8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
This was written in Addiction Treatment "Magazine" which appears to be an online promotional vehicle for a for-profit addiction-to-anything company in California. They seem to be able to cure anything. ("Addicted to snapping rubber bands? - give us a call." ) If folks click on the link (which is all that was really needed in the post) you will find that the review contained quite a few subjective comments about the parties involved and the lawsuits that were filed, which track with many of the opinions posted on this site, including my own.

If you don't like my posts, that's one thing, but telling me what to post is something else altogether.

The expert quoted is Dr. Sacks, who is CEO of Promises, a popular California recovery center.
 
Police report - page 10, Item 39: Witness account stating "I intereviewed ____ who stated that at approximately 1:15 pm he was travelling north on the taconic state parkway, just north of the Sprain Brook Parkway when he was cut off by a red minivan travelling north with a female operator... he later saw a picture of Diane Schuler and believes it was her operating this vehicle."

Thank you voxrock for posting/pointing that out to me! Wow and huh. I'm not familiar with the area - would you mind telling me what you think Diane's route consisted of from the time she got off the Tappen Zee bridge until she entered the exit ramp off Pleasantville Rd.? I'd really-really appreciate it. TIA.
 
a comment about Diane like that. It also doesn't make a lot of sense since Dan worked nights and so she would need to be home with the kids. Her in laws seemed to be in frequent contact with her in the evenings as her MIL described how busy she was at night with dinner, baths, reading, then she would work on photo albums etc. and then go to bed late and get up for work in the am. I think if she really was a regular at a bar there would have been alot more stories about that aspect and quotes from the bar owner etc. Plus this friend said Diane went there alone. If she did and knowing how perfect she always wanted to appear I highly doubt she would be telling a "friend" that she drank alone in a bar every night.

She also seemed close to the others in her family and I think Jay is completely sincere in not believing Diane would knowingly drink and drive. The Hances were shocked by her blood alcohol levels. It just seems so unlikely that if she had a longstanding substance abuse problem no one ever noticed and if she was so experienced then why would she mess up so badly that day? If she were able to abuse and hide it from everyone for years why was that day so different? Wouldn't she have messed up on some other occasion and had a fender bender, passed out somewhere, done something inappropriate at some point? But no one has any memory of anything like that. And her autopsy showed no evidence of alcohol abuse. That is not difinitive that she wasn't an alcoholic but it means there is no evidence of it either physical or annecdotal.

I don't blame Dan and Jay for looking for answers that make sense to them. I believe the Diane they knew would not do what she did. If this happened to someone in my life who I believed had no substance abuse problem I'd be mystified too.







There was a comment made earlier questioning why, if Diane was such a drinker, that her friends or drinking partners wouldn't say something. The above article was presented as evidence that they did. In fact, I don't think there is any real evidence that they did. Take a look at the date of this "article" in the NY Post (that should tell you something right there!) written shortly after the tragedy. This was a widely questioned (and I believe debunked) "report" that other media outlets did not pick it up for that reason. It was pretty much considered to be someone who wanted 15 minutes of fame and who probably did not know Mrs. Schuler. I remember some of the back and forth on this. If this was truly someone who "bellied up to the bar" with Diane Schuler, no one else seems to have confirmed it or was aware of it. One would think that if this were true, more than this lone person would have confirmed it...maybe others who frequented the bar or the bartender or other friends. I am more than willing to look at other pieces of evidence that Diane, who did all of the housework, took care of the kids, did all the cooking, volunteered at her kid's school and any number of other things, routinely stopped off at a bar on her way home. It exhausts me just thinking about it. As always, I am ready and willing to examine other evidence that friends of Diane confirmed that she was a regular drinker, but this particular piece of "evidence" is not enough.
 
a comment about Diane like that. It also doesn't make a lot of sense since Dan worked nights and so she would need to be home with the kids. Her in laws seemed to be in frequent contact with her in the evenings as her MIL described how busy she was at night with dinner, baths, reading, then she would work on photo albums etc. and then go to bed late and get up for work in the am.

Danny working nights is actually a perfect situation for a closet drinker, which Diane may have been. Or they may have both been heavy drinkers, who knows. But we know for a fact that she smoked weed regularly at night when the kids went to bed. (Which Danny also denied until pressed in the documentary.) Is it much of a stretch that she also drank alcohol regularly?

The bottom line is there was weed and a ton of alcohol in her stomach, and a big bottle of vodka within her reach in a car full of kids. I'd really like to know whether she just was a drinker who got carried away or it was a suicide mission, but ultimately it doesn't matter.
 
I don't think that's "more likely" at all. That would mean she consciously realized she was going the wrong way on one of those highways and then entered the Taconic headed the wrong way -- and ignored all the people waving at her at the exit ramp and ignored all the cars zooming toward her for 1.7 miles.

We'll probably never know with anything approximating certainty, but my money is on her either being in blackout-drunk mode or a suicide mission. Three of the witnesses in the documentary, among the last to actually see her, strongly sensed the latter.

I understand your feeling, but no matter what route she took, she started going North of where she was supposed to be and turned around. I think she realized she was on the wrong road...you don't have to be cold sober to have something like that dawn on you especially if you take the same route every weekend. Also, If she was on a suicide mission, why did she need to go North? She could have taken care of that right on the route - 87 - a major highway - that she was on. I think you are correct about the "blackout-drunk" mode, but it is difficult to buy into the suicide theory, although I am doing more thinking about that and it is a position I once totally rejected. You are REALLY right about our never knowing which is frustrating as heck. Wouldn't you like to know what really happened to her?

As I read some of the posts, I can sense easily who is in what "camp" and I wonder how much of the argument is based on our (and I include myself in this) "feelings" rather than our intellect. Once we take a position, it is hard to break loose from it.
 
I understand your feeling, but no matter what route she took, she started going North of where she was supposed to be and turned around. I think she realized she was on the wrong road...you don't have to be cold sober to have something like that dawn on you especially if you take the same route every weekend. Also, If she was on a suicide mission, why did she need to go North? She could have taken care of that right on the route - 87 - a major highway - that she was on. I think you are correct about the "blackout-drunk" mode, but it is difficult to buy into the suicide theory, although I am doing more thinking about that and it is a position I once totally rejected. You are REALLY right about our never knowing which is frustrating as heck. Wouldn't you like to know what really happened to her?

As I read some of the posts, I can sense easily who is in what "camp" and I wonder how much of the argument is based on our (and I include myself in this) "feelings" rather than our intellect. Once we take a position, it is hard to break loose from it.

Again, though, that has her making a conscious, rational decision moments before doing something wildly irrational, ignoring all of the people trying to wave her off and all the cars coming right at her -- unless she blacked out the precise moment she turned onto the Taconic.

I honestly don't believe I'm in a particular "camp." I didn't completely reject the toxicology "mystery" upon first viewing of the documentary. But after reading the police report and everything else I could get my hands on, I moved to 100% believing she drank and smoked on purpose and got carried away and then to a murder/suicide being the most plausible scenario. Not one I can completely explain or wrap my head around as a human being, but the most plausible.
 
Again, though, that has her making a conscious, rational decision moments before doing something wildly irrational, ignoring all of the people trying to wave her off and all the cars coming right at her -- unless she blacked out the precise moment she turned onto the Taconic.

I honestly don't believe I'm in a particular "camp." I didn't completely reject the toxicology "mystery" upon first viewing of the documentary. But after reading the police report and everything else I could get my hands on, I moved to 100% believing she drank and smoked on purpose and got carried away and then to a murder/suicide being the most plausible scenario. Not one I can completely explain or wrap my head around as a human being, but the most plausible.

When I used the term "camp", it was only to describe the distinction between those who believe Diane did what she did purposfully and those who do not. There seems to be a clear delineation and perhaps that is what I should have said.

I see your point rpd113, but the fact is that she was conscious. She was driving a large, heavy vehicle so there had to be a degree of awareness, although I think she was quickly descending into delirium. If you become delirious, it just doesn't happen in a split second. I think she was getting worse and worse as she made her way to the Taconic. If you look at some of the routes North, when she got off - say - 9A (I'm sticking to that theory), she had to travel a bit to get to the Taconic. When she finally got there she was delirious enough that she took the exit instead of the entrance. That particular exit, which I have used many times, if used as an entrance as she did, does not give one a clear view of the direction that cars are moving because it is a rather large curve. That, of course, doesn't tell you why she didn't react to people on the exit or to those she passed on the main highway, but perhaps she was pretty far gone by that time. It is really possible that it wasn't any more complicated than that. Also, I wonder if anyone has considered that she might have been using a GPS system? Although they traveled regularly from the camp to home, she might have been convinced to try another route. You don't have to be totally conscious to get tired of hearing someone bellow "Make a safe U-turn when possible". A GPS system might have made her - even momentarily - conscious of the fact she was going North.

Finally, I would honestly be interested in your opinion as to why she would travel so far out of her way if she was planning suicide. Why bother to go North at all when she already was on a busy highway with plenty of turn around areas so she could speed into oncoming traffic? The Taconic is no more "suicide friendly" than 87 or 287. In fact, when you get to the White Plains area 287 divides so that there is a huge area between the E and W-bound lanes and a number of areas when one can easily turn around and head toward oncoming traffic if that is what you want to do. It just doesn't make sense to me that - if she were bent on destruction - she would go North.

Although I don't agree with the overall murder/suicide theory, I enjoy reading and considering your perspective.
 
RSorensen, I appreciate your thoughtful post and insights and defer to you and VoxRock on the intricacies of the Taconic and the other highways along Diane's route.

My opinion is based on:

--Danny's absurd obfuscation, which makes me think he's hiding something important

--how Diane was reportedly fine before speaking to Jackie and then driving erratically a little later and very drunk soon after that

--Diane leaving her phone behind and going the opposite way of what Warren expected

--The witness saying he/she saw Diane driving the correct way on the Taconic shortly before the crash

--The witnesses saying they read her actions and expression on the Taconic as an act of suicide/murder

--The one witness who said she had a look of terror (invalidating the black-out drunk theory, even as it possibly invalidates suicide/murder to a lesser extent)

--The fact that by all accounts Diane was responsible and loving which makes whatever happened a complete shock (to me, someone in a rage, or someone who just simply cracked, rather than someone who just got a little carried away with booze and got really unlucky).

There are a lot of holes in the theory, though, some of which you raise above. I would not bet a great sum of money on the theory being true; it's just that if I had to bet, this would be it.
 
but it does seem odd that an experienced drinker would have fooled so many people for so long only to lose it so spectacularly on this one day. My point was only that the bar story made no sense. Yes, her and Danny worked opposite and either could have hidden things from the other. However, I believe Diane was in constant touch with family, friends, etc and again, there is no recollection by Jay, the Hances that Diane had any kind of problem. (I don't consider smoking her pot at night after the kids go to bed a problem).

I'm just mystified and not completely sure it's either a suicide mission or an experienced drunk that got carried away. Obviously I know no more than anyone else. I started out believing she was just a drunk who messed up and that it was a simple story. I'm just not sure and I doubt we'll ever know who she really was and what really happened.


Danny working nights is actually a perfect situation for a closet drinker, which Diane may have been. Or they may have both been heavy drinkers, who knows. But we know for a fact that she smoked weed regularly at night when the kids went to bed. (Which Danny also denied until pressed in the documentary.) Is it much of a stretch that she also drank alcohol regularly?

The bottom line is there was weed and a ton of alcohol in her stomach, and a big bottle of vodka within her reach in a car full of kids. I'd really like to know whether she just was a drinker who got carried away or it was a suicide mission, but ultimately it doesn't matter.
 
Twinkiesmom...thanks for the clarification about the 2nd cup being coffee, not OJ...that convinces me that she was a seasoned drinker...No possible way you could not taste 10 oz of vodka in a large orange juice...I would venture to say a light drinker would possibly gag on that ratio of vodka to OJ. Even if it was a 32 oz cup (do they sell OJ's that large?) that's almost a 3/1 ratio. Nope...not for a non drinker. IMO...

I agree....and if you had a raging toothache, I am pretty sure the last thing you would want to drink is HOT COFFEE.

IMHO.
 
OK, I am extremely familiar with the roads in this area. She followed her correct route fine until the Tappan Zee Bridge, she negotiated the toll booth without crashing, she managed to pull over across many lanes of Sunday traffic to the side just past the bridge fine. She made a phone call to her brother during which something big happened. She referred to him as Danny, and probably had a very emotional call releasing a lot of anger at Danny for whatever he had done to her. Her brother told her not to move, to stay put, he was coming to get her. During the call, her brother said she told him she was on Southern State Parkway, miles away on Long Island. She lied outright about this when he asked where she was. There are no tolls on the Southern State and she had paid a toll 100 feet back. She had just gone over a 2 mile bridge hundreds of feet above the Hudson River, a far cry from Southern State parkway. He had her hand the phone to one of his kids who described the signs as near the Tappan Zee Bridge, so he knew she was lying. He probably told her he could track her cell phone (which is exactly what he tried to do as shown on those phone call tapes with the police). As soon as she realized her brother was coming for her, and that they knew where she was she got out of the car and left the phone on the wall so he couldn't track her and drove away. She should have followed 87 south, which many lanes of the road do, it is the main road. Instead, she made a concious effort to avoid this route and passed it by 1/2 mile and took an exit for Saw Mill North. It is a big left turn over a narrow bridge, extremely obvious to know what you are doing. You cannot go south there, it only puts you on the Saw Mill north. She took that and was reported at 1:15 going north cutting some guy off (Page 10, item 39 of the police report). She then got off the road, made a u-turn and got back on in the wrong direction. I am convinced she did this, because any other route up to Briarcliff Manor (which is where she got on, not Pleasantville Road) would have taken a lot longer on a Sunday afternoon, there is so much traffic and turns and its all 35 mph towns with lights on every corner, she never would have made that trip in less than 1/2 hour. This part of the trip clearly shows her concious decisions of what she was doing. She lied about her location, left the phone so they couldn't track her, passed her exit and got on a road going north, completely in the opposite direction her brother would look for her.

I do believe it was murder/suicide and I do believe she made the final decison during that phone call. Everything she did following that was deceptive and clearly thought out. She probably had it out on the phone with her brother, thinking he was Danny, the man who wronged her and abandonded her with those kids he never wanted. Maybe her brother got through to her and she figured out it who she was really talking to and he pushed her even more.

I think she was a highly disturbed person on the edge and it finally broke that day. She must have been in some state that whole drive, angry and hurt and feeling wronged. Finally, events transpired in that last 1/2 hour that sent her over the edge. She never hit a tree, or went off the road, or sideswiped another car. She was in full control until she went around that bend in the road and it was ended for her.
 
My comments are in red (no meaning behind that) below:

My opinion is based on:

--Danny's absurd obfuscation, which makes me think he's hiding something important I agree with you on this.

--how Diane was reportedly fine before speaking to Jackie and then driving erratically a little later and very drunk soon after that

--Diane leaving her phone behind and going the opposite way of what Warren expected There is a pull over area at either the beginning or end of Tappan Zee bridge. I assume she stopped there and spoke on the phone. It was left laying there and that could easily have been a mistake on her part. It wasn't thrown on the side of the road. It was sitting on a railing area.

--The witness saying he/she saw Diane driving the correct way on the Taconic shortly before the crash Sorry, this is just one person who saw a red car. He could have seen any number of people with dark hair driving a red car (like me for instance) or he could just be looking to be a part of a big story which happens very often.The police continue to say that there is no proof of how she traveled North.

--The witnesses saying they read her actions and expression on the Taconic as an act of suicide/murder this to me is completely nuts. As I mentioned earlier, the people who said they could read her expressions or actions were going in the opposite direction at at least 60 and she was passing them at about 70. Can you honestly say you think that they could read the expression of someone in the split second this took. I can't even see into most cars going 30 when I am standing still.

--The one witness who said she had a look of terror (invalidating the black-out drunk theory, even as it possibly invalidates suicide/murder to a lesser extent) See above.

--The fact that by all accounts Diane was responsible and loving which makes whatever happened a complete shock (to me, someone in a rage, or someone who just simply cracked, rather than someone who just got a little carried away with booze and got really unlucky).

There are a lot of holes in the theory, though, some of which you raise above. I would not bet a great sum of money on the theory being true; it's just that if I had to bet, this would be it.

Oh nuts, I was hoping to propose a little wager!

Your posts are great and I hope to continue disabusing you of your impressions (unless you disabuse me first).
 
Finally, events transpired in that last 1/2 hour that sent her over the edge. She never hit a tree, or went off the road, or sideswiped another car. She was in full control until she went around that bend in the road and it was ended for her.

That's a great point.
 
Oh nuts, I was hoping to propose a little wager!

Your posts are great and I hope to continue disabusing you of your impressions (unless you disabuse me first).

Likewise, and you've raised more valid holes in the theory.

I'm fascinated by this case and wish we could find out more.
 
I'm really not completely sure which side of the fence I'm on but reading these posts is like watching a great tennis match - IMO, regardless of what anyone thinks happened, everyone, on all sides, has made some excellent points!
JMO
 
OK, I am extremely familiar with the roads in this area.

I am convinced she did this, because any other route up to Briarcliff Manor (which is where she got on, not Pleasantville Road) would have taken a lot longer on a Sunday afternoon, there is so much traffic and turns and its all 35 mph towns with lights on every corner, she never would have made that trip in less than 1/2 hour. This part of the trip clearly shows her conscious decisions of what she was doing. She lied about her location, left the phone so they couldn't track her, passed her exit and got on a road going north, completely in the opposite direction her brother would look for her.

You very well might be very familiar with the roads in that area, but not familiar enough to know that the exit that takes you to Briarcliff Manor IS the Pleasantville Road exit and on many maps is labeled as such. Check out the New York Times article "Anatomy of a Tragic Accident" - it includes a map. Anyhow.....

Consider this: She didn't lie because she was out of it. She might not have known where she was because delirium was setting in. She could have forgotten the phone in the state she was in - as I mentioned elsewhere, she didn't throw it away, it was sitting on a ledge.

All of what you say could be true, but for someone to get angry enough at (supposedly) her husband who she probably found out was cheating and then decide to kill herself, her child, and six others is a bit "out there". People act based on their experiences and her experiences were not so terrible that this would be something any mental health professional would think she would do. In fact, at least two psychiatrists who examined this case, including a forensic psychiatrist, have reported that they do not believe in the suicide theory. It just doesn't fit.

But, who really knows. :fence:
 
OK, I am extremely familiar with the roads in this area. She followed her correct route fine until the Tappan Zee Bridge, she negotiated the toll booth without crashing, she managed to pull over across many lanes of Sunday traffic to the side just past the bridge fine.

Voxrock,
How far is Tappan Zee Bridge from the Rampopo rest area? She was pulled over there for some time and vomited...likely she also consumed more alcohol at that point as we know she had both hands on the wheel during her final drive and she had plenty of alcohol in her stomach contents.

I agree with you that we cannot rule out murder/suicide, but the other possibility is her BAC reached a particular threshold in which she had a blackout (physically conscious but with no frontal lobe activity). Her appearing to be staring straight ahead with her hands at the 10 and 2 position do not rule out a blackout. Nor does her ignoring the screaming kids in the back and the other drivers on the road rule out a blackout.

If she was an alcoholic, it would explain her sudden shift from expert driving through the toll lanes (high tolerance) and blackout. There was a commenter on another website that mentioned the inability to predict the line between their high tolerance and blackout.

I do agree the leaving of the cell phone behind is significant but am not sure whether she was evading her brother to seek death or to hide her intoxication.
 
You very well might be very familiar with the roads in that area, but not familiar enough to know that the exit that takes you to Briarcliff Manor IS the Pleasantville Road exit and on many maps is labeled as such. Check out the New York Times article "Anatomy of a Tragic Accident" - it includes a map. Anyhow.....
:

Yup, you are right, I guess I am thinking of the sign on the Taconic when you are heading south that says Briarcliff Manor.
 
Yup, you are right, I guess I am thinking of the sign on the Taconic when you are heading south that says Briarcliff Manor.

I thought that might have been the case. I know I find it difficult some times to remember that although she was going South, no one else around her was! Thanks for acknowledging I was right. Don't wanna declare me right about everything else, do ya? :seeya:
 
I thought that might have been the case. I know I find it difficult some times to remember that although she was going South, no one else around her was! Thanks for acknowledging I was right. Don't wanna declare me right about everything else, do ya? :seeya:


I'll admit I'm wrong on facts, no problem... but I'll never give in on my :crazy: theory!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
157
Guests online
766
Total visitors
923

Forum statistics

Threads
626,056
Messages
18,519,951
Members
240,927
Latest member
TrixMedia
Back
Top