4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

[Chloegirl]

It's becoming clearer that he's trying to find a way in and also meeting resistance. I'm sure he felt blocked like it was unfair that these things were in the past or some version of that.

Working around the system, it makes me feel like the targets were used to send a message to, what, say you're going to have to work hard to catch me I'm not going to make it easy for you? Was this about the girls, the house or is this a way of saying if I can't participate I'll show you.

This could be motive. I have always felt there's an underlying current of screw you to people who told him what he needed to hear and he would not accept. JMOO

 

[twall]

Court filings mentioned in this article are posted in this thread by Nila Aella.

Idaho authorities probe Amazon 'click activity' for knives possibly connected to college killings

The murder weapon in the quadruple killings has not been found.

abcnews.go.com

Investigators probing the murders of four University of Idaho students sought records of Amazon purchases, Apple data and communications and payments made through PayPal/Venmo, according to newly released records.

Among the Amazon click history that investigators sought was information concerning knives, the search warrant shows. Police say they believe Bryan Kohberger, 28, the suspect charged in the Moscow, Idaho, killings on Nov. 13, 2022, used a knife to commit the murders. Although a knife sheath was found near the body of one of the victims, authorities say the murder weapon has not been found.

In a series of search warrant documents posted late Tuesday to the court docket, though they are dated Sept. 8, authorities requested purchase history and payment method details for an Amazon customer whose identity has been redacted.

The warrant also included a request for "all detailed customer click activity pertaining to knives and accessories," as well as a long list of information that could flesh out the customer's full shopping movements and interests on the site, including items saved to the cart, suggestions for future purchases and items reviewed by that customer.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Courtesy of The Argonaut, the University of Idaho student newspaper.

Design charette for Vandal Healing Garden to be held Friday

That is wonderful, it made me tear up. Good on everyone involved.

 

[maskedwoman]

Tanya Carmella-Beers, a former administrator at the Monroe Career and Technical Institute. She is the source of the story. Here are some articles.
And she spoke recently on Nancy Grace FOX Nation special: "Bryan Kohberger: I Am Blank."

It seems this program had very strict rules.

“Sometimes, depending on the disciplinary offense and any issues surrounding it, it may not be the student’s choice to be removed from a program — particularly a program that might have many rules and regulations in place,” Carmella-Beer said. “In general, a student can be very strong academically and perform very well in clinical work, but one or more infractions would take the opportunity to participate in that program away.”

Idaho murders suspect was kicked out of program after girls complained

Bryan Kohberger was kicked out of a high school law enforcement program after girls complained about his behavior, one of his former teachers has revealed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Bryan Kohberger was moved away from female students, admi...

One of Kohberger's former friends, Jack Baylis, also spoke to Fox Nation about the case and the arrest, saying that Kohberger often was "frustrated" with women.

www.newsweek.com

Bryan Kohberger Completed High School Online for Reasons That Remain Unclear: Report

Donna Yozwiak tells the Idaho Statesman that the 28-year-old PhD student transitioned to online learning after spending his sophomore and junior years in a technical program offered by his school district.

www.insideedition.com

This development is fascinating to me. BK being in an HVAC program, and failing to finish, makes a lot more sense now. I couldn't figure out why he was ever in HVAC at all, since he'd been gravitating toward the Army and LE early on. I wonder if Dad steered him toward that as an option once he washed out of the LE program. It's a useful, honorable career with a decent wage, and I'll bet BK would have hated every minute of it. It looks like he decided being LE adjacent as an academic or civilian support, was better than a career completely outside LE.

This history is also suggestive for how long his hatred of women has been developing. He couldn't get dates. Women apparently ghosted him regularly. Whatever happened at MCTI, he must have been livid at being forced out of the LE program (in his view) because of women.

I wonder if keeping all that rage bottled up is why he always looks so "flat". MOOooo

 

[schooling]

Court filings mentioned in this article are posted in this thread by Nila Aella.

Idaho authorities probe Amazon 'click activity' for knives possibly connected to college killings

The murder weapon in the quadruple killings has not been found.

abcnews.go.com

Investigators probing the murders of four University of Idaho students sought records of Amazon purchases, Apple data and communications and payments made through PayPal/Venmo, according to newly released records.

Among the Amazon click history that investigators sought was information concerning knives, the search warrant shows. Police say they believe Bryan Kohberger, 28, the suspect charged in the Moscow, Idaho, killings on Nov. 13, 2022, used a knife to commit the murders. Although a knife sheath was found near the body of one of the victims, authorities say the murder weapon has not been found.

In a series of search warrant documents posted late Tuesday to the court docket, though they are dated Sept. 8, authorities requested purchase history and payment method details for an Amazon customer whose identity has been redacted.

The warrant also included a request for "all detailed customer click activity pertaining to knives and accessories," as well as a long list of information that could flesh out the customer's full shopping movements and interests on the site, including items saved to the cart, suggestions for future purchases and items reviewed by that customer.

Interesting...

That Youtube warrant looks like boilerplate requests specific to a Channel owner. Not a viewer. It is possible to accidentally (or intentionally) create a channel and not upload any content to it though. I'd imagine that LE would still want the information requested in the warrant even with empty accounts.

I wonder if LE found a channel that BK himself ran. Or maybe LE found a comment on a Youtube channel, not owned by BK, that hit a little too close to home.

 

[schooling]

Another thought on the warrants. Dateline claimed that LE has evidence from Amazon that BK purchased a knife in April. I think the STRONGEST evidence that we have supporting this claim is here in the Amazon warrant...

The warrant is for...
March 20, 2022 - March 30,2022

I wouldn't be surprised if LE has evidence that BK made the purchase on 4/1/2022. Fitting the 'April' time that Dateline gave. LE wants click activity to start to build a digital trail to that purchase. See what else might have been in his cart that never made checkout.

So why the 2nd window of dates (11/1/2022 - 12/6/2022)? Why the venmo and paypal?

I think LE believes that BK used Amazon to order more mundane its in preparation for the crime that might not raise eyebrows.

I also believe that LE is probably still missing an item or two that they suspect BK used to commit the crimes. And that they are looking into Venmo to find any private sales BK may have been involved in.

MOO

 

[Puzzles]

Hmm. Well, we use the information in forensic anthropology all the time. I would assume the FBI would provide this analysis (but maybe not, who knows?)

We're talking close analysis of the latent or bloody footprint. It will show whether the person has a high arch or a medium one or a low one. It will also show the relative length of the toes (in most cases). This would be true whether the footprint was in water or blood or some other substance. We have deduced tons of information about ancient hominids due to their foot prints

Snipped and BBM:

Are you perhaps confusing footprints and shoeprints? Would a shoeprint show the details you've listed for a footprint?

The reason I ask is because of your sentence:
We have deduced tons of information about ancient hominids due to their foot prints

I know you know ancient hominids didn't wear shoes. Perhaps they wore foot coverings, but not shoes similar in structure to Vans.

The latent print found in the house after the murder is a shoeprint, not a footprint.

 

[maskedwoman]

Snipped and BBM:

Are you perhaps confusing footprints and shoeprints? Would a shoeprint show the details you've listed for a footprint?

The reason I ask is because of your sentence:
We have deduced tons of information about ancient hominids due to their foot prints

I know you know ancient hominids didn't wear shoes. Perhaps they wore foot coverings, but not shoes similar in structure to Vans.

The latent print found in the house after the murder is a shoeprint, not a footprint.

Not to answer for @10ofRods who is an anthropologist and knows more about this subject of footprints than I ever will, but I do know a bit about shoes. I used to work in a shoe store and I have had foot problems for a long time. A lot more can be derived from a shoe print than you might think. Wearing the same shoe, a person with a high arch makes a different impression than someone with a low or fallen arch. I know this because I have one of each. The difference is quite obvious when I'm barefoot, of course. But I can still see it when I wear shoes because the flatter arch on my left foot puts more of the shoe sole firmly in contact with the ground.

I checked and some Vans were designed with minimal arch support in order to provide better contact between skater and skateboard. Others have better arch support, but with "Van-like" being all we have heard about the print, we don't know whether it was a cheap knock off with little to no support or a genuine better model Van. And I don't recall hearing if we know much of anything about his normal footprints. Another example would be if someone deliberately wore larger shoes than their regular size, with any kind of decent construction, the natural curve of the shoe's design would prevent the toes of the print from contacting the ground as deeply as normal. How much would depend on the shoe. MOOooo

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Re the shoeprint / footprint

I've wondered this out loud before -but- what if BK (if guilty) being forensically aware and having planned the murder event to quite some extent purchased a pair of second hand vans off an online site or in a market or second hand / goodwill store (here in the UK we call them 'charity shops')?

If they were already worn in places and maybe he even put some covers over them, they could be giving false info. Or conversely, if they were absolutely brand new never been worn before, surely they wouldn't give much away?

He would surely know that the biggest imprint he's leaving behind is the shoe print from his whole body weight and there's not much can be done to prevent that, unlike wearing cover alls, gloves, balaclava etc would keep other parts of the body masked, you can't mask the weight of your body and the feet touching the ground with the exception of disguising your very feet coverings themselves.

 

[Cool Cats]

Re the shoeprint / footprint

I've wondered this out loud before -but- what if BK (if guilty) being forensically aware and having planned the murder event to quite some extent purchased a pair of second hand vans off an online site or in a market or second hand / goodwill store (here in the UK we call them 'charity shops')?

If they were already worn in places and maybe he even put some covers over them, they could be giving false info. Or conversely, if they were absolutely brand new never been worn before, surely they wouldn't give much away?

He would surely know that the biggest imprint he's leaving behind is the shoe print from his whole body weight and there's not much can be done to prevent that, unlike wearing cover alls, gloves, balaclava etc would keep other parts of the body masked, you can't mask the weight of your body and the feet touching the ground with the exception of disguising your very feet coverings themselves.

They can tell if the tread is worn and it is actually a clue if it is new not worn tread. It indicates the shoes were bought just to use on the night of the crimes.

I saw this happen in a different murder case. The killers bought their shoes 3 weeks before the murders and their bloody shoe prints showed that they were wearing shoes with new tread.

They also bought shoes in sizes and styles they did not wear.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Exactly. It's really easy to see pronation and over-pronation (and much else) from a single footprint.

A typical Vans skater shoe has a heavy, very flat, inflexible sole. Slip-on style could be an easy in-out quick change: not expensive, available black upper & black sole to complete the all black hiding in the dark attire.

In cases I have followed I have never heard of bloody shoe prints giving out that much information. I don't see how all that could be deduced. I know you have mentioned in the past a slew of information shoe prints give out but I'm wondering how it is possible to get more than the foot size.

are you referring to OJ and the Ugly- Bruno Magli Shoes? And bloody distinct shoe prints at NB house?? OJ famously said would never wear shoes so ugly as these Italian-made designer, & not many made shoes in his size, then jury is shown photo of him wearing the exact shoes and a receipt is also found for the purchase of the shoes … and well, we know what happened.
For BK I’m guessing: did he buy any Vans, is seen on any cctv ever wearing, did he buy all-black slip-on loafer style as part of his creeper kit that he quick changed it of before getting back into his car? Unlike Bruno Magli, Vans are very popular so unless the find the exact pair w blood on, it’s a dead end.

 

[Cool Cats]

A typical Vans skater shoe has a heavy, very flat, inflexible sole. Slip-on style could be an easy in-out quick change: not expensive, available black upper & black sole to complete the all black hiding in the dark attire.

are you referring to OJ and the Ugly-*advertiser censored* Bruno Magli Shoes? And bloody distinct shoe prints at NB house?? OJ famously said would never wear shoes so ugly as these Italian-made designer, & not many made shoes in his size, then jury is shown photo of him wearing the exact shoes and a receipt is also found for the purchase of the shoes … and well, we know what happened.
For BK I’m guessing: did he buy any Vans, is seen on any cctv ever wearing, did he buy all-black slip-on loafer style as part of his creeper kit that he quick changed it of before getting back into his car? Unlike Bruno Magli, Vans are very popular so unless the find the exact pair w blood on, it’s a dead end.

I'm referring to the murderous Wagner family from Ohio. They killed 8 members of the Rhoden family over custody. One more trial to go next year.

The bloody Van print is likely BK's print considering what we know.

I believe BK did what the Wagners' did. Bought new shoes with new tread, no tread wear, to use for that night. Buying shoes a size different from his normal size and shoes he never wears.

Unless there is proof that BK bought Vans matching the style and size of the print, there is no way to tie him to the shoe print.

It did say in the PCA that the bloody shoe print confirms the witness statement that the man she saw walked past her room, and the print would confirm what direction BK was walking - towards the second floor sliding glass door that he apparently used to exit the house.

Where the print was located and direction of the print confirm witness testimony.

2 Cents

 

[katydid23]

....snipped by me for focus....

Not saying you are incorrect, but then how would one explain other murderers (like BTK) who present themselves as not having a bad "Character"?

I've seen accounts of BTK presenting himself with bad character. When he had the job where he was giving out tickets for infractions, it was reported that he was cold, rude and petty. He was strict and mean about silly things like height of one's lawn being a few inches over, and giving a widow a hefty fine, just because he could. [hypothetical but similar to examples used]

I think some murderers are better able to cope and hide their evil sides, easier than others are. JMO

 

[katydid23]

For those interested in reading chapters 9G2 and 12E3 reportedly cited in WSU’s termination letter to BK, you can find them here. Pretty standard & clear, MOO.

https://emailwsu.sharepoint.com/teams/gradschool.documentshare/Shared Documents/Forms/AllItems.aspx?id=/teams/gradschool.documentshare/Shared Documents/Policy and Procedure/Archive P&P Manuals/2022-23-gradschool-policies-procedures-16may2022.pdf&parent=/teams/gradschool.documentshare/Shared Documents/Policy and Procedure/Archive P&P Manuals&p=true&ga=1

HTH

edited to correct grammar (it to them)

Also edited to add 2-10-2023 NYT “University Investigated Idaho Murder Suspect’s Behavior Around Time of Killings” gift link
“Mr. Kohberger began having troubles about a month into the fall semester, his first at Washington State. He had an “altercation” on Sept. 23 with John Snyder, the W.S.U. professor he was assisting, according to the termination letter, a copy of which was obtained by The New York Times.”

BBM

A grad school student having 'an altercation' with his designated professor is a very big red flag. Who is the ONE person he had to really connect well with if he wanted to succeed? ----His professor. And BK couldn't make it work?

It has been said that BK was a bit of a prideful know-it-all. I imagine he may have tried to act that way with his designated professor, and he got some pushback from him. Things went sideways.

Being an 'assistant' is a very very difficult job for people with big egos. I think it was very difficult for BK, 'the brilliant, stand out student', to be told what to do and how to do it.

Someone with humility and good communication skills could have learned how to navigate that situation, imo. But I think BK was unable to take those social cues and alter his own behaviour to build a rapport with others. I don't think he takes criticism well. [ to put it lightly.] JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

I've seen accounts of BTK presenting himself with bad character. When he had the job where he was giving out tickets for infractions, it was reported that he was cold, rude and petty. He was strict and mean about silly things like height of one's lawn being a few inches over, and giving a widow a hefty fine, just because he could. [hypothetical but similar to examples used]

I think some murderers are better able to cope and hide their evil sides, easier than others are. JMO

I've seen those accounts, yet I've also seen accounts where he was active in his church and a Boy Scout leader. The average person wouldn't call that bad character. Ted Bundy was "charming" and fooled a lot of people. I know a lot of cold, rude and petty people who are not (to my knowledge) murderers.

I suppose my point was that a person who could do something like this may not show the "dark" side to many people, if anyone. Or they could be an obvious societal misfit. The man who murdered my friend went off on his merry way and as far as anyone knows, never killed again in nearly 40 years. So I agree that some are better able to cope. I'm just not sure in my mind what kind of "character" I would think to expect in a person who could kill ANYONE, much less four people in the middle of the night, leaving two alive. The "He's just so quiet" type, or the "we all expected this to happen" type, or the "Average slightly off kilter person that was annoying but didn't seem like he'd kill anyone" type, or the "He might as well have had killer tattooed on his forehead" type. Or even the " He must have just snapped" type. I would not have expected this guy, so I must assume there is so much more to this story. I don't believe they arrested him without good cause. I, personally, just don't see him as planning on killing 4 of 6 when 1 may or may not have been there (Ethan), and one other just ended up there when they had been gone (Kaylee).

 

[10ofRods]

Snipped and BBM:

Are you perhaps confusing footprints and shoeprints? Would a shoeprint show the details you've listed for a footprint?

The reason I ask is because of your sentence:
We have deduced tons of information about ancient hominids due to their foot prints

I know you know ancient hominids didn't wear shoes. Perhaps they wore foot coverings, but not shoes similar in structure to Vans.

The latent print found in the house after the murder is a shoeprint, not a footprint.

Yes. Close analysis of a shoe print will reveal something of the foot mechanics. And there is more than the latent print, because that’s what latent means.

 

[dmac55]

Gait, Footprints, and Footwear: How Forensic Podiatry Can Identify Criminals - Police Chief Magazine

https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/gait-footprints-and-footwear-how-forensic-podiatry-can-identify-criminals/

 

[Jurisprudence]

Maybe the defense wants to drag this out so long as to "bore" the general public about it so that the jury pool is bigger. I don't know what they will try next

Moo, the goal is always to try to put as much distance as possible between the events (crimes) and the (defendant's) trial. Problem is, many defendants got this wish by default when Covid hit and it hasn't helped many of them.

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

What I notice is right on schedule for the hearing that would have been held, we have news articles featuring some "friend" of BK "remembering" a "scary revelation" about BK.

Bryan Kohberger's friend had scary revelation after Idaho...

"He was just a normal guy with normal circumstances, as far as I know," the friend said about Kohberger.

www.newsweek.com

Change of venue - IF and IMO it's a big IF this doesn't get reversed and BK doesn't get a PH, then yeah, I would think the next thing would be to ask for a change of venue.

I am wondering how far AT plans to take her charges against the prosecutor.

Worked for Lori Vallow. Wait...

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

Was this the buddy who used to go on several-mile runs w BK at night and who was interviewed & quoted many months ago? Anyone recall?

______________________________________
* Bryan Kohberger's friend had scary revelation after Idaho murder arrest

I forgot about that guy. I wonder if he was ever interviewed by LE and the prosecutor's office bc when we learned of him he was only interviewed by news media, right?