4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

[MeadowMuffin]

If DK offered to plead guilty in exchange for removal of death penalty, I can't imagine the State wouldn't accept that.

I agree. Especially if he tells the court the details of the crime.

 

[Bogbacal2]

Or vaguely reassuring, if one is not a criminal. As an older person, I'm glad my family has an easy way of figuring out what happened to me (and I'm happy that we can also figure out where the grandkids are).

IMO. Not scary to me.

Agreed! I’m “a little older” as well and very boring so my timeline would be very sparse. I will have to see it as a good thing in regards to safety as opposed to being scary!

 

[jepop]

Just looking at the probable cause wording for the 19 or 20 Tinder Account Warrants. It is a little different from many of the warrants I have read that seek info pertaining to the victims' and the redacteds (for e.g the financial warrants). The wording for Probable cause in those warrants is basically this:

"....property consists of information related to the crime of homicide..."

In the below Tinder warrants the wording is:
"...information related to the investigation of the homicides...".

ie.There is probable cause to believe that the 20 accounts have information related to the investigation of the homicides. MOO

Thinking aloud, this wording does kinda make sense to me if these warrants were obtained because the 20 accounts were identified, at the time, as significant to an angle of LE investigation/procedure/technique and the accounts were singled out via KG's and MM's Tinder Warrants (KG's in Nov 2022 and MMs returned 6 Dec?). I think it's possible at least that investigators were looking at other possibilities besides BK with these particular warrants. And if that is the case, the lead has likely since been exhausted. The returns from KG's and MM's Tinder Warrants could have been what LE investigated in order to get PC for these warrants. MOO

1)Tinder warrant obtained 6 Dec 2022, scope is Nov 3 - DEc 6th 2022

"...there is probable cause to believe
that the property referred to and sought in or upon said premises consists of information related to the investigation ofthe Novembe l3, 2022 homicides that occurred at 1122 KingRoad, in Moscow, Idaho to include:

All subscriber information between November 3, 2022, to present,
including but not limited to biogaphical data, geographical location, user
name, phone number associated, electronic mail (email) address, profile
information, primary picture, other private images, pictures, or videos,
credit card information, and billing and information for the following UID
accounts:,,,
[19 or 20 dots follow]..."

2)Tinder warrant obtained 22 December 2022.

"...there is probable cause to believe
that the property referred to and sought in or upon said premises consists of informationrelated to the investigation of the November13, 2022 homicides that occurred at 1122 KingRoad, in Moscow, Idaho to include:

All subscriber information between March 1, 2021, through March 31,
2021, including but not limited to biographical data, geographical location,
user name, phone number associated, electronic mail (email) address,
profile infomiation, primary picture, other private images, pictures, or
videos, credit card information, and billing and information for the
following UID accounts:,,,
[19 or 20 dots follow]..."

EBM: Corrected Yinder to Tinder
ETA: Sorry about font size, something happens when I cut and paste from Idaho Court page and I seem to have the choice of this size or a ginormous 18 point size.
ETA: Whoops I forgot the links

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Match%20Group%20LLC%202.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Match%20Group%20LLC%204.pdf

 

[formerlyme]

I agree. Especially if he tells the court the details of the crime.

I agree, but don't see him eager to do that, he seems to me that he thinks he is still ahead of the game.

 

[pseudo_hum]

I agree, but don't see him eager to do that, he seems to me that he thinks he is still ahead of the game.

Agreed. Based upon the reports of his unsatiable appetite for news of the homicides, IMO, he would relish the idea of hearing all the accounts that would come in a trial.

 

[Montecore1]

You are correct, trials are risky. Not only is it always possible the defendant will be found not guilty, but the victims are not treated with kid gloves in the courtroom-- they can't be. But it's still the case that many, if not most, families want to see the defendant in court. They don't realize a trial, if held, won't really be about their loved one. (When a trial is about to start you often hear families say things like "the trial should be about X [the loved one] not about Y [the defendant]. But it can't work that way.)

Even though all that's true, families still often want trials. And I expect that's especially true some of these these families.
JMO

As an outside/impartial observer, I've always disliked plea agreements that allow the guilty to have reduced, and often ridiculously short sentences for horrid crimes. In this case, as you say, the difference is DP or Life in prison. It's likely that the victims' family and friends have different views on which they'd prefer anyway.

A prosecutor will try a Death Penalty much differently than a Life Sentence case. With a LS case they just need to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, however with a DP case they need to "show" that the murder was so heinous, so savage with horrendous brutality that the guilty party deserves to be put to death for the crime instead of just spending the rest of their life in prison.

A Death Penality case will certainly display every gruesome crime scene pic and go into excruciating detail of each victims wounds and the extent of how they suffered and died, which wouldn't be necessary to display for the jury (and the gallery) to achieve a guilty verdict with a preponderance of evidence linking the person on trial to the crime

As you can only imagine what this would be like for the families especially considering these were just innocent kids that were killed. If the State feels they have an ironclad case this may be a deciding factor for them to only pursue a life sentence. It may be something that would even be discussed with the victims families.

As we know a DP decision is a second vote from the jury after a guilty verdict. The trial could put the families through everything and more that I wrote above and it could still be only a Life Sentence.

Something else that may play into the States decision to put the families through a DP trial or not is the unlikelihood that the DP would ever be carried out in Idaho at all. The last execution there was in 2012 and there are only 8 (IINM) on Death Row now. IMO that doesn't seem like Idaho pursues the DP often. With the lack of the needed ingredients for a lethal injections I am highly skeptical that that will indeed use a firing squad in the future for executions but who knows. MOO

 

[vls12345]

Sources: Police investigating Kohberger in other homicides

Bryan Kohberger is accused of killing college students Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

If DK offered to plead guilty in exchange for removal of death penalty, I can't imagine the State wouldn't accept that.

I just don't see that happening, but anything is possible. Plus I don't think DK would agree to plea, he seems like he'd be willing to roll the dice with the jury, he is the smartest man in the room, ahem cell now, after all. JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

IMO, that likely describes more than half the student population in these two college towns.

But those students don't drive White Elantras seen on surveillance right before (more than once) the murders and then speeding away right after.

MOO

 

[Bogbacal2]

Couple of (random) things I want to throw out here:

*Wondering what happened on this date? August 21, 2022
In exhibit A, statement of Sgt. Dustin Blaker
”The records for the 8458 phone show the 8458 phone utilizing cellular resources that provide coverage to the area of 1122 King Rd on at least 12 occasions prior to November 13, 2022. All of these occasions, except for one, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days. One of these occasions, on August 21, 2022, the 8458 phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Rd. residence from approximately 10:34pm-11:35 pm.
At approximately 11:37pm, BK was stopped by Latah County Sheriffs Deputy, Cpl Duke.”

Just something I noticed:
it’s been said that BK parked behind the victims house (interviews, not in documents that I have found so far). IMO, BK parked his car somewhere on Queens Rd near the intersection of King and Queen because
”BK unsuccessfully attempts to park or turn around in the road. Approx 4:04am..The vehicle continued to the intersection of QueenRd and King Rd where it can be seen completing a three-point turn and then driving eastbound again down Queen Rd. Vehicle 1 is next seen departing the King Rd residence at approximately 4:20am at a high rate of speed.”

Nothing earth shattering, just things I came across!

 

[al66pine]

POST OF THE DAY*

"he is the smartest man in the room, ahem cell now"

Yes, in the cell.

Thank you, @girlhasnoname for this description.
________________________________________________
*

I just don't see that happening, but anything is possible. Plus I don't think DK would agree to plea, he seems like he'd be willing to roll the dice with the jury, he is the smartest man in the room, ahem cell now, after all. JMO

 

[Deleted member 718]

How foggy? Would a neighbor even be able to see that front door from their own house?

If it was that foggy, I'd have to wonder about clarity of the white Elantra video.

 

[al66pine]

Burden of Proof. BARD or PreponEvd?

A prosecutor will try a Death Penalty much differently than a Life Sentence case. With a LS case they just need to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt,...
A Death Penality case will certainly display every gruesome crime scene pic and go into excruciating detail of each victims wounds and the extent of how they suffered and died, which wouldn't be necessary to display for the jury (and the gallery) to achieve a guilty verdict with a preponderance of evidence linking the person on trial to the crime....

snipped for focus @Montecore1
In crim cases the state's burden of proof is guilt BARD, a higher B/P than preponderance of the evidence used in some/most civil cases. eta: added "most"

Above phrase "guilt verdict with a preponderance of evidence" linking def't to crime seems incongruous.

Imo. Or I may be misunderstanding something in post. Will reread after more coffee.

 

[jepop]

Couple of (random) things I want to throw out here:

*Wondering what happened on this date? August 21, 2022
In exhibit A, statement of Sgt. Dustin Blaker
”The records for the 8458 phone show the 8458 phone utilizing cellular resources that provide coverage to the area of 1122 King Rd on at least 12 occasions prior to November 13, 2022. All of these occasions, except for one, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days. One of these occasions, on August 21, 2022, the 8458 phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Rd. residence from approximately 10:34pm-11:35 pm.
At approximately 11:37pm, BK was stopped by Latah County Sheriffs Deputy, Cpl Duke.”

RSBM

Nothing earth shattering, just things I came across!

Re the bolded, I believe that was when BK was pulled over just outside the King Road Cell tower range on a traffic stop on AUG 21. In another part of the PCA that incident is explained in more detail. It was during this Aug 21 Traffic stop where BK supplied his phone number to LE. Investigators later (on approx Nov 29th) pulled up all this info after identifying BK's elantra. Eventually, on DEc 23rd, warrants were obtained from AT&T for the historical ping location data for that number which is when LE would have realised that just before BK was pulled over that night on Aug 21, he had been pinging of towers also used by the Kings Road residence .MOO. Sorry that I can't remember the page no in the PCA offhand.

 

[PrairieWind]

I just don't see that happening, but anything is possible. Plus I don't think DK would agree to plea, he seems like he'd be willing to roll the dice with the jury, he is the smartest man in the room, ahem cell now, after all. JMO

Part of the reason I say that is that I don't think this prosecutor is very pro death penalty. And he can save his office a LOT of money. But I do agree with you that I'm not sure BK (I keep typing DK for some reason) would agree to it. At least not yet.

 

[Helechawagirl]

For me to know (more clearly) if it is 19/20 Tinder accounts or actually 39/40 accounts total, I need to check the Order to Seal Documents to see how it is written. I have all of them in my Download File so I will take a look.

The information seems more solid to me because we have more than just an anonymous investigator talking to People Magazine. People Magazine saw Kohberger's account themselves and noted Kohberger followed the 3 female victims:

"Kohberger's now-deleted Instagram account — which was viewed by PEOPLE before it was removed — followed the accounts of Mogen, Gonclaves and Kernodle, but there was no public interaction."

Your right, if the article is correct then it would be significant.

Question:

How can the prosecution claim that Kohberger was stalking the victims if they can't prove Kohberger even
knew who the victims were?

To stalk someone you have to know who they are.

The thing is, they don't have any proof that Kohberger was on King road those dozens of times that his phone pinged from the Moscow area. All they have is that his phone pinged from the same cell tower that services the residents who live on King road.

I would have to research it but I can bet dollars to doughnuts that the range of the King Rd cell tower expands to quite a large range out from King Rd. Maybe even out of town.

The defense can say there is no proof Kohberger was stalking the victims, he was just out doing XYZ in the area, or he wasn't even in that area because his phone pinged erroneously on that tower or was transferred over to that tower, not unheard of.

Point is....

It would bolster the prosecution's case (phone evidence shows stalking) if they can prove that Kohberger knew who the victims were - if they can prove that he followed 3 ladies on Instagram who happen to be the same 3 ladies he killed that night. The 2 women he didn't kill in that house might be alive because he did not know who they were, did not follow them on Instagram.

And if they can prove that just a couple of weeks before the murders he tried to communicate with one of them but was ignored by her, then that shows some level of escalation and bolsters the stalking evidence.

Note all the SM accounts in evidence. They are looking for BK's connection to the victims. Proof he knew them.

2 Cents

Don’t forget that there were multiple fake accounts made right after the arrest. I believe People was fooled by this as I was. JMO

 

[Gemmie]

To stalk someone you have to know who they are.

SBMFF

I don't know that I agree that you have to know someone in order to stalk them. I had seen a guy on a bike once (long ago, so pre-internet, FB, etc.) downtown (smallish city around 76K population) and he smiled at me. I went about my business and thought nothing of it. A few days later I walked out my door to go to my car and there he was, sitting on his bike for who knows how long, facing my house, and smiled at me when he saw me. I don't know who he was but that felt like stalking to me and it creeped me out and made me VERY uncomfortable. My house was on a quiet street that was out of the way so he was there, facing my house for a reason, and I feel it was because he somehow figured out where I lived by following my car. Or he had ridden up and down several streets, looking for my car which was visible down a long driveway. I can't think of any other way.

So it's my opinion that the early stages of stalking someone can be done without knowing them. You follow someone around who catches your eye to figure out who they are, where they live, work, shop, hang out, etc., and in this day and age you can then continuing your stalking online. There just wasn't the online factor 40+ yrs ago.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Ah, thanks. Other than our own speculation here, I hadn't seen any reports on this, or else I'd already forgotten about it. Sigh.

Thanks for posting just the same, @Auntie Cipation

I remember seeing in MSM headlines back then (2 or so months ago) that PA LE was investigating any possible connections between BK and unsolved crimes there, with minimal follow up a few weeks or month or so later along the lines of "nothing found yet", but not much discussion of it by "experts" on a TV segment, IMO.

I actually enjoyed watching this because there were a few aspects of Gergagos' and Coffindaffer's opinions on this case on Cuomo's show I hadn't heard or considered before in the context of "what we know now" versus "what we knew then".

IMO, the public would have no idea if those investigations in PA have indeed turned anything up that may be germane to the case against BK for allegedly murdering Kaylee, Maddie, Xana, and Ethan.

Even if they found something "simple" like nighttime prowling or stalking of young women on his part any of the years he lived in PA related or not to an actual crime, it would show a pattern of behavior, IMO, and IMHO, along the lines of MO as Coffindaffer mentioned:

"In criminal law, modus operandi refers to a method of operation or pattern of criminal behavior so distinctive that separate crimes or wrongful conduct are recognized as the work of the same person. Modus operandi is used as a basis for admitting evidence of other crimes and is permitted by Rule 404(b)(2) of the Federal Rules of Evidence. For example, in a case involving the armed robbery of a bank, evidence that the alleged robber was convicted of an armed robbery one year prior would be admissible to prove identity through modus operandi where in both the prior case and the current case the perpetrator wore a purple cowboy hat, possessed a gold gun with mother of pearl handles, was heard humming the tune to “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star,” and put the money in a black Gucci bag. The evidence is so specific that it uniquely identifies defendant as the perpetrator in the case at hand."

modus operandi​

 

[paigelemonade]

Does anyone know why/how Maddie had a tinder account when she had a long term (one year+) boyfriend at the time of the murder? I’m just curious

 

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