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4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81
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As per the affidavit his phone was located there …
the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that would provide coverage to the King Road Residence between 9: 12 a,m. and 9:21 am.
There is footage of a white sedan near King Road that day… 5hours after the murders making the after 9am time correlate with the phone…
Police allege that Kohberger stalked the King Road home at least a dozen times before the attack and returned once more about five hours after the murders — which was still hours before the initial 911 call.
They say they traced his car to and from the crime scene on the morning of the slayings and used phone pings to follow his suspected path.
Idaho murders: King Road home where Bryan Kohberger allegedly stabbed 4 boarded up, will be demolished
The King Road home near the University of Idaho campus where four students were killed in November has been boarded up and fenced in as the suspect remains jailed.
Recently reviewed video in the haunting University of Idaho murder case may support investigators' theory that the murder suspect Bryan Kohberger returned to the scene of the killing in his white Hyundai Elantra in the hours after the massacre.
Is THIS Bryan Kohberger returning to the scene of the Idaho murders?
New video in the University of Idaho murder case may support investigators' theory that the suspect returned to the scene of the killing hours after the massacre.
RBBM: Adding to your path of speculation, maybe he didn't 'abort mission' if having an oops moment with phone in south Pullman after leaving home because he needed to follow through that night because it was close to the last chance he'd get before Thanks Giving/exams (TA duties) or for some other reason? Possibly last chance according to his own time-table- he needs to be at WSU weekdays and appear 'normal' after crimes? I can't remember the line of reasoning now, but recall a poster putting forward a possible 'last chance' scenario that certainly made sense. Could've been @Cool Cats?
MOO and only speculation
Reciprocal discovery--where the defense has to make disclosures as well--is fairly recent here in the States. "Recent" as in three or four decades; defense disclosures are not mentioned in our Constitution. (There is probably some exception, some state that has required defense disclosures since 1885, but I don't know the history.)
The goal is to eliminate "trial by surprise". Some may recall Johnny Cochran and other Simpson attorneys continually interrupting Marcia Clark during her closing statements at the Simpson criminal trial.
IIRC, required disclosure by the defense was a new thing in the early 1990s, and Simpson's lawyers were protesting by interrupting the prosecutor continuously.
I thought it was rude, but, apparently, it worked! I wouldn't expect a similar stunt nowadays. CA lawyers are used to reciprocal discovery by now.
The aim of all of the above is to avoid "trial-by-ambush". Despite the popularity of our TV show, PERRY MASON (the original), nobody really thinks a verdict should be determined by tricks.
Maybe. But his registration reportedly expired in November of last year. He had no choice but to renew it in the state where he resided at that date.
Yes, he could have chosen the murder date accordingly, but now we're sounding like a Dashiell Hammett or Agatha Christie short story.
Wow, thank you for this @I'm Nobody. Top notch timeline, very useful. When it comes to timelines (and no doubt much else) you're really somebody! MOOAgree @North_Idaho_Nony. I too appreciate all the voices here on WS helping.
To help me make sense of clues I make timelines. Here's one I used to keep track of BK's days after the murders.
BK likely thought he was home-free having meticulously planned so well, at least for a while. I don't believe in coincidence so this helped me see what if any things were closely connected.
"DAY" is how many days after the murder.
BK's DAYS OF FANTASY DENIAL TIMELINE
DAY 0: (Sunday, November 13) MURDERS 4:04--4:20 a.m.
9:12--9:21 BK returns to scene for 9 minutes
11:58-- 911 call "unconscious person"
DAY 2: (Nov 15) Mayor says "crime of passion" which BK parrots to neighbor
DAY 3: (Nov 16) LE ask public for camera footage; FBI announce joining case
DAY 4: (Nov 17) BK's "nice & charming" at routine DR appt
DAY 5: (Nov 18) BK's Elantra registered with WA license plates
DAY 6: (Nov 19) BK's students report grading lighter seemed different (no actual dates but after the murders)
DAY 8: (Nov 21) BK's birthday 11/21/94 (28th b-day)
DAY 11 (Nov 24) THANKSGIVING (BK called neighbor to wish Happy T-Day)
DAY 12Nov 25) BOLO to LE re:white Hyundai Elantra (12 days b4 public knew)
(11/25 REALITY HITS AT BOLO -- 34 days till BK is arrested)
DAY 16: (Nov 29) BK does NOT know--WSU officer locates his car
DAY 17: (Nov 30) BK's Nov 30 PA License plate expired
DAY 22: (Dec 5) BK received the Washington license plate CFB-8708
DAY 24: (Dec 7) LE ask public’s help id'ing owner 2011-13 white Hyundai Elantra
DAY 24: (Dec 7) Mtg w profs cite BK sexist attitude toward women & his 'behavioral issues' concerning
BK's Dad arrives in one week to drive back to PA.
DAY 26: (Dec 9) 2nd altercation w Snyder, BK told he 'had made no progress regarding professionalism'
DAY 30: (Dec 12 or 13) Dad flies to Seattle, to Spokane to Pullman meets son for holiday drive home to PA
DAY 30: (Dec 13) Loma Colorado lic plate reader father/son drive to PA
DAY 32: (Dec 15) Cross country drive. IN traffic stops 10:41 am & 10:50 am
DAY 33: (Dec 16) PA car serviced. BK's Dad told mechanic son would be driving back to WA.
DAY 36: (Dec 19) BK was officially terminated from WSU TA position
DAY 47: (Dec 30) BK arrested at his parent's home in Pennsylvania
IMO BK had access to a police scanner at WSU or elsewhere to hear the BOLO on Nov 25, 12 days before the public knew. There are other significant events and dates before the murders but this helped me with events after Nov 13 to BK's arrest on Dec 30.
All MOO and thank you all for your contributions..
edit typo date
I wholeheartedly agree. And I think I'm a better citizen (and voter) because I have, off and on, read true crime books throughout my adult life.
As you say, I wouldn't FORCE anyone to read them. But I have learned more about our judicial system from such books than from working at law firms for 2.5 decades!
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There was a clearer photo taken by press of the white car that drove by the next day behind the investigators, IMO, I compared the side view of the rear lights and it was not an Elantra.As per the affidavit his phone was located there …
the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that would provide coverage to the King Road Residence between 9: 12 a,m. and 9:21 am.
There is footage of a white sedan near King Road that day… 5hours after the murders making the after 9am time correlate with the phone…
Police allege that Kohberger stalked the King Road home at least a dozen times before the attack and returned once more about five hours after the murders — which was still hours before the initial 911 call.
They say they traced his car to and from the crime scene on the morning of the slayings and used phone pings to follow his suspected path.
Idaho murders: King Road home where Bryan Kohberger allegedly stabbed 4 boarded up, will be demolished
The King Road home near the University of Idaho campus where four students were killed in November has been boarded up and fenced in as the suspect remains jailed.www.foxnews.com
Recently reviewed video in the haunting University of Idaho murder case may support investigators' theory that the murder suspect Bryan Kohberger returned to the scene of the killing in his white Hyundai Elantra in the hours after the massacre.
Is THIS Bryan Kohberger returning to the scene of the Idaho murders?
New video in the University of Idaho murder case may support investigators' theory that the suspect returned to the scene of the killing hours after the massacre.www.dailymail.co.uk
Wasn't captured on CCTV footage at the scene at c9.12am on Nov 13th, at least if he was we are not privy to the info (was not in PCA). My personal speculation is that he was just nearby and observing from a distance. For 10 mins, before returning to Pullman by 9.30ish (as per PCA). So IMOO BK not drive down Queen Road in broad daylight. MOO. However B K and his elantra were unambiguously captured via video survelilance later after 12pm in Clarkson at a grocery store (Albertsons). I've also noted in previous posts that as per PCA, after Nov 14th BK's phone never pinged off towers utilised by the King's Road residence again.
MOO
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Why would the Press have been there just after 9am ??? When the 911 call wasn’t made until 11:58am??
Several hours after the killings, at around 9:12 a.m., Mr. Kohberger’s phone was detected in Moscow, connecting to the cellular network near the scene of the murders and staying there for nine minutes, according to the police records.
10 Key Revelations in the Idaho Murder Case (Published 2023)
Court records unsealed this week provided vital and unsettling new details about the night that four University of Idaho students were killed.
Another poster seems to think the same about him returning that morning .. it is in the timeline ….
Post in thread '4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81'
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81
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Possibly planned - to the day - because this was done exactly one month before BK wouldn't be able to do it. Final examinations began on Monday, December 12, 2022 to Friday, December 16, 2022.
He would be extremely busy administering final exams as a TA and may have known he might not be back. So he could have given himself the deadline of the 2nd Saturday of November, the one month mark before he would have to stick close to campus, see his dad, then leave the State.
And it was imperative that he give himself at least a few weeks to hang around in the area after the homicides so he could listen first hand to conversations about the crime and to be up close to the investigation, being at "ground zero" so to speak.
Ok to have phone because he did not plan murder that night:
Could have been a stalking "mission" rather than a planned murder but changed his mind after seeing victims in bed or seeing the others awake
Could have been surprised by awake people and killed them so they wouldn't call 911
Awake person could have advanced towards him first and he reacted in a frenzy
Phone could have been turned off just for stalking and entering the home
Phone could have been turned off to avoid pinging the WI-FI
Mask, black clothes and knife can be used just for creeping
Mask and black clothes were only in case someone saw him creeping in the house
Knife was only suppose to scare someone so he could get away quickly if seen
Knife was to be used to open a door or window (happened in a murder I followed)
Knife was to be used as a tool and was never intended for murder, like to cut security camera wires (happened in a murder I followed)
This whole stalking with a knife was strictly a fantasy he was acting out and turned unexpectedly into a total murder frenzy through some trigger or confrontation or plan not working out, any number of things.
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Good thought and makes sense …. But if he was smart he could have introduced a contingency plan at that time… …. Like go to the Servo or 24hr shop, buy something, and return home …. (Also giving himself an alibi) And then later leave the house again, this time with his phone turned off ….. if as you say, it was his last chance ….
ALL PURE SPECULATION and MOO
And to think that's just the angle my attorney and I were planning. I guess it's back to Twinkies for me.....
Not to pick on you, Sister, but speaking of "Twinkies":
Anyone interested in the Dan White trial (where the so-called Twinkie Defense was first raised) should read Emily Mann's brilliant play, EXECUTION OF JUSTICE. (EOJ was later adapted by director/star Tim Daly and broadcast as a teleplay on either HBO or Showtime. It doesn't work as well as a film and I can't vouch that all the screenplay was drawn from real-life sources. Daly, however, is excellent as Dan White.)
In all or almost all of her work, Mann uses actual trial testimony and/or quotations from local media. EOJ is mostly drawn from the trial transcripts, so it gives us a clear understanding of the real life trial.
During voir dire the judge in the case excused every juror who even admitted to having a gay friend! He also refused to allow any testimony that suggested staunch Catholic Dan White was in any way influenced by Harvey Milk's sexual orientation and political activities on behalf of gay equality.
Although the trial may have given history the "twinkie defense", the latter was mostly an excuse to allow the jury to declare the killing manslaughter rather than murder.
The real defense was overt homophobia (even though one of the two victims, Mayor George Mosconi, was straight) and the exclusion of any juror who appeared to be politically progressive.
I'm not at all sure that any defendant has ever gotten a reduced sentence because he claimed to have eaten too much sugar.
I think you are right @Auntie Cipation. I recall previous discussion on this and you were involved then. There's nothing in PCA re camera capture of white elantra on Queen Street at 9.10 that morning. Whilst I suppose such a piece of info may have been excluded from PCA, realistically I doubt it. And it makes more sense to me that alleged killer would have checked things out on the street from a short distance (if that is why he was there which I lean towards being the case- MOO), from some nearby vantage point than drive down Queen Street in broad daylight but that is just MOO.
I think you may have mixed up MSM speculative reports with what is in the PCA (or in this case not in the PCA). I think this has already been cleared up but there are no known camera captures of BK's elantra being on Queen Street at 9.10am - 9.20am on November 13th. He was nearby though, as per his phone pings. MOOAs per the affidavit his phone was located there …
the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that would provide coverage to the King Road Residence between 9: 12 a,m. and 9:21 am.
There is footage of a white sedan near King Road that day… 5hours after the murders making the after 9am time correlate with the phone…
Police allege that Kohberger stalked the King Road home at least a dozen times before the attack and returned once more about five hours after the murders — which was still hours before the initial 911 call.
They say they traced his car to and from the crime scene on the morning of the slayings and used phone pings to follow his suspected path.
Idaho murders: King Road home where Bryan Kohberger allegedly stabbed 4 boarded up, will be demolished
The King Road home near the University of Idaho campus where four students were killed in November has been boarded up and fenced in as the suspect remains jailed.
Recently reviewed video in the haunting University of Idaho murder case may support investigators' theory that the murder suspect Bryan Kohberger returned to the scene of the killing in his white Hyundai Elantra in the hours after the massacre.
Is THIS Bryan Kohberger returning to the scene of the Idaho murders?
New video in the University of Idaho murder case may support investigators' theory that the suspect returned to the scene of the killing hours after the massacre.
BooBoos, But Would LE Peg Walter Mitty* or Mr. Martin** as a Suspect?
Imo, one possibility = BK did not think he would be on LE's radar for these homicides. Not for any reason. Not ever.
But perhaps thought, if somehow LE questioned him, it would only be as a potential witness, to give LE leads or clues.
________________________________
{eta: My speculation about BK's} IMAGINED convo w LE (abbreviated)?
{eta: NOT saying BK actually imagined a convo like this}
Detectives: "We're investigating the 4 homicides last week, and we got Ring vid of your car a few blocks from that house about 4 am. "
BK: "Yeah, I couldn't sleep, was driving around, thinking about ___ " [something Uni. related, so he could segue into his TA-ship, having bachelors & masters degree. Maybe let it slip his field is crim justice, so they could "talk shop."]
Detectives: "When you were driving around close to 1100 block of King that morning, did you see anything unusual?"
BK: "No". Maybe adds: "Except maybe another white Elantra like mine."
Detectives: "Would you mind if we had a look at your car?"
BK: "Here are the keys. Help yourself."
They walk around car, open driver door, trunk, spot no easily observable blood.
"Sorry to bother you and take up your valuable time, but we have to rule people out. Here's my card. Let us know if you think of anything else."
BK: "Will do."
Still within BK's earshot, detectives walk toward their car.
One: "When we didn't find convictions or even arrests, I knew he was not our perp."
Younger detective: "Nice guy, polite, clean cut, well-spoken. Grad student, on his way to bigger things. Maybe a full Uni professorship at ___ one day. I wonder why someone like that has not asked my sister for a date. 24 yrs old, college homecoming queen, French underwear model, and rocket scientist. She'd jump at the chance."
And later BK thinks about calling in a tip, so he & detectives can bond over IPA and crim justice issues.
____________________________________________
See, people, glitches like phone settings or unintentional knife sheath leave-behinds may be booboos, but even w vid of his car, LE would not zero in on him as a suspect in a quadruple stabbing homicide. He's a law-abiding citizen, no crim history, a perfect cover, w nothing to worry about. Like BTK Dennis Rader. Well, until arrest?
Not saying ^ was BK's line of thought. All sarc, all from my imagination on Running Wild setting, about his imagination.
===================================
Re both links, referring to them only because the central character (Walter Mitty or Mr. Martin) seems so unlikely to be a hero or a person intent on killing. No similarity re victims or victimology.
* Walter Mitty is a fictitious character of author James Thurber. "Mitty is a meek, mild man with a vivid fantasy life.... Even in his heroic daydreams, Mitty does not triumph, several fantasies being interrupted before the final one sees Mitty dying bravely in front of a firing squad...."
Walter Mitty - Wikipedia (Ignore 2013 Ben Stiller movie.)
** Closer the mark, this is the full text of the six page short story published in 1942 about fictitious Mr. Martin, an unlikely suspect of "attempted murder," from ^ same author James Thurber: "The Catbird Seat."
snipped for focus. @SLouTh
Imo, one possibility = BK did not think he would be on LE's radar for these homicides. Not for any reason. Not ever.
But perhaps thought, if somehow LE questioned him, it would only be as a potential witness, to give LE leads or clues.
________________________________
{eta: My speculation about BK's} IMAGINED convo w LE (abbreviated)?
{eta: NOT saying BK actually imagined a convo like this}
Detectives: "We're investigating the 4 homicides last week, and we got Ring vid of your car a few blocks from that house about 4 am. "
BK: "Yeah, I couldn't sleep, was driving around, thinking about ___ " [something Uni. related, so he could segue into his TA-ship, having bachelors & masters degree. Maybe let it slip his field is crim justice, so they could "talk shop."]
Detectives: "When you were driving around close to 1100 block of King that morning, did you see anything unusual?"
BK: "No". Maybe adds: "Except maybe another white Elantra like mine."
Detectives: "Would you mind if we had a look at your car?"
BK: "Here are the keys. Help yourself."
They walk around car, open driver door, trunk, spot no easily observable blood.
"Sorry to bother you and take up your valuable time, but we have to rule people out. Here's my card. Let us know if you think of anything else."
BK: "Will do."
Still within BK's earshot, detectives walk toward their car.
One: "When we didn't find convictions or even arrests, I knew he was not our perp."
Younger detective: "Nice guy, polite, clean cut, well-spoken. Grad student, on his way to bigger things. Maybe a full Uni professorship at ___ one day. I wonder why someone like that has not asked my sister for a date. 24 yrs old, college homecoming queen, French underwear model, and rocket scientist. She'd jump at the chance."
And later BK thinks about calling in a tip, so he & detectives can bond over IPA and crim justice issues.
____________________________________________
See, people, glitches like phone settings or unintentional knife sheath leave-behinds may be booboos, but even w vid of his car, LE would not zero in on him as a suspect in a quadruple stabbing homicide. He's a law-abiding citizen, no crim history, a perfect cover, w nothing to worry about. Like BTK Dennis Rader. Well, until arrest?
Not saying ^ was BK's line of thought. All sarc, all from my imagination on Running Wild setting, about his imagination.
===================================
Re both links, referring to them only because the central character (Walter Mitty or Mr. Martin) seems so unlikely to be a hero or a person intent on killing. No similarity re victims or victimology.
* Walter Mitty is a fictitious character of author James Thurber. "Mitty is a meek, mild man with a vivid fantasy life.... Even in his heroic daydreams, Mitty does not triumph, several fantasies being interrupted before the final one sees Mitty dying bravely in front of a firing squad...."
Walter Mitty - Wikipedia (Ignore 2013 Ben Stiller movie.)
** Closer the mark, this is the full text of the six page short story published in 1942 about fictitious Mr. Martin, an unlikely suspect of "attempted murder," from ^ same author James Thurber: "The Catbird Seat."
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So much still to be revealed … I’d love to hear answers to:
Why was did he say he was there on previous occassions?
Where is the knife he bought on Amazon?
What has he actually said when questioned?
Why did Kaylee and Maddie call jack do much ?
What was the discovering regarding the youths running in the field
Is it known if Xana ate the door dash?
What is the more detailed testimony of Dylan and Bethany ?
Why did Bryan clear his trash into baggies?
Why was did he say he was there on previous occassions?
Where is the knife he bought on Amazon?
What has he actually said when questioned?
Why did Kaylee and Maddie call jack do much ?
What was the discovering regarding the youths running in the field
Is it known if Xana ate the door dash?
What is the more detailed testimony of Dylan and Bethany ?
Why did Bryan clear his trash into baggies?
They weren't there at 9am Nov 13th. That is why this particular piece of speculation was put to bed threads back IMO. IIRC, after the murders were discovered, at some point there were reporters. Then some sleuths noticed a white car go by in the background of a camera shot and some analysis went on about whether it was an elantra (this is all prior to BK's arrest so he is unknown to the speculators). After the arrest and the PCA, it became clear because of the time stamp and day of the report when this white car passed in the background of the camera's range, that it could not have been the arrested and alleged killer. MOO.
I'd guess this discussion is on a thread somewhere and maybe the search function might help find it. Apologies for being unable to link directly back to it myself, but if we can reasonably assume that 1122 was not teeming with reporters at 9.10am on Nov 13th (and I do assume this), then the PCA tells us everything else we need to know; that it wasn't BK's car in the background of the reporter's shot. BK was elsewhere on the afternoon of Nov 13th and there were no reporters at1122 between 9.10 and 9.20 am Nov 13th. MOO
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RSBM
Yes great thought @al66pine
I guess BK could have definitely have been that arrogant, and think like that … especially with his “studies in criminology” …. even perhaps thinking that LE may come to him for “advice“ on the killer…
(Of course these thoughts would have been delusions of grandeur… )
All IMO
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He didn't have to wait for it to expire---if he wanted in-state tuition savings earlier he could register his car as soon as he moved there. No need to wait.
So why did he wait? Maybe there was a plan in place to wait until after the crime?
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