4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

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10ofRods said:
Respectfully, do you imply that others here do succumb? It sounds that way. I think most here do not want pat answers, but we do have different experiences, each of us. Your views are of course also opinion, but I'm not going to say your views are "pat." I rarely see opinions without MOO beside them. IMO.

What does ICBW mean?

I have as many lurid scenarios as anyone could want - but I agree, no need to post them. Closer to the Prelim, maybe some of us will.

Right now, I'm mulling over the information we have about BK posting on MM's Instagram (repeatedly) 3 weeks before the murders, to see what evidence I can find that would make that a weak theory. There's a bunch of other stuff like that. The search warrants issued are a big pile of hard-to-read clues, for sure.

IMO.
Click to expand...
ICBW = I could be wrong
I think, IMO
 
Sundog said:
www.foxnews.com

Idaho prosecutors disclosing info about 'internal affairs investigation' related to officer on Kohberger case

Latah County prosecutors notified a judge this week that they are disclosing "potential Brady/Giglio material" related to an officer involved in the investigation of Bryan Kohberger.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
Click to expand...

It does appear that it could be broader in scope re LE, but is sure not the way I read it, esp with the motions/orders, but we'll see. ICBW but putting it together, sure seems like it here.
 
Cool Cats said:
Without an income, apparently, Bryan has to rely on family and friends and his twisted admirers for money.

Jail is expensive. The phone calls alone are a rip off, Biden wants to get something passed to help that situation.

Then he has to pay five cents per minute just to watch old movies on a tablet. He has to pay for video calls and pay just to access his email.

Then of course he needs commissary items, not just snacks, but if this is like most jails he needs to buy necessities. Inmates normally don't get enough of the basic items they need. He is at a severe disadvantage in regards to this because other inmates can't help him out with this.

Jail items are used as currency but he is isolated from the other inmates.

2 Cents

Some inmates, in certain situations, have this to deal with:

Click to expand...
BBM

JMHO but boohoo to BK and his sad jail situation. "Admirers" huh? Paying to watch old movies? Not enough soap or water? It's jail afterall, right?

It will only get better and better for him if found guilty :D I have heard some saying that "death by firing squad" is also a possibility. Rather not have soap. JMO.
 
Sister Golden Hair said:
I also noticed this:

the second AT&T

dated 12.23 may have been Kohberger's because of the dates and they were getting ready to arrest, but can't be sure... because no name, and phone number redacted, but if the records were for someone else, then it would indicate someone else was around during that time and they had PC fr a warrant.
November 12, 2022 at 12:00 am. PST to November 14, 2022 at 12:00 am. PST

CI? imo jmo one possibility

and does that in any way relate to a bigger picture?

How is March 1-31, 2021 and how are 19-20 tinder accounts linked to this case, remembering probable cause required.... and

the Tinder warrant/motion/order also has the same reasons in the order:

Therefore, pursuant to I.C.A.R. 32(i)(2)(A) and (D) and I.C. §74-124(1)(c), the court finds it necessary to seal the records related to the search warrant for the following reasons:
  1. (1) The documents centain highly intimate facts or statements, the publication of which would be
    highly objectionable to a reasonable person;
  2. (2) The documents contain facts or statements that might threaten the safety of or endanger the life
    or safety of individuals; and
  3. (3) Disclosure would constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.

edited to add the Tinder piece
Click to expand...
The PCA explicitly lists 2 separate warrants served to AT&T. Unless I'm missing something.

The first is a request for phone numbers that connected to specific towers in the area. [Page 11]
As part of this investigation, law erforcernent obtained search warrants to deteruine cellular devices that utilized cellular towers in close proximity to the King Road Residence on...
Click to expand...
When that information was returned, they found BKs number amongst it. There's likely other people's numbers [that have been cleared] in the returned information.

The second is a request for historical phone records and cell tower data on 12/23. In the PCA they explicitly cite and tie this to BKs number [Page 12].
On December 23, 2022, I applied for and was granted a search warrant for historical phone records between November 12, 2022 at 12:00 a.m. and November 14, at 12:00 a.m. for the 8458 Phone held by the phone provider AT&T (approximately 24 hours proceeding and following the times of the homicides).

On December 23, 2022, pursuant to that search warrant, I received records for the 8458 Phone from AT&T. These records indicated that the 8458 Phone is subscribed to Bryan Kohberger at an address in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania and the account has been open since...
Click to expand...

No other numbers are mentioned. Is it possible there were other numbers of interest? Sure. Maybe.

I think the likelihood that LE dug into other phone numbers [all likely cleared] to demonstrate their due diligence and not rushing to judgement is why we have seal and redact.

MOO, of course
 
Last edited:
Cool Cats said:
Thanks.

I don't know why there was a discussion about the DNA not being a part of the probable cause.

Wait, it had to do with the judge saying it wasn't going to be counted as part of the probable cause.
I assume because it has to be proven to be BK's by an expert.

If you or anyone can find this information by the judge I'd appreciate it. Seems a bit confusing that it is in the PCA yet not being considered for searches and arrest, yet it is the DNA that led to BK being the top suspect.
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My take is the dna test result on button sheath via dad dna sample was not deemed necessary for PC for any of the WA and PA search warrants. The dna test result on the button of the sheath via da's dna was included in the affadavit for the Idaho issued arrest warrant. As soon as the arrest ocurred in PA, arresting officers collected BK's dna via swabs as permitted by the PA search warrant for BK's person. MOO based on reading of the warrants.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The discussion was regarding the specific results of the dna test done on the sheath button using the trash dna sample (BK's dad's dna). This specific test result was deemed by the WA judge to be unnecessary for PC for the search warrant at BK's Washington Residence.

p6,Judges ruling; pp14-15 - Supplemental Disclosure re dna test result.

www.documentcloud.org

Kohberger warrant

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org

In the application for search warrant of the PA residence, BK's vehicle and BK's person, the section of the PCA dealing with how the dna on the sheath button was tested via the dad's dna collected from the trash, was not included or officially referred to in the paper work. The PA judge found probable cause for the search warrants to be executed.

Application for PA Search Warrant. pp10-27 for PCA.


The arrest warrant issued by an Idaho judge relied on the "Affadavit" listed at the top in the court documents for this case. Below the Affadavit are listed the "Probable Cause Order" and the "Arrest Warrant". The Affadavit supporting the Arrest Warrant includes the information on the dna test result on the button sheath and the methodilogy of using trash gathered from PA residence on 27th December to identify BK's dna on the button via the dad's dna sample found in the trash.

 
Sister Golden Hair said:
I also noticed this:

the second AT&T

dated 12.23 may have been Kohberger's because of the dates and they were getting ready to arrest, but can't be sure... because no name, and phone number redacted, but if the records were for someone else, then it would indicate someone else was around during that time and they had PC fr a warrant.
November 12, 2022 at 12:00 am. PST to November 14, 2022 at 12:00 am. PST

CI? imo jmo one possibility

and does that in any way relate to a bigger picture?

How is March 1-31, 2021 and how are 19-20 tinder accounts linked to this case, remembering probable cause required.... and

the Tinder warrant/motion/order also has the same reasons in the order:

Therefore, pursuant to I.C.A.R. 32(i)(2)(A) and (D) and I.C. §74-124(1)(c), the court finds it necessary to seal the records related to the search warrant for the following reasons:
  1. (1) The documents centain highly intimate facts or statements, the publication of which would be
    highly objectionable to a reasonable person;
  2. (2) The documents contain facts or statements that might threaten the safety of or endanger the life
    or safety of individuals; and
  3. (3) Disclosure would constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.

edited to add the Tinder piece
Click to expand...
BBM: Cos coinciding with PCA info, I think the 23rd December Warrant fot AT&T is for records from BK's account with that company. It is how LE acquired the the 12 pre-crime pings data as per PCA and confirmed that BK's phone did not connect to the network between c 2.48am and 4.48am on Nov13th. x2 warrants are mentioned in the PCA for AT& T for BK's phone number as attached to his Acc. I've speculated elsewhere that the sealed and undated AT&T warrant could be the second warrant LE got on 23rd December as per PCA. MOO.

23rd Dec AT&T Warrant for unknown number, probably warrant for BK acc as per PCA.

Sealed AT&T warrant, speculated may be second warrant applied for on 23rd DEc for BK's historical ping data, June 2022 to present,as per PCA.



p16 of PCA, LE applied for two warrants on 23 DEc from AT&T for BK's number/account. 1x for 24 hours surrounding the murder and 1x for historical data from June 2022 to present.

MOO
 
gliving said:
That's a good point. What I don't understand is how BK could be a threat to anyone when he's in jail? I think it's something else. Maybe to do with the "intimate facts" and "invasion of personal privacy"? Or maybe where he got the murder weapon? <moo>
Click to expand...
The reason for sealing some of these warrants includes the phrase endanger the safety of, not just lives. It's one of those 'and/or clauses'. I can see how, in general, if private info is revealed, be that Confidential sources or the account/telephone numbers of individuals being looked into further, that it could be construed their 'safety' might be compromised via sleuthers or vigilante types (for e.g). I guess what I'm trying to express is that sometimes I think people forget that the cluase includes the word safety, it is not necessarily as dramatic as lives being in danger although IMO that is also possible. MOO
 
schooling said:
The PCA explicitly lists 2 separate warrants served to AT&T. Unless I'm missing something.

The first is a request for phone numbers that connected to specific towers in the area. [Page 11]

When that information was returned, they found BKs number amongst it. There's likely other people's numbers [that have been cleared] in the returned information.

The second is a request for historical phone records and cell tower data on 12/23. In the PCA they explicitly cite and tie this to BKs number [Page 12].



No other numbers are mentioned. Is it possible there were other numbers of interest? Sure. Maybe.

I think the likelihood that LE dug into other phone numbers [all likely cleared] to demonstrate their due diligence and not rushing to judgement is why we have seal and redact.

MOO, of course
Click to expand...
BBM: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823 Order to Seal and Redact - ATT.pdf
YES, this is the so called geo fence warrant for AT&T towers, 3- 5am Nov 13th. But IMO, BK's phone number was not amongst the Return of Inventory.

As per PCA, LE mentione (p16) that BK's phone number did not come up on the various (and there were a few 3-5am warrants issued for cell towers not just AT&T -see warrants on IDaho Court Cases of Interest page) geo fence warrants for various Phone company towers granted in the days following the murders. It is explained and elaborated on why BK likely switched his phone off between c 2.47am and 4.48am.

PCA page 16 and other pages where this is talked about.

Yes, the second AT&T warrant for 23rd December is almost 100% likely, IMOO, to refer to the warrant granted on 23rd December for BK's phone records for the 24 hours surrounding the murders as per PCA (see PCA above).

MOO
 
schooling said:
The PCA explicitly lists 2 separate warrants served to AT&T. Unless I'm missing something.


[snipped for focus}


No other numbers are mentioned. Is it possible there were other numbers of interest? Sure. Maybe.

I think the likelihood that LE dug into other phone numbers [all likely cleared] to demonstrate their due diligence and not rushing to judgement is why we have seal and redact.

MOO, of course
Click to expand...
BBM: There's a third warrant for AT&T that is sealed. I guess/speculate that this is the second warrant LE was granted on 23 December for BK's acc with AT&T for historical Ping data (per PCA) and that is completely sealed still for this reason. MOO and guess.

Sealed Warrant for AT&T

I agree that LE would have likely looked at the Return of the partially sealed AT&T geo fence warrant of 16 Nov,and seen other numbers that were probably followed up in various ways. That is highly likely why the warrant (and other phone Tower geo fence warrants) remains sealed. IMO that info will never be publicly revealed for obvious privacy reasons. MOO
 
jepop said:
BBM: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823 Order to Seal and Redact - ATT.pdf
YES, this is the so called geo fence warrant for AT&T towers, 3- 5am Nov 13th. But IMO, BK's phone number was not amongst the Return of Inventory.

As per PCA, LE mentione (p16) that BK's phone number did not come up on the various (and there were a few 3-5am warrants issued for cell towers not just AT&T -see warrants on IDaho Court Cases of Interest page) geo fence warrants for various Phone company towers granted in the days following the murders. It is explained and elaborated on why BK likely switched his phone off between c 2.47am and 4.48am.

PCA page 16 and other pages where this is talked about.

Yes, the second AT&T warrant for 23rd December is almost 100% likely, IMOO, to refer to the warrant granted on 23rd December for BK's phone records for the 24 hours surrounding the murders as per PCA (see PCA above).

MOO
Click to expand...
Thanks for the correction.

I didn’t realize the window was that tight (ending at 5am) and figured that BK connecting to Moscow towers around 9am on 11/13 and then again on 11/14 (where’s he’s just east enough to do so without ever entering Moscow) came out of that same warrant. But I see now that it was likely a follow up.

It makes sense that Moscow police tightened up that window so they wouldn’t be inundated with noise.
 
Nichevo said:
I think the disconnect comes from the discussion of genetic genealogy. I’m in the minority, but IMO it wasn’t used, and here’s why:

There are 2 million people in the databases available to law enforcement. That is 0.006 or 0.6% of the US population, about 6 in every 1,000 people. The overwhelming majority of people in those databases are of Northern European ancestry and BCK is more than 1/2 Italian. These points are made by CeCe Moore in this article:

www.foxnews.com

Bryan Kohberger submitted his DNA to genetic testing company: report

Bryan Kohberger, who is charged with murdering four University of Idaho students, wasn't identified from a direct hit in a DNA database, an expert told Fox News Digital.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

I also mentioned earlier about the sample of DNA representing BCK’s father being flown back to Idaho on the same airplane that would later transport BCK. That occurred the day before his arrest. It all came together for me after this post from @finkleiseinhorn on the day the PCA was released. That was a Pilatus PC-12 belonging to the Pennsylvania State Police, N879ST.

View attachment 411327
View attachment 411329

Also, there is this article in Forensic’s Magazine:
www.forensicmag.com

DNA, Genealogical Testing Played Key Role in Kohberger Arrest

Genetic genealogy in the traditional sense—which involves the searching of publicly available databases and the construction of a family tree—was not used, although parentage testing did play a vital role.
www.forensicmag.com
Click to expand...
I'm with you in thinking that "genetic genealogy" was not used. I think the only investigative method that was used on the sheath button was the comparison of the single source "suspect" sample with the dna extracted from the PA trash collected on 27th December and matched via the paternal method/thingy to the "suspect" sample (ie as per PCA). I also think the trash (and accompanying dna that later turned out to be BK's dad;s) was likely flown out of PA as you describe. According to the PCA it was analysed and the test done on 28th December to show the extreme likelihood that it was BK's dna on the sheath button. I think/imagine LE/FBI tried in vain to collect an actual BK dna sample after Nov 29th and into DEcember whilst BK was still in WA and were unable to. For whatetver reasons I'm of the opinion they could not legally access BK's own trash in WA or surreptitously but legally get a sample via another way (e.g via his office). MOO
 
schooling said:
Thanks for the correction.

I didn’t realize the window was that tight (ending at 5am) and figured that BK connecting to Moscow towers around 9am on 11/13 and then again on 11/14 (where’s he’s just east enough to do so without ever entering Moscow) came out of that same warrant. But I see now that it was likely a follow up.

It makes sense that Moscow police tightened up that window so they wouldn’t be inundated with noise.
Click to expand...
BBM: That info re BK came from the 23rd December warrant for AT&T - BK phone data for the 24 hours surrounding the murders (per PCA). The 14th Nov data may have come from the AT&T historical records warrant (either totally sealed as per my speculations or not yet listed) if the time falls outside the 24 hours on either side of the murders. I can't remember off hand which of the two 23rd DEc AT&T warrants it came from (per PCA).

I'm not listing them atm but there are several geo fence warrants that are very specific and all granted in the immediate days after, very early on from 16th November. They are for specific phone company towers, have very specific co-ordinates (I'd guess the immediate neighbourhood of King, Queen, perhaps Taylor and some of Walenta) and from memory are all specific as to time- 3am -5am November 13th. I think they include T-Mobile, Inter Cellular ?, AT&T and Verizon from memory only. MOO
 
U.N. Known said:
Yes, I keep wondering that too: whose life is in danger and from whom? The alleged killer is safely imprisoned, so he is not a threat to anyone. I suppose his life could be in danger, but I don't know how. As you mentioned in an earlier post, I feel like there is more going on than we know and IMO, it may not be directly related to this case.
Click to expand...
BBM: I try not to forget or inadvertently de-emphasise the second half of the clause, which is easy to do because it is less dramatic, so emphasising here:.
"...that might threaten or endanger the life or safety of individuals..."

Not sure re Exhibit B as referred to in the newly released discovery documents, but in general re some of the warrants where listed, I feel that if a source (for e.g a bank manager,a close friend of a victim) or perhaps the name or number of an individual under investigation is revealed or the statements that have been made to support a warrant are revealed, this could possibly impact on the safety (both mental/emotional and physical) of those individuals via press hounding and tracking down/inteference by vigilantes or people who do not respect boundaries. Certainly, privacy should be respected for these reasons and many others. MOO

EBM: grammar and emphasis
 
Sister Golden Hair said:
I'm replying to this to add that I felt like there was a CI based on the redacted and sealed warrants and affidavits, and I stated in DM here that the CI was given immunity for testimony. Based on everything else, I also believe that the CI is the source for the DD warrants back to that period of time - this is just me putting the pieces together in logical order, not total speculation. I also believe that a lot more is about to make sense. This is jmo imo ime but I suspect this is about to get a lot more interesting.
Click to expand...
DD warrants?
 
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