4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I'm only at the start of this but the Judge says the press and public have access to the courtroom (without cameras) but is this really an accurate statement? Wasn't it said on multiple occasions that his courtroom was the size of a bathroom? I recall Brian Entin remarking about the small size and lack of seating.

jmo

It’s a decent sized courtroom, MOO.

I don’t know that any courtroom is “big enough” when there’s international media interest, especially when there are four treasured victims with many, many loved ones.

 

[10ofRods]

It is ironic that there are cameras there while this discussion is going on. What I noticed first is that AT has placed another woman in between her and BK. And I do wonder what it must be like to have a moral and ethical obligation to defend a person, when that person is very hard to defend (and might very well be inappropriate/misogynistic if we had all the discovery - as AT does). If it were me, I'd feel as if I had to bend over backwards to do my job right.

The twitching lip of BK is really pronounced. To me, that says "I sure do wish I could talk; my brain is sending impulses to my lips, but I am not allowed to speak." I didn't notice that before. With his waiver of his right to a speedy trial may be wearing on him - because this is going to be his life (minor hearings...no trial...for a long time).

I can't help typing out that he seems hurt, disappointed, abandoned by the distance between himself and AT and when the other lawyer gaily waves to someone in the courtroom, he looks past her (annoyed?) and clearly understands why AT has done this - it's not the most client-friendly seating arrangement. He is being distanced. And no wonder - can anyone really imagine dealing with him (being near to him) at this point in the case? AT knows all the details. I paused right at 1:40 (you are the best, @steeltowngirl - so perceptive). He looks forlorn, suspicious, no longer smiling stiffly at her. While he can't speak, his lips and vocal tract become active again - he's writing her off, basically. Yet ANOTHER blonde who is dissing him? I realize I'm probably reading too much into it - but I also agree with @Chloegirl that he's probably trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) to issue instructions to his face.

But he sort of gulps and readies his face/lips for speaking - but of course can't do so. In the seconds that follow, he sort of shakes his head a tiny bit, and has this resigned look, like "This is my life, as usual, it sucks." Rocks back and forth just a little, and yes, settles himself down in sad resignation.

Was he hoping this would be a social occasion? AT appears not to look at him at all. I see this as a crack in the defense. Surely she wishes he'd go for a plea bargain? Or something? I bet AT and BK disagree on quite a few things, but I also think he gives her almost nothing to work with. It's as if he thought she was going to smile at him (esp as she's not seated next to him) but he's disappointed and dejected when she doesn't.

No. Self. Awareness. (in the usual sense of the words). AT's sitting next to him at these endless hearings are the high points of his current life. I bet that new lawyer will play this role in future, as well. Anyway, it was way more body language from him than I've ever noticed before.

TL;DR BK looks dejected.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Today's hearing

Thanks for that link — while NewsNation did a decent job of dating their footage to indicate it wasn’t from today, I think there was some confusion. I’m grateful to see the footage from this afternoon’s hearing!

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Does anyone know if the sealed Motion hearing scheduled for earlier this morning still took place?
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...-to-Remove-Cam-Vacating-Trial- Sched-Ordr.pdf

 

[jepop]

Does anyone know if the sealed Motion hearing scheduled for earlier this morning still took place?
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/083123-Order-Vacating-Hearing-on-Defs-Motn-to-Remove-Cam-Vacating-Trial- Sched-Ordr.pdf
View attachment 446862

That's for 22nd September.

 

[twall]

It is ironic that there are cameras there while this discussion is going on. What I noticed first is that AT has placed another woman in between her and BK. And I do wonder what it must be like to have a moral and ethical obligation to defend a person, when that person is very hard to defend (and might very well be inappropriate/misogynistic if we had all the discovery - as AT does). If it were me, I'd feel as if I had to bend over backwards to do my job right.

The twitching lip of BK is really pronounced. To me, that says "I sure do wish I could talk; my brain is sending impulses to my lips, but I am not allowed to speak." I didn't notice that before. With his waiver of his right to a speedy trial may be wearing on him - because this is going to be his life (minor hearings...no trial...for a long time).

I can't help typing out that he seems hurt, disappointed, abandoned by the distance between himself and AT and when the other lawyer gaily waves to someone in the courtroom, he looks past her (annoyed?) and clearly understands why AT has done this - it's not the most client-friendly seating arrangement. He is being distanced. And no wonder - can anyone really imagine dealing with him (being near to him) at this point in the case? AT knows all the details. I paused right at 1:40 (you are the best, @steeltowngirl - so perceptive). He looks forlorn, suspicious, no longer smiling stiffly at her. While he can't speak, his lips and vocal tract become active again - he's writing her off, basically. Yet ANOTHER blonde who is dissing him? I realize I'm probably reading too much into it - but I also agree with @Chloegirl that he's probably trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) to issue instructions to his face.

But he sort of gulps and readies his face/lips for speaking - but of course can't do so. In the seconds that follow, he sort of shakes his head a tiny bit, and has this resigned look, like "This is my life, as usual, it sucks." Rocks back and forth just a little, and yes, settles himself down in sad resignation.

Was he hoping this would be a social occasion? AT appears not to look at him at all. I see this as a crack in the defense. Surely she wishes he'd go for a plea bargain? Or something? I bet AT and BK disagree on quite a few things, but I also think he gives her almost nothing to work with. It's as if he thought she was going to smile at him (esp as she's not seated next to him) but he's disappointed and dejected when she doesn't.

No. Self. Awareness. (in the usual sense of the words). AT's sitting next to him at these endless hearings are the high points of his current life. I bet that new lawyer will play this role in future, as well. Anyway, it was way more body language from him than I've ever noticed before.

TL;DR BK looks dejected.

That is from an earlier hearing. AT sat next to BK today.

 

[twall]

BE on Cuomo

 

[al66pine]

A. Media standing to challenge closure Archives

www.rcfp.org

Just parking this here for anyone interested.
I.C.A.R. 45
jmo

@Jurisprudence. Thanks for posting this link.
"Idaho Court Administrative Rule 45. Cameras In the Courtroom"

I.C.A.R. 45. Cameras In the Courtroom | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

Another related rule:
"Idaho Court Administrative Rule 49. Electronic Devices in Court Facilities."

I.C.A.R. 49. Electronic Devices in Court Facilities. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

The link below contains a "plain language" version of the above rules. It also covers other points which may be helpful, esp'ly to ppl new-ish to the case.
The link is included on the first post of each new thread of this case.

"Media Guide to the Idaho Courts"

https://isc.idaho.gov/files/ISC_Media_Guide_2020.pdf

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

That's for 22nd September.

Thanks — LOL. I messed up my calendar entry, ROTFLOL

 

[Jurisprudence]

Kohberger judge says he is sending out a message to the media to be respectful, peaceful, and decent.

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin

I wish he would choose his words better and strike a more conciliatory tone when addressing this issue.
Him saying this (in the way he does) gives the public (and by extension, the prospective jury pool), the impression that the press has been untruthful.

That's just not accurate imo. His problem, if he has one, is with social media. And, that problem is imo, a direct result/product of the gag order. People came out with all sorts of outlandish conspiracy theories to fill that void of empty facts.

When you don't provide people with facts and information, they tend to want to "fill in the gaps." This is not a media issue.

All jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

@Jurisprudence. Thanks for posting this link.
"Idaho Court Administrative Rule 45. Cameras In the Courtroom"

I.C.A.R. 45. Cameras In the Courtroom | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

Another related rule:
"Idaho Court Administrative Rule 49. Electronic Devices in Court Facilities."

I.C.A.R. 49. Electronic Devices in Court Facilities. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

The link below contains a "plain language" version of the above rules. It also covers other points which may be helpful, esp'ly to ppl new-ish to the case.
The link is included on the first post of each new thread of this case.

"Media Guide to the Idaho Courts"

https://isc.idaho.gov/files/ISC_Media_Guide_2020.pdf

The first link has cites to a slew of decisions on the matter. First, all Federal Circuits, then it moves onto the states.

 

[Jurisprudence]

I don't see how the argument that people being told what happened is "more accurate" than people being able to see it, hear it, and judge for themselves. Schabusiness, Menendez, Casey Anthony, Murdaugh, the list of cameras at trial is endless. One only has to inventory Court TVs YouTube site. Bryan Kohberger shouldn't be treated as special. And, the families should be able to weigh in on this. Imo they are victims too.

jmo

 

[BeachSky]

It is ironic that there are cameras there while this discussion is going on. What I noticed first is that AT has placed another woman in between her and BK. And I do wonder what it must be like to have a moral and ethical obligation to defend a person, when that person is very hard to defend (and might very well be inappropriate/misogynistic if we had all the discovery - as AT does). If it were me, I'd feel as if I had to bend over backwards to do my job right.

The twitching lip of BK is really pronounced. To me, that says "I sure do wish I could talk; my brain is sending impulses to my lips, but I am not allowed to speak." I didn't notice that before. With his waiver of his right to a speedy trial may be wearing on him - because this is going to be his life (minor hearings...no trial...for a long time).

I can't help typing out that he seems hurt, disappointed, abandoned by the distance between himself and AT and when the other lawyer gaily waves to someone in the courtroom, he looks past her (annoyed?) and clearly understands why AT has done this - it's not the most client-friendly seating arrangement. He is being distanced. And no wonder - can anyone really imagine dealing with him (being near to him) at this point in the case? AT knows all the details. I paused right at 1:40 (you are the best, @steeltowngirl - so perceptive). He looks forlorn, suspicious, no longer smiling stiffly at her. While he can't speak, his lips and vocal tract become active again - he's writing her off, basically. Yet ANOTHER blonde who is dissing him? I realize I'm probably reading too much into it - but I also agree with @Chloegirl that he's probably trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) to issue instructions to his face.

But he sort of gulps and readies his face/lips for speaking - but of course can't do so. In the seconds that follow, he sort of shakes his head a tiny bit, and has this resigned look, like "This is my life, as usual, it sucks." Rocks back and forth just a little, and yes, settles himself down in sad resignation.

Was he hoping this would be a social occasion? AT appears not to look at him at all. I see this as a crack in the defense. Surely she wishes he'd go for a plea bargain? Or something? I bet AT and BK disagree on quite a few things, but I also think he gives her almost nothing to work with. It's as if he thought she was going to smile at him (esp as she's not seated next to him) but he's disappointed and dejected when she doesn't.

No. Self. Awareness. (in the usual sense of the words). AT's sitting next to him at these endless hearings are the high points of his current life. I bet that new lawyer will play this role in future, as well. Anyway, it was way more body language from him than I've ever noticed before.

TL;DR BK looks dejected.

Greatly stated. He looks pale. He entered court room,arms down in an odd forward hanging pattern. Lots of cuff showing?
Not his previous bravado.
Looks -whooped- IMO .

 

[al66pine]

The first link has cites to a slew of decisions on the matter. First, all Federal Circuits, then it moves onto the states.

@Jurisprudence
Thanks for noting this.
"A. Media standing to challenge closure"

A. Media standing to challenge closure Archives

www.rcfp.org

Was not familiar w RCFP org which addresses a wide range of free press topics.
"All Topics
Content Restrictions
Court Access
Freedom of Information
Libel and Privacy
Newsgathering
Prior Restraint
Reporter’s Privilege"

Interesting reading. Thx again.

 

[10ofRods]

Greatly stated. He looks pale. He entered court room,arms down in an odd forward hanging pattern. Lots of cuff showing?
Not his previous bravado.
Looks -whooped- IMO .

Makes me think that maybe (just maybe) his defense team finally got through to him just how much evidence there is and how little he gains (personally) by the delay tactic (it's a legal delay - it's an allowed delay, it's still a delay).

It's sinking in. He gets to pretend to be an upstanding suit-wearing, fairly well-heeled citizen when he appears in court briefly. But he knows that this is his life now. Mostly jail cell. No one likes him (IMO).

And his own attorney doesn't want to sit next to him. NO one makes eye contact with him. He's in the same stilted world he was in prior to his extreme actions. Good catch on the arms. And his bravado is missing.

Wonder why. Something has happened - I have nothing, other than that he is internalizing that by waiving his right to a speedy trial...it has consequences. Opposite of "rapid exoneration." Or any version thereof.

And I feel for Moscow, for all of Idaho and for that Judge - because they are the ones who have to bear the pain and grief of his decisions.

OTOH, I am thinking the State is refusing a plea bargain. I'm glad I can't imagine what it would be like to be in his situation.

 

[Sundog]

Thanks for that link — while NewsNation did a decent job of dating their footage to indicate it wasn’t from today, I think there was some confusion. I’m grateful to see the footage from this afternoon’s hearing!

Thanks for posting the correct video of today's court hearing. In today's video, at today's hearing, we see AT showing BK where to sit, patting his chair so he knows where to sit between AT and the other attorney on the defense team who presented the defense's argument against having cameras in the courtroom. BK was sitting in the middle and next to AT.

edited to add: AT is busy organizing her papers but smiles at BK as he takes his seat next to her.

Seems we were all looking at the wrong video earlier.

 

[katydid23]

dbm

 

[Boxer]

It is ironic that there are cameras there while this discussion is going on. What I noticed first is that AT has placed another woman in between her and BK. And I do wonder what it must be like to have a moral and ethical obligation to defend a person, when that person is very hard to defend (and might very well be inappropriate/misogynistic if we had all the discovery - as AT does). If it were me, I'd feel as if I had to bend over backwards to do my job right.

The twitching lip of BK is really pronounced. To me, that says "I sure do wish I could talk; my brain is sending impulses to my lips, but I am not allowed to speak." I didn't notice that before. With his waiver of his right to a speedy trial may be wearing on him - because this is going to be his life (minor hearings...no trial...for a long time).

I can't help typing out that he seems hurt, disappointed, abandoned by the distance between himself and AT and when the other lawyer gaily waves to someone in the courtroom, he looks past her (annoyed?) and clearly understands why AT has done this - it's not the most client-friendly seating arrangement. He is being distanced. And no wonder - can anyone really imagine dealing with him (being near to him) at this point in the case? AT knows all the details. I paused right at 1:40 (you are the best, @steeltowngirl - so perceptive). He looks forlorn, suspicious, no longer smiling stiffly at her. While he can't speak, his lips and vocal tract become active again - he's writing her off, basically. Yet ANOTHER blonde who is dissing him? I realize I'm probably reading too much into it - but I also agree with @Chloegirl that he's probably trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) to issue instructions to his face.

But he sort of gulps and readies his face/lips for speaking - but of course can't do so. In the seconds that follow, he sort of shakes his head a tiny bit, and has this resigned look, like "This is my life, as usual, it sucks." Rocks back and forth just a little, and yes, settles himself down in sad resignation.

Was he hoping this would be a social occasion? AT appears not to look at him at all. I see this as a crack in the defense. Surely she wishes he'd go for a plea bargain? Or something? I bet AT and BK disagree on quite a few things, but I also think he gives her almost nothing to work with. It's as if he thought she was going to smile at him (esp as she's not seated next to him) but he's disappointed and dejected when she doesn't.

No. Self. Awareness. (in the usual sense of the words). AT's sitting next to him at these endless hearings are the high points of his current life. I bet that new lawyer will play this role in future, as well. Anyway, it was way more body language from him than I've ever noticed before.

TL;DR BK looks dejected.

Thats what I saw the last court appearance as well. The attorney next to him does anything she can to talk to someone else and twists away every chance she has. AT insulating kerself.

 

[iamshadow21]

I know I bang on about Gannon's case a lot, but the whole trial was on camera, and I can't think of anything further from a circus, and with the defendant they had, and the crime in question, it had every possibility of being one. It was a world away from OJ, or Bundy's trials in Florida, and I think so much of that is down to the deportment of the prosecution, the defense, and, most importantly, the judge. We can't put all the blame on the media if a trial turns into a dramafest.

MOO

 

[schooling]

It is ironic that there are cameras there while this discussion is going on. What I noticed first is that AT has placed another woman in between her and BK. And I do wonder what it must be like to have a moral and ethical obligation to defend a person, when that person is very hard to defend (and might very well be inappropriate/misogynistic if we had all the discovery - as AT does). If it were me, I'd feel as if I had to bend over backwards to do my job right.

The twitching lip of BK is really pronounced. To me, that says "I sure do wish I could talk; my brain is sending impulses to my lips, but I am not allowed to speak." I didn't notice that before. With his waiver of his right to a speedy trial may be wearing on him - because this is going to be his life (minor hearings...no trial...for a long time).

I can't help typing out that he seems hurt, disappointed, abandoned by the distance between himself and AT and when the other lawyer gaily waves to someone in the courtroom, he looks past her (annoyed?) and clearly understands why AT has done this - it's not the most client-friendly seating arrangement. He is being distanced. And no wonder - can anyone really imagine dealing with him (being near to him) at this point in the case? AT knows all the details. I paused right at 1:40 (you are the best, @steeltowngirl - so perceptive). He looks forlorn, suspicious, no longer smiling stiffly at her. While he can't speak, his lips and vocal tract become active again - he's writing her off, basically. Yet ANOTHER blonde who is dissing him? I realize I'm probably reading too much into it - but I also agree with @Chloegirl that he's probably trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) to issue instructions to his face.

But he sort of gulps and readies his face/lips for speaking - but of course can't do so. In the seconds that follow, he sort of shakes his head a tiny bit, and has this resigned look, like "This is my life, as usual, it sucks." Rocks back and forth just a little, and yes, settles himself down in sad resignation.

Was he hoping this would be a social occasion? AT appears not to look at him at all. I see this as a crack in the defense. Surely she wishes he'd go for a plea bargain? Or something? I bet AT and BK disagree on quite a few things, but I also think he gives her almost nothing to work with. It's as if he thought she was going to smile at him (esp as she's not seated next to him) but he's disappointed and dejected when she doesn't.

No. Self. Awareness. (in the usual sense of the words). AT's sitting next to him at these endless hearings are the high points of his current life. I bet that new lawyer will play this role in future, as well. Anyway, it was way more body language from him than I've ever noticed before.

TL;DR BK looks dejected.

I predicted he’d see high turnover amongst his group of lawyers / experts before the trial started.

I got toasted for it.

After reading your take. I’m even more convinced now.