4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[Justice101]

How will they get the stargazing alibi into evidence without his testimony?

Very good question!

Can they cite a written statement from BK? But wouldn't that just allow the prosecution to call him as a witness?

If so, the defense will not produce the alibi and if the defense causally says their client has an alibi, Katy Bar the Door, all heck is going to break loose!

 

[SortaSleuthy]

Oh ok. Now I'm confused! But I'll assume, in playing Devil's advocate, you must still acknowledge despite your belief, that BK may testify either by his own insistence or on the advice of his attorneys?. Because that is the only way to bring this claim into evidence: ie for
BK say his knife disappeared from a draw at WSU as an explanation for his DNA on the use point. Jmo

For many reasons already touched upon by others, BK testifying in the way envisaged by your post would have so many pitfalls. I am guessing absolutely no way this will be the D strategy. Moo

There lies BK’s difficulty, he can raise reasonable doubt in the minds of 1+ jurors on the most damning evidence (the DNA) but to do so he would convict himself on cross on other evidence. I hope he is tormented by night sweats.

 

[Sundog]

How will they get the stargazing alibi into evidence without his testimony?

For the alibi defense, IIRC, BK's attorney indicated that the witness (or witnesses) to BK's alibi defense are actually witnesses for the prosecution and that she would call upon them at trial to provide testimony that supports BK's alibi defense.

Also, IIRC, AT also requested an ex parte hearing with Judge Judge to discuss the issue. Not sure if the ex parte hearing ever took place.

 

[Justice101]

For the alibi defense, IIRC, BK's attorney indicated that the witness (or witnesses) to BK's alibi defense are actually witnesses for the prosecution and that she would call upon them at trial to provide testimony that supports BK's alibi defense.

Also, IIRC, AT also requested an ex parte hearing with Judge Judge to discuss the issue. Not sure if the ex parte hearing ever took place.

the alibi will be to the to the tune of the defense cross examine the cell tower witness for example:

Defense: "Can you exclude the possibility that my client was up on a ridge watching stars instead of on a road because your data only shows an arc when his cell phone was?"

Lame, lame lame. Will not fly with the jury.

My guess is the cell phone data will come early or last in the presentation. probably first to show the jury the timeline.

 

[CKS]

There lies BK’s difficulty, he can raise reasonable doubt in the minds of 1+ jurors on the most damning evidence (the DNA) but to do so he would convict himself on cross on other evidence. I hope he is tormented by night sweats.

All MOO

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the prosecution say they did not plan on using the IGG/DNA during the trial?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

There lies BK’s difficulty, he can raise reasonable doubt in the minds of 1+ jurors on the most damning evidence (the DNA) but to do so he would convict himself on cross on other evidence. I hope he is tormented by night sweats.

The jury usually get it right IMO, so far all the cases I've followed here on WS we've worried that a juror might have doubts that go against the evidence or what most of us agree to be the case but it's never actually happened.

 

[Wallendo]

Looking at the trial of Casey Anthony, who IMO was absolutely guilty, the defense presented her dad as a viable perpetrator. And there are people who still believe this.

In OJ Simpson's trial, IIRC, it was a combination plate of sloppy (and racist) police work, and of course Some Other Dude Did It.

I think this defense will also present the same type of defense.

At the time of his original arrest, OJ was a very popular public figure, Successful athlete, Hertz commercials, movie appearances and so forth. Many people just couldn't bring themselves to believe that "The Juice" would commit such a crime.

For the Anthony trial, Casey was coiffed and dressed to maximize "cuteness". The jury looked at her in court every day, and couldn't bring themselves to convict.

Also, in both of those cases, the flow of the trials were scattered and confusing. In the OJ case, disorganized evidence was presented over a year and the jury ended up focusing only on the timeline from the limo driver. In Casey Anthony's case, it seems like her parents were constantly on and off the stand.

BK is not well-known and definitely not well-loved. He is not going to draw sympathy in court. Unless the defense can somehow exclude the DNA evidence, his chances of "beating the rap" are, in my opinion, minimal.

 

[jepop]

There lies BK’s difficulty, he can raise reasonable doubt in the minds of 1+ jurors on the most damning evidence (the DNA) but to do so he would convict himself on cross on other evidence. I hope he is tormented by night sweats.

Ah, I see where you're coming from. Incisive points. There's no real exit, each door might open a crack before blowing shut on the wind of the Totality. Thanks for the insight!

 

[Swansee]

All MOO

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the prosecution say they did not plan on using the IGG/DNA during the trial?

IIRC they said they wouldn't use IGG, since according to the Prosecution, the IGG was only a tip and was not what they relied on to identify BK. The Defense obviously appears to contest that it was only a tip, and believes they relied heavily if not solely on IGG to identify BK as a suspect.
Whatever the case may be regarding IGG, the Prosecution will definitely be using the direct DNA match to the father's DNA from the trash and the DNA from the BK cheek swab.

 

[jepop]

All MOO

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the prosecution say they did not plan on using the IGG/DNA during the trial?

Igg is an investigative process and tool which doesn't speak to his guilt or innocence. P has no plans to use at trial.

They most certainly are planning to use the sheathe DNA, BK's swabs etc which will be instrumental in establishing guilt. BK's DNA on sheathe and the IGg process not the same.

Source: Motion for protective order IGG on Idaho Court's COI page. Around June/ July 2023.

 

[CKS]

Igg is an investigative process and tool which doesn't speak to his guilt or innocence. P has no plans to use at trial.

They most certainly are planning to use the sheathe DNA, BK's swabs etc which will be instrumental in establishing guilt. BK's DNA on sheathe and the IGg process not the same.

Source: Motion for protective order IGG on Idaho Court's COI page. Around June/ July 2023.

Thanks!

 

[Justice101]

Igg is an investigative process and tool which doesn't speak to his guilt or innocence. P has no plans to use at trial.

They most certainly are planning to use the sheathe DNA, BK's swabs etc which will be instrumental in establishing guilt. BK's DNA on sheathe and the IGg process not the same.

Source: Motion for protective order IGG on Idaho Court's COI page. Around June/ July 2023.

Interesting.

So if the Prosecution doesn't bring up how they decided to test BKs DNA then the defense can't argue the IGG?

is that how it works?

 

[jepop]

the alibi will be to the to the tune of the defense cross examine the cell tower witness for example:

Defense: "Can you exclude the possibility that my client was up on a ridge watching stars instead of on a road because your data only shows an arc when his cell phone was?"

Lame, lame lame. Will not fly with the jury.

My guess is the cell phone data will come early or last in the presentation. probably first to show the jury the timeline.

Something like that! But an incomprehensible 'alibi' if phone was off. Sy Ray makes no sense to me unless he has BK cell phone data for crime time. Given the P don't have it per PCA, how does Sy Ray I wonder. He doesn't. This is jmo but it's a fair conjecture moo that BK switched phone off. We'll find out soon enough!

If some grainy footage of a white car can be got for between 3.30 and 4.20am 13th Dec 2022 at some place not King Road, that might be used, though not sure re rules of evidence. Would have to be indistinct enough to make it unidentifiable, ie might/might not be an Elantra, impossible to tell. I really believe that is what the D has been looking for all this time. Jmo

In the meantime, I think the P are going to show a jury how SVI leaving King Road at 4.20am is logically the same elantra that, with BK's phone and BK himself, is near BLaine 20 mins south of crime scene at 4.50am. And we know from there it is BK, his Elantra and his phone pinging all the way back to Pullman via back roads, ready to be captured multiple times on street/business cameras once he arrives. Moo

 

[jepop]

Interesting.

So if the Prosecution doesn't bring up how they decided to test BKs DNA then the defense can't argue the IGG?

is that how it works?

Not sure, but Igg is just a method to search for a suspect. The defense is trying to use the constitutional argument re Igg to get BK's swabs chucked and I think the MTS and franks cover the sheathe DNA tests, BK's dad DNA test etc? It's all sealed.

State never included igg outcome for any warrants and certainly igg has no connection to the recovery of the sheathe DNA sample itself and the profile developed. Defense is trying to argue State would never identified BK without igg process, so it was illegal to arrest him, swab him and test to get the direct match.

The igg saga is being argued now, not at trial, it has nothing to do with proving BK's guilt come trial. At least that's how I understand it, but other readers here ( @wendy44) have a much better grip on this than me.

 

[PinkParis2052]

All MOO

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the prosecution say they did not plan on using the IGG/DNA during the trial?

True but this was in the footnotes of the state's motion for a protective order filed by the state in June 2023 and the state said something about filing a motion of limine about the IGG too, But I could be wrong about that part.

and the Court did ruled that the defense should get discovery of the IGG information.
ORDER ADDRESSING IGG DNA AND ORDER FOR IN CAMERA REVIEW

 

[schooling]

True but this was in the footnotes of the state's motion for a protective order filed by the state in June 2023 and the state said something about filing a motion of limine about the IGG too, But I could be wrong about that part.
View attachment 557400
and the Court did ruled that the defense should get discovery of the IGG information.
ORDER ADDRESSING IGG DNA AND ORDER FOR IN CAMERA REVIEW

If somehow the IGG information made its way into trial. It would just be another item in the long list of astronomically improbable coincidences the Defense would have to explain away.

Not that it even matters since the 5 quintillion to 1 DNA match his DNA.

MOO

 

[arielilane]

@kfixler

ICYMI — Prosecutors in the case versus #BryanKohberger disclosed a handful of the two dozen-plus witnesses from a variety of expertise areas who they plan to call in his #Idaho4 murder trial, including detectives and DNA experts. Defense list due Jan. 23.
https://t.co/JJYhVmiNof

https://twitter.com/x/status/1878929850465223123

 

[arielilane]

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger​

Ada County CR01-24-31665 / Latah County CR29-22-2805

Case Summary (Updated 01/13/25)

• 01/07/2025 Stipulated Motion to Seal States Amended Expert Disclosure
• 01/07/2025 Motion to Extend Time to Disclose Defendants Guilt Phase Experts
• 01/07/2025 Objection to Defendants Motion to Compel ICR 16b7 Material and for Sanctions
• 01/07/2025 Stipulated Motion to Seal Exhibit B
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing Defendants Amended Memorandum (Franks Hearing)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing States Objection (Genetic Information)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing States Objection (119 Lamsden)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing States Objection (Amazon)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing States Objection (Google)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing Exhibits to States Objection (Apple)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing Exhibits to States Objection (AT&T)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing Exhibits to States Objection (Pen Trap and Trace)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing Exhibits to States Objection (Mr Kohberger)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing Exhibits to States Objection (Apartment)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing States Supplemental Response to Request for Discovery Regarding Expert Testimony
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing Exhibit to States Objection to Defendants Motion to Compel
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing States Objection and Exhibits (Franks Hearing)
• 01/08/2025 Order Sealing Exhibit A to Defendants Motion to Compel

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

As previously posted on page one of this thread:

In order to prepare for motions hearing scheduled 1/23/2025 :

1. The Defendant shall disclose its witnesses, exhibits and expert opinions (if applicable) to the Court and State by 1/9/2025.
2. The State shall disclose its witnesses, exhibits and expert opinions (if applicable) to the Court and Defense by 1/16/2025.
3. The Defendant shall disclose any rebuttal disclosures to the Court and State by 1/21/2025.

• 01/06/2025 Scheduling Order for ICR 12 Motions

 

[LinasK]

Not sure, but Igg is just a method to search for a suspect. The defense is trying to use the constitutional argument re Igg to get BK's swabs chucked and I think the MTS and franks cover the sheathe DNA tests, BK's dad DNA test etc? It's all sealed.

State never included igg outcome for any warrants and certainly igg has no connection to the recovery of the sheathe DNA sample itself and the profile developed. Defense is trying to argue State would never identified BK without igg process, so it was illegal to arrest him, swab him and test to get the direct match.

The igg saga is being argued now, not at trial, it has nothing to do with proving BK's guilt come trial. At least that's how I understand it, but other readers here ( @wendy44) have a much better grip on this than me.

How exactly was it illegal to use IGG and then go match his DNA with a fresh swab to corroborate? It's done all the time. My cousin's murderer tried a similar tactic and failed.

 

[joe jones]

How exactly was it illegal to use IGG and then go match his DNA with a fresh swab to corroborate? It's done all the time. My cousin's murderer tried a similar tactic and failed.

At least his defence team is thoroughly looking at the evidence and will challenge what they can, if only all defence attorneys would do so, plus it leaves the door open for an appeal should anything change about IGG and how it's used by LE, I expect him to be convicted so his only hope IMO is reversible errors