4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

[jepop]

You're right. It's been awhile since I looked at the maps or PCA. I think he turned his phone on in an area that is picked up on a tower near Blaine. Iirc, there was a road that cut east/west across there. The real key to this theory really is where he would say he was, and what he was doing, during that time, because there's not much in that general vicinity.

If you're right in speculating that LE managed to collect camera footage from towns east of Moscow on the main drag, then at that time of the morning, those towns would very likely be ruled out, so he couldn't say he was there or went through them. MOO

 

[TL4S]

It's an interesting and IMO feasible theory that could explain alleged killer's movements. And I agree with you in speculating that he was capable of this level of planning and fore-thought. And prepping time before (and de-prepping after- there is 15 mins unaccounted for between 4.20am and 4.48am when he reconnects with the network. So stops somewhere south or east of Moscow) still fits in with this. MOO

The only thing that appears incongruent is in the sentence I bolded above. He actually reconnects with the network when approx 15 minutes south of Moscow, presumably from what can be gathered from PCA, on Highway 95 near Blaine. He continues south to near Genesee before turning west towards Union town. It's only here that he begins heading North on Highway 195 back towards Pullman. But might still stand up if he was only calculating on camera captures to establish/suggest alibi. Certainly, he is not captured on camera again until 1300 Johnson Road Pullman. But I guess even with turning phone on near Blaine he may still have thought that was far enough south of Moscow to demonstrate a feasible "I was somewhere else" alibi if it ever came to LE checking both cameras and his phone's location pings. Or perhaps he never anticipated it getting as far as LE getting a warrant for his phone ping data. Though IDK again now...where was he supposed to be south of Moscow until 4.50am (almost two hours) so that he would then be driving south near Blaine on Highway 95? After being captured by cameras heading east out of Moscow at about 3 am? I've given up my mapping these days! ... MOO

Here's something interesting to me about LE collecting the surveillance footage in Troy and Kendrick. According to this article, on Nov. 30, they asked for footage from the Food City store in Kendrick.

Idaho murders: Investigators traveled at least 24 miles to collect surveillance video related to the killings

According to this article, Moscow LE asked regional LE to look for the white Elantra on Nov. 25, then three nights later is when the WSU officer ran a query for white Elantras on campus, which came back with the one from PA, and 30 min later the campus officer located BK's car.

The white sedan: How police tracked down Idaho killings suspect Bryan Kohberger

So LE didn't ask for surveillance in Kendrick until 2 days AFTER they knew who owned the suspected car. IDK why, but that's interesting to me...

 

[al66pine]

"Idaho Tort Claims Act" Procedures.

Bbm
Not saying I believe in it, only that I understand why it was filed, it makes sense. Besides universities are known to cover up crimes, etc.
I am going to support the families 100%.
moo

@arielilane Thanks for responding.
Yes, uni's have covered up crimes.
I have no doubt that any uni. could (try to) cover up employee conduct & circumstances which would give rise to CIVIL liability. That is what the Tort Claim Notices relate to --- potential civil suits.

I understand why these notices were presented.

My prior issue was phrasing the atty's ({eta: in News Nation vid clip w Ashleigh, linked in earlier posts} used in referring to the notices, but that's another post altogether. Maybe another time.

 

[jepop]

Here's something interesting to me about LE collecting the surveillance footage in Troy and Kendrick. According to this article, on Nov. 30, they asked for footage from the Food City store in Kendrick.

Idaho murders: Investigators traveled at least 24 miles to collect surveillance video related to the killings

According to this article, Moscow LE asked regional LE to look for the white Elantra on Nov. 25, then three nights later is when the WSU officer ran a query for white Elantras on campus, which came back with the one from PA, and 30 min later the campus officer located BK's car.

The white sedan: How police tracked down Idaho killings suspect Bryan Kohberger

So LE didn't ask for surveillance in Kendrick until 2 days AFTER they knew who owned the suspected car. IDK why, but that's interesting to me...

So what may/could have happened there (just speculation), is that LE then (after Nov 29) got the footage that shows the 2014-2015 elantra leaving pullman at 2.50am (remembering phone data doesn't come into it until 23rd December) and possibly the Johnson road and N-E Stadium footage that shows the 2014-2015 elantra heading north in Pullman towards BK's address between 5.25 and 5.27am. That takes two days? Perhaps, as you've speculated, they then wanted to see if they could find this specific elantra somewhere else besides Moscow (for elimination) so they go get the footage from Kendrick for the relevant times ie after 3am- which fails to eliminate the 2014-2015 elantra. ie it wasn't in Kendrick or did not enter that towns off the main drag at any rate.MOO speculating.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

For those members who may have forgotten, discussion about the skinned dog is off limits:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 10

I know we can’t speculate but the dynamic of K and her ex’s relationship would be interesting to know in more detail. Who broke it off initially, why, was there hesitation from one of them about getting back together? She seemed to be starting a new life so was anyone feeling left behind? Was...

www.websleuths.com

 

[TL4S]

If you're right in speculating that LE managed to collect camera footage from towns east of Moscow on the main drag, then at that time of the morning, those towns would very likely be ruled out, so he couldn't say he was there or went through them. MOO

That's exactly right, and to me, it doesn't make sense why they would even look so far in that direction considering the timeline. It's a 34 min drive from Moscow to Kendrick, one way. That's why I think the car was seen (maybe at Safeway) driving east out on Hwy 8. Except instead of going through Troy and turning south to Kendrick, the white car actually turned south on a rural road (no cameras) maybe somewhere between Moscow and Cornwall, and got onto Styner from the south, if that makes sense. And like you said, no footage of the white Elantra in Troy and Kendrick (the most likely route from east Moscow to where he ended up turning his phone back on) could possibly rule out that he'd been through there. JMO. I know it's a crazy idea, but there had to be a reason why LE wanted footage from those areas.

 

[jepop]

That's exactly right, and to me, it doesn't make sense why they would even look so far in that direction considering the timeline. It's a 34 min drive from Moscow to Kendrick, one way. That's why I think the car was seen (maybe at Safeway) driving east out on Hwy 8. Except instead of going through Troy and turning south to Kendrick, the white car actually turned south on a rural road (no cameras) maybe somewhere between Moscow and Cornwall, and got onto Styner from the south, if that makes sense. And like you said, no footage of the white Elantra in Troy and Kendrick (the most likely route from east Moscow to where he ended up turning his phone back on) could possibly rule out that he'd been through there. JMO. I know it's a crazy idea, but there had to be a reason why LE wanted footage from those areas.

No way, it's a very reasonable idea indeed, IMO.I've never had any doubts that LE were resourced enough in DEcember to competently do their due diligence, which is what this would be IMO. They would also be looking for other/any white elantras exiting the area to the east after 4.20am or coming through the area heading west pre crime IMO.

ETA: And not finding the 2014-2015 elantra in Troy/Kendrick may have then led LE to look on those rural roads east of Moscow? That's possibly when they scored the footage from Indian Hills and Styner Ave. Or maybe they had that before in the initial canvass- possibly the Styner ave - which if IRRC per PCA was at intersection of the main road. But maybe the Indian Hills Drive came later, or actually could have been traced back after locating the Styner footage. IDK just thinking aloud. MOO

 

[TL4S]

No way, it's a very reasonable idea indeed, IMO.I've never had any doubts that LE were resourced enough in DEcember to competently do their due diligence, which is what this would be IMO. They would also be looking for other/any white elantras exiting the area to the east after 4.20am or coming through the area heading west pre crime IMO.

What else is interesting to me is that the food place LE wanted footage from in Kendrick is on the main drag, which would mean going east on Hwy 3. That doesn't really jive with my theory of him going west and ending up turning his phone back on near Blaine. What earthly reason would he have to go to Kendrick (or anywhere around there) at 3-4am? So the idea he was setting up an alibi is probably dumb, unless he was going to just say he went for a drive. Just making sure he could place himself anywhere besides Moscow, and also explain his car/plates being seen on cameras. IDK. It's me filling in the blanks on why he went so far east and was seen coming back west in Moscow.

 

[al66pine]

BK's Parents. Testifying at Grand Jury?

Dana Smithers’ sister breaks silence on Bryan Kohberger’s ‘connection’ to PA cold case

Dana Smithers’ sister, Stacey Anne Smithers, said it is clear that Kohberger was not tied to her sister’s death.

nypost.com

"She clarified this week, however, that there was evidence the Pennsylvania native.... was not in the region at the time of her sister’s disappearance."
.... why was this examined by a GJ?

snipped for focus @Balthazar

From my read, I can't tell why parents were called to testify:
"The grieving relative added that she heard before Kohberger was arrested that a Pennsylvania grand jury had convened to discuss her sister’s case and other unsolved offenses."
Maybe not re Smithers case, maybe a different unsolved case? IDK.

 

[Cool Cats]

What if LE discovered DNA in the car not belonging to BK but also not a match to any victims from 1122 King?

Also, what about the animal hair collected? If it doesn't match Murphy and BK himself nor his friends/family have pets matching the hair samples, then what should LE make of that? Did LE attempt to match the hair to an animal?

I'm sure LE did discover DNA in the car not related to BK or the victims. If it is true that BK's family searched his car then right there you have family DNA. Anyone riding in his car can leave their DNA.

And it is not just the car itself but the items in the car that get tested. Alot of items were removed from BK's car.

Items bought from stores have had alot of people touching them, it would be odd to have no "stranger" DNA on any of the items seized from the car.

And we do not know if the hair that came from his apartment was an animal hair or human hair. And it is possible that the hair can't be identified.

Animal and human hair could get into someone's home from any number of sources. From items brought in, from the bottom of people's shoes, hairs that stick to your clothes, etc....

One problem can be multiple people's DNA getting mixed together.

"Too many cooks in the kitchen."

What Are The Faults to DNA Evidence in Criminal Cases?

Faults and Issues with DNA Evidence in Criminal Cases DNA evidence has become an increasingly popular tool in criminal investigations and court cases, often providing...

johndrogerslaw.com

 

[jepop]

What else is interesting to me is that the food place LE wanted footage from in Kendrick is on the main drag, which would mean going east on Hwy 3. That doesn't really jive with my theory of him going west and ending up turning his phone back on near Blaine. What earthly reason would he have to go to Kendrick (or anywhere around there) at 3-4am? So the idea he was setting up an alibi is probably dumb, unless he was going to just say he went for a drive. Just making sure he could place himself anywhere besides Moscow, and also explain his car/plates being seen on cameras. IDK. It's me filling in the blanks on why he went so far east and was seen coming back west in Moscow.

Who knows, maybe he was /is going to say he was just driving round rural roads east of Moscow for two hours. He might just dig in with that. But given the footage on Indian Hills and Styner that might be difficult. Because the odds? At3-4am on rural roads east of Moscow. I'm speculating LE are familar with any white elantra owners resident in that area. MOO. Also I've been thinking this for a long time - I think LE went through many many days and several weeks in DEC of eliminating other white elantras' whereabouts. I think LE know how many White elantras were captured on footage in Moscow and immediate surrounds between say 3.30am and 4.30am and there is probably only the one/a few? (IDK just guessing but surely not many and if there were more I believe the drivers must have come forward and have been eliminated). I also think LE were combing through local/regional rego lists and tips for the purpose of checking out possible Cars of Interest - COIs-. Moo speculating re possible LE process.

ETA: changed some times

 

[10ofRods]

RE: BK using bleach in his car and using a shower curtain to cover his car seats.

I rarely use chlorinated bleach on fabric because the bleach discolors it. I believe BK's Elantra has fabric seats. If he had used bleach to clean visible blood from his seats, carpet, or doors, wouldn't that be rather obvious?

As for the shower curtain: it is certainly possible that BK had a plastic shower curtain that he removed to use as a seat protector. However, IMO, it is not credible that he was using a shower curtain until November 12/13, removed it to protect his car from possible evidence, but did not replace the curtain at any point during the threeish weeks he was in the apartment afterwards (i.e., If he was using a shower curtain before the murders, it does not make sense that he just stopped using one after the murders).

Perhaps he doesn't use a curtain or perhaps the one he had needed to be replaced, so he tossed it before heading to PA

A quick google search would have revealed other liquids, less likely to ruin fabric, that he could have used.

However, I believe Dateline says he was using bleach in PA (according to "someone close to the investigation." That person may or may not have actually observed the bleach in use.

Why is not plausible that he just didn't replace the curtain? I lived for a couple of years in a house with no shower curtain on the shower (owner didn't want one, we students didn't care). Owner was more afraid of black mold on the curtain and didn't give a hoot about a slippery floor (with commercial grade linoleum, as student housing often has). I can remember waiting to buy one when we moved into married student housing, as we both were used to not having one. My parents never had one either (old school) and one simply directed the shower head at the tiled back wall. My parents never showered in the first place (just me), they bathed.

A whole lot of students shower at the gyms at their university facilities, which are often quite nice. And so do many faculty (there's a whole group of people who get to campus at 6 am, work out, shower and change into their teaching clothes).

IMO.

 

[TL4S]

Who knows, maybe he was /is going to say he was just driving round rural roads east of Moscow for two hours. He might just dig in with that. But given the footage on Indian Hills and Styner that might be difficult. Becaue the odds? At3-4am on rural roads east of Moscow. I'm speculate LE are familar with any white elantra owners resident in that area. MOO. Also I've been thinking this for a long time - I think LE went through many many days and several weeks in DEC of eliminating other white elantras' whereabouts. I think LE know how many White elantras were captured on footage in Moscow and immediate surrounds between say 2am and 5am and there is probably only the one/a few? (IDK just guessing but surely not many and if there were more I beleive the drivers must have come forward and have been eliminated). I also think LE were combing through local/regional rego lists and tips for the purpose of checking out possible Cars of Interest - COIs-. Moo speculating re possible LE process.

Very well could be! The best part for me, if I believe my own theory, is that BK likely put a lot of effort into the planning stage, and probably felt like he was in some special forces ops, but he blew it. He with all his digital cloud skillz still couldn't help but misstep.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

RE: BK using bleach in his car and using a shower curtain to cover his car seats.

I rarely use chlorinated bleach on fabric because the bleach discolors it. I believe BK's Elantra has fabric seats. If he had used bleach to clean visible blood from his seats, carpet, or doors, wouldn't that be rather obvious?

As for the shower curtain: it is certainly possible that BK had a plastic shower curtain that he removed to use as a seat protector. However, IMO, it is not credible that he was using a shower curtain until November 12/13, removed it to protect his car from possible evidence, but did not replace the curtain at any point during the threeish weeks he was in the apartment afterwards (i.e., If he was using a shower curtain before the murders, it does not make sense that he just stopped using one after the murders).

Perhaps he doesn't use a curtain or perhaps the one he had needed to be replaced, so he tossed it before heading to PA

I keep wondering about the shower curtain to cover the seats. I guess that could work, but there's also castoff (blood doesn't dry that fast), and he'd have been moving around, and he'd have to leave some areas uncovered just to drive and steer. Plus if he drove away at a high rate of speed as stated in the PCA, then he wasn't altogether calm perhaps.

Unless he covered every inch of the car and then removed it all after he was free of any DNA from the victims, I don't see how he could both commit the crimes and remove every bit of potential DNA in the car. Even if he did cover everything, the removal process could inadvertently leave some DNA, right? IDK, but then again, I can't do Starbucks drive-thru without spilling or getting crumbs everywhere, so maybe it's just me, but I don't see how he could keep all of their DNA out of the car.

IIRC early on some of our verified experts were explaining how DNA from skin, blood, hair, even breath were going to be all over BK and his car, so IDK if that was correct or not. Baffles me though that the car would have exonerating evidence, and the only thing I can think of is no blood or some car computer system data that would exonerate him.

 

[jepop]

IMO "totality of the evidence" gets thrown around a lot. Yes, it is important; it's how we evaluate the overall set of circumstances to draw a conclusion.
<RSBMFF>
Without GPS nailing him at the scene as opposed to cell tower evidence that places him somewhere around Moscow, that's an easily argued piece for the defense. One of the examples in the PCA put him 1.6 miles from the house at 11 pm. I mean, that's a stretch IMO - with the intention of making the evidence more compelling than it actually would be if all of the facts were included (Moscow is 6ish square miles, the university, banking and shopping were located at that busy and brightly lit intersection, etc.)

<RSBMFF>

RBBM: Just one small point on accuracy. Per PCA, we don't know where BK was when he was pinging off towers also utilised by the King's Road residence on Aug 21. When he was pulled over for that traffic stop it was 11.37pm and he was indeed about 1.6 miles from the house. But at the time he was pulled over he was utilising cellular resources consistent with the traffic stop (Corner of Pullman Highway and Farm Road) NOT the King's Road Residence. The PCA makes clear that he had been utilising cellular resources used by King Road several minutes prior to the stop, and we have no idea how close he was to the residence when this was ocurring. MOO

"One of these occasions, on August 21,2022, the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m. At approximately 11:37 p.m., Kohberger was stopped by Latah County Sheriffs Deputy CPL Duke,
as mentioned above. The 8548 Phone was utilizing cellular resources consistent with the locationof the traffic stop during this time (Farm Road and Pullman Highway)"

PCA p16.

ETA Bolded relevant section of OP post.)

ETA: Also, I'm not sure how you speculate that this particular paragraph of the PCA was written "with the intention of making the evidence more compelling than it actually would be if all of the facts were included".

 

[Odeto BJ]

A car's interior is a literal cage filter and there is going to be trace particles of a variety of forms remaining in a 8-year old car no matter how well its been cleaned...they will track back past the car's actual assemblers to personnel at factories that made the raw cloth, vinyl or leather, and molded plastics. As analysis and separation techniques stand now, to anticipate that DNA from a victim will be isolated and identified is betting on a pretty slow horse. Skin cells all look pretty much alike until they are under pretty high magnification; similar for fabric particles, hair follicles and the like. JMO.

For a moment forgetting the fluid transfers that can occur and would be much more readily identifiable, if I was intent on ensuring the detritus in a car's interior would never support such analysis I would source a lot of cast off or in place dry materials from such things as a primary protein processor (meat plant); the humane society building; a gym dressing room; maybe a barber shop; and similar sources. Mix that all up and spread it all around in my car's interior. 2-weeks later after a nominal cleaning, and it would be nearly statistically impossible to identify a single source from all the hidden particles.

In other words: Don't clean it. Contaminate it. Of course if there was blood transfer, or bodily fluids, or even a piece of a body...that's a very different topic.

JMO. Based on what I have researched on current techniques. I've never had to try it....

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

<snipped for focus>

Although I agree with most of the items on your list, this one bothers me. I believe it’s been shown that that’s exactly the time frame in which he was required by law to change to WA plates. If true, this point shouldn’t even be mentioned. (I think that it weakens the whole case to mention such an easily refuted point.)

MOO

Do we think BK is penny-wise & pound-foolish? I don’t, but that’s MOO.

There are exceptions to every rule, but most students I know trying to establish residency for tuition purposes at UI or WSU start ASAP, MOO. By waiting for his PA vehicle registration to expire, he was foolishly screwing himself out of in-state tuition for the first semester of the next academic year, it seems to me. Now, it’s certainly possible through premeditation he had determined he’d not be returning to WSU well before the murders — IDK.

For those interested, here’s a WSU link for graduate students to establish residency for tuition purposes:Establishing Residency

“Copy of State of Washington vehicle registration, if you own or use a vehicle in the state of Washington. If you use (but do not own) a vehicle, it must be registered in the state of Washington. (Must have registered vehicle 12 months prior to beginning of semester)”

BBM

While this info is for the entire (current) academic year for grad students, this gives an idea of the actual cost of waiting for his PA vehicle registration expiring — it’s not chump change, MOO.

Tuition & Expenses | Student Financial Services | Washington State University

As always, MOO

 

[Chloegirl]

How do you figure his exit route? The Police Station is north on Washington?

That was the old police department which they vacated months before (not sure when exactly) the events. They have a new (probably state of the art) station on Highway 95 headed south towards Lewiston.

Perhaps he did not know? They have not relocated their address when you Google them, so interesting.

Moscow Police Station Grand Opening set for December 16, 2021

 

[jepop]

Do we think BK is penny-wise & pound-foolish? I don’t, but that’s MOO.

There are exceptions to every rule, but most students I know trying to establish residency for tuition purposes at UI or WSU start ASAP, MOO. By waiting for his PA vehicle registration to expire, he was foolishly screwing himself out of in-state tuition for the first semester of the next academic year, it seems to me. Now, it’s certainly possible through premeditation he had determined he’d not be returning to WSU well before the murders — IDK.

For those interested, here’s a WSU link for graduate students to establish residency for tuition purposes:Establishing Residency

“Copy of State of Washington vehicle registration, if you own or use a vehicle in the state of Washington. If you use (but do not own) a vehicle, it must be registered in the state of Washington. (Must have registered vehicle 12 months prior to beginning of semester)”

BBM

While this info is for the entire (current) academic year for grad students, this gives an idea of the actual cost of waiting for his PA vehicle registration expiring — it’s not chump change, MOO.
View attachment 425007
Tuition & Expenses | Student Financial Services | Washington State University

As always, MOO

Did his registration expire before he renewed it? Not understanding. MOO

 

[Chloegirl]

Here's something interesting to me about LE collecting the surveillance footage in Troy and Kendrick. According to this article, on Nov. 30, they asked for footage from the Food City store in Kendrick.

Idaho murders: Investigators traveled at least 24 miles to collect surveillance video related to the killings

According to this article, Moscow LE asked regional LE to look for the white Elantra on Nov. 25, then three nights later is when the WSU officer ran a query for white Elantras on campus, which came back with the one from PA, and 30 min later the campus officer located BK's car.

The white sedan: How police tracked down Idaho killings suspect Bryan Kohberger

So LE didn't ask for surveillance in Kendrick until 2 days AFTER they knew who owned the suspected car. IDK why, but that's interesting to me...

Had not heard the part about Kendrick before. That area gets pretty forested quickly and I hope they combed it. It does seem too far especially if you're looking for the forest cover.