE considered the smoking gun, and Imo jmo it will be interesting to see how that plays out in court.

(https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search warrant for bryan kohberger apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I pride myself on being particularly evil lol but I never even considered wishing 'lost in the dark off the grid' on someone.

I have driven a lot of backroads in the PNW and western states, and there are literally warnings not to get off the road because there are no services, and don't even think about cell signal. jmo ime

Same here, I wouldn't wish it on anyone innocent or unsuspecting, it can be really scary and panic-inducing.

But if someone like BK only ventured out there for nefarious purposes and was a bit "unequipped" to deal with the environment he put himself in (alone in the middle of the night in late Fall with below freezing temps driving a used sedan on rough back roads with no GPS/cell service), then too bad/too sad, dude. jmo!

 

[Trebor5591]

He was observed by LE placing his trash in his neighbor’s trash can. Also, inside his home he was seen organizing trash into separate zip loc baggies. I’m not sure if I would call these specific things “mistakes” or if I’d call it incriminating behavior.

Anyone have any idea what the "organizing trash into separate zip loc baggies" means?

 

[Trebor5591]

actually, the PCA mentions a Vans like print, diamond-shaped pattern, and those are very distinctive, and of course, almost any shoe can be IDd by the FBI

Forensic Databases: Paint, Shoe Prints, and Beyond

A detective working a missing persons case undoubtedly knows how to make the most of databases such as the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) and the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS), but does he or she know how to investigate a paint chip, a tire track, an ink...

nij.ojp.gov

Also, the DNA on the sheath is touch DNA and @BeginnerSleuther has shared links re its fallibility. The WA state search warrant (see page 6 application for search warrant asks that the DNA be excluded as evidence supporting probable cause. so jmo imo not what LE considered the smoking gun, and Imo jmo it will be interesting to see how that plays out in court.

(https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search warrant for bryan kohberger apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

Agree about the shoes distinctive tread, my point was that as far as I know, there is no evidence BK owned a pair of Vans shoes, correct?

 

[CGray123]

Retracing Bryan Kohberger's alleged route on night of Idaho murders

DailyMail.com drove the route police claim Idaho murder suspect, Bryan Kohberger, took to and from the quadruple homicide home on November 13.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I found this interesting, too, from the article, jmo imo

There were no street lights or street signs along much of the drive and the roads were narrow and full of deep potholes in places.

When DailyMail.com took the drive in broad daylight, it was desolate and easy to miss turns. However, in darkness, it was near impossible to see and required driving well below the speed limit in order not to accidentally drive into the deep irrigation trenches that lined the road on both sides.

Without the help of GPS, it would have been extremely difficult to get from point A to point B without intimate knowledge of the area. Bearing that in mind, it's possible that the suspect's phone was allegedly turned back on or taken out of airplane mode to utilize the GPS. Police said Kohberger's phone pinged a cell phone tower south of Moscow, Idaho at 4.48am.
There were no street lights or street signs along much of the drive and the roads were narrow and full of deep potholes in places.

When DailyMail.com took the drive in broad daylight, it was desolate and easy to miss turns. However, in darkness, it was near impossible to see and required driving well below the speed limit in order not to accidentally drive into the deep irrigation trenches that lined the road on both sides.

Without the help of GPS, it would have been extremely difficult to get from point A to point B without intimate knowledge of the area. Bearing that in mind, it's possible that the suspect's phone was allegedly turned back on or taken out of airplane mode to utilize the GPS. Police said Kohberger's phone pinged a cell phone tower south of Moscow, Idaho at 4.48am.

The moon was in its waning Gibbous phase on November 13, 2022 providing about 77 percent of its full light. However, it was cloudy in the 4:15 - 5:30 am time frame that morning, so the moon's light would have been obstructed to some degree. I have no reason to doubt that the DM reporter's experience of night driving the route described in the arrest affidavit was similar to BM's.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Agree about the shoes distinctive tread, my point was that as far as I know, there is no evidence BK owned a pair of Vans shoes, correct?

Oh, I see... I read it in reference to the list. I mean, we don't even know the car is his much less that he drove it, so to assume those things would require that we also assume he was potentially wearing those distinctive-soled shoes. as for what he shoes he owns, IDK and hard to say. there were shoes on the receipts (WA and PA IIRC), but IDK. I'm not even convinced there is a full footprint based on what we know and I'm not willing to assume. jmo imo and if they had a full print and ... well, I'll stop there. I just think it would be problematic if they had a full print and could have IDd the shoes but took a bunch of others jmo imo

 

[Area52]

Oh, I see... I read it in reference to the list. I mean, we don't even know the car is his much less that he drove it, so to assume those things would require that we also assume he was potentially wearing those distinctive-soled shoes. as for what he shoes he owns, IDK and hard to say. there were shoes on the receipts (WA and PA IIRC), but IDK. I'm not even convinced there is a full footprint based on what we know and I'm not willing to assume. jmo imo and if they had a full print and ... well, I'll stop there. I just think it would be problematic if they had a full print and could have IDd the shoes but took a bunch of others jmo imo

I remember a report referencing size 13 shoes. Would the fact that BK wears a size 13 narrow down the field? Is size 13 that uncommon?

 

[Gemmie]

I remember a report referencing size 13 shoes. Would the fact that BK wears a size 13 narrow down the field? Is size 13 that uncommon?

I posted about there here:

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73

Terrible handwriting. Anyone have any idea what #9 might say? I'm drawing a blank. Also, I find it interesting that they took a pair of Nike's, yet there was a "Van's-type" print in the house. Hmmm.... The Nikes were size 13. That is a BIG shoe and not that common. If the "Van's style" shoe...

www.websleuths.com

ETA - others posted too and likely had better info than my post so you could start looking around/searching that closed thread.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Kaylee Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 11.29.22
Why would they look at her Tinder right after IDing BK, why not before?

One possibility comes to mind, that they first had to establish that the suspect wasn't someone she knew from obvious sources: her ex-boyfriend, someone she worked with, someone she knew from class, etc. Only once they knew their suspect was an apparent stranger to her did they have cause to look at her Tinder account to see if she was connected to him via that option?

Just a guess, MOO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I remember a report referencing size 13 shoes. Would the fact that BK wears a size 13 narrow down the field? Is size 13 that uncommon?

somewhere up the thread are links for how height/weight can roughly be estimated from shoe print, but I think what matters most is the pattern on the sole of the shoe. So if you are looking for a Vans type shoe, then that is what narrows the field... or the warrant. There are exceptions, but in general... imo jmo

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

One possibility comes to mind, that they first had to establish that the suspect wasn't someone she knew from obvious sources: her ex-boyfriend, someone she worked with, someone she knew from class, etc. Only once they knew their suspect was an apparent stranger to her did they have cause to look at her Tinder account to see if she was connected to him via that option?

Just a guess, MOO.

I think there's a thread there... jmo imo

Kaylee reddit 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.1.22, motion for extension 12.14
Kaylee Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 11.29.22
BK Google. 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 1.3.23. (they got this as soon as they could after his arrest)