A Closer Look at John Fernie

[JMO8778]

Morning JMO - I can't see a friend getting involved with a cover-up unless the friend was involved in the accident/death or, possibly, owed John a tremendously big favor of the same proportion. I just can't see more people getting involved. It opens up too many possibilities for someone to spill the beans.

hey,good to see you !
I agree,I can only figure that while Fernie wasn't involved in the cover up,he was possibly called b/f 911,so JR could be sure he had at least one good friend as a witness,in case LE found JB's body.any thoughts?

Maybe John moved the note to the patio door to read it as Patsy called 911? Or maybe it was placed there originally as someone already said.

could be,I don't think it was ever on the stairs.in either scenario,JR involved or not at that point,it seems there would be no need for it to be.Patsy would have just handed it to him,I would think.(but then no prints were found on the note-odd!).I think they just put it where they wanted LE to find it,and on the floor since they knew it had no prints on it.

 

[Littledeer]

If they wanted LE to find it on the floor, why only the first page of the RN? Where were the other 2 pages?

I was thinking that maybe PR or JR put it on the kitchen counter near the patio door and JR had gone outside (maybe to put the bat in place?) and if there was wind blowing at that time, maybe the one page of the RN fluttered down to the floor?

Just a thought.

 

[BOESP]

hey,good to see you !
I agree,I can only figure that while Fernie wasn't involved in the cover up,he was possibly called b/f 911,so JR could be sure he had at least one good friend as a witness,in case LE found JB's body.any thoughts?

Maybe the scene suggests John Ramsey called in friends to serve as witnesses and buffers.

could be,I don't think it was ever on the stairs.in either scenario,JR involved or not at that point,it seems there would be no need for it to be.Patsy would have just handed it to him,I would think.(but then no prints were found on the note-odd!).I think they just put it where they wanted LE to find it,and on the floor since they knew it had no prints on it.

Patsy distinctly said she found the three pages on a lower rung of the spiral staircase. She said she stepped over them then skimmed the note and yelled for John without touching the note. Later, she said John had spread the note across the floor to read it. Maybe he took the note to the patio door that John Fernie mentions near the telephone Patsy used to call 911. Maybe John Ramsey left the note at the patio door on the floor after reading it? :waitasec:

I'm not sure what to make of the note moving from the spiral staircase at one end of the hall all the way to the other end except to say the impression I got was John read the note spread out on the floor near the staircase, not the patio door.

It would depend on the angle, light, and position of the note as to whether John Fernie could read it or not. There's always a chance, too, that the statement attributed to Fernie was not correct as published.

 

[Littledeer]

PR did say that JR "spread the note which consisted of 3 pages on the floor (right there means he touched them). (So the no fingerprints suggests either he wore gloves, or used something to move them from one area to another.)

Then we have Fernie saying he could read "one" page of the note, I don't think it has ever been said which "one" page he could read......but were there three pages on the floor in front of the patio door or just one??? Has this ever been clarified anywhere????

 

[Toltec]

According to Patsy Ramsey, she waits for the Police while John is getting dressed. She is standing just outside the front door when Officer French arrives. She tells Officer French there is a note and that they were trying to get the money together.

No mention of John Fernie being there. Officer French arrived first, then John Fernie. I recall the Fernies believing that John must have suffered a heart-attack and John Fernie ran out of the home asap.

 

[DeeDee249]

PR did say that JR "spread the note which consisted of 3 pages on the floor (right there means he touched them). (So the no fingerprints suggests either he wore gloves, or used something to move them from one area to another.)

Then we have Fernie saying he could read "one" page of the note, I don't think it has ever been said which "one" page he could read......but were there three pages on the floor in front of the patio door or just one??? Has this ever been clarified anywhere????

There is a photo on a site (forgive me, I don't recall which one) that shows all three pages through the glass door.

 

[RiverRat]

There is a photo on a site (forgive me, I don't recall which one) that shows all three pages through the glass door.

Not ringing a bell......please let us know if you come across it again!

 

[Littledeer]

DeeDee:

I would also like to see this photo. TIA.

 

[DeeDee249]

I'll try.

 

[elannia]

PMPT pb, pg 44:

"At 6:00 A.M. the telephone awakened Cliff Gaston. It was Patsy Ramsey. Priscilla took the call, and within minutes the White's were dressed and on their way to the Ramsey's house. When they arrived, the police and John Fernie were already there."

By car the Whites live 2 minutes away from the Ramseys.

By car the Fernies live 23 minutes away from the Ramseys.

Patsy had called 911 at 5:52 A.M. She then immediately called the Fernies and the Whites in that order.

John Fernie, a developer, lives at the Shanahan Ridge development on Table Mesa, below the foothills. How did John Fernie, after taking the call from Patsy, manage to get dressed, drive to the Ramsey house, and get there before Fleet White?

Was John Fernie already on the road when Patsy called him? Had he taken the call by cell phone? And if so, WHY was he on the road so early in the morning on the day after Christmas. Had he already been to the Ramsey house earlier that morning -- perhaps to retrieve Little Luke from the disaster unfolding at the Ramseys house and take him home, and was on his way back to the Ramsey's when the call from Patsy came in notifying him she had called the cops and it was okay for him to return? Or was he already on the road for some other reason?

(Those missing cell phone records for the month of December would have likely told one helluva interesting story.)

JMO

This has always confused me. How did JF get there so soon and why(maybe he said he always used that door?) did he go through the patio door instead of the front. Then he supposedly read the RN. And didnt he get upset (read this but cant remember where.. PMPT?) about the no footprints in the snow?
May not mean anything but I was just wondering new thoughts on this

 

[DeeDee249]

This has always confused me. How did JF get there so soon and why(maybe he said he always used that door?) did he go through the patio door instead of the front. Then he supposedly read the RN. And didnt he get upset (read this but cant remember where.. PMPT?) about the no footprints in the snow?
May not mean anything but I was just wondering new thoughts on this

I have never believed his version of events. Just think of the illegal and immoral things his wife had done (impersonating a police officer in emails for one). First of all, I doubt the note could be read from outside that door. The writing wasn't that large. Also, if the R timeline is to be believed, both Patsy & JR handled that note. When Officer French got there, they handed the note to him. I doubt it was placed back on the stairs in the same place it was found. Officer French got there before any of the R's friends. Everyone else came in the front door- why would he creep around to the side? Many people believe some of the friends were there in the middle of the night, after the murder, and went away briefly so police could be called, then returned. One thing I have to note is that I have never heard Officer French claim he heard the parents calling their friends, so I assume they called the right after they called 911. And it seems they were all dressed and ready to come over immediately. Odd, no?

 

[elannia]

I have never believed his version of events. Just think of the illegal and immoral things his wife had done (impersonating a police officer in emails for one). First of all, I doubt the note could be read from outside that door. The writing wasn't that large. Also, if the R timeline is to be believed, both Patsy & JR handled that note. When Officer French got there, they handed the note to him. I doubt it was placed back on the stairs in the same place it was found. Officer French got there before any of the R's friends. Everyone else came in the front door- why would he creep around to the side? Many people believe some of the friends were there in the middle of the night, after the murder, and went away briefly so police could be called, then returned. One thing I have to note is that I have never heard Officer French claim he heard the parents calling their friends, so I assume they called the right after they called 911. And it seems they were all dressed and ready to come over immediately. Odd, no?

Thats what I think too. Supposedly the Fernies lived 23 minutes away and they arrives before FW. So imo I believe people were there at "3"in the morning(JR even let this slip and no one caught it) and like you said they went home and and waited around for the call.

 

[midwest mama]

Just rechecked the timeline according to Steve Thomas' book, pgs 17-21:
Patsy called police at 5:52. French arrived just after 6 am. Patsy and John led French to the ransom note, which was laying spread out on the kitchen floor.

Just after calling police, Patsy called the Whites and the Fernies. Officer Riechenbach was the second to arrive, also seeing the RN on the floor. French picked up the RN and placed it back on the stairs where PR said she found it, so it could be photographed later by a police photographer.

By 6:30 am the Whites and the Fernies had arrived.

Also, I believe it was Susan Stine, not B. Fernie, who impersonated a police officer in emails. Hard to keep all this stuff straight this many years later, even with books to check references. Not easy to even remember which book has which account of the story.

IIRC, Barbara Fernie arrived ahead of her husband in a separate vehicle. The fact that John Fernie came through the alley and claims to have seen the RN on the floor, even reading it through the door, always seemed very strange. If we go by Steve Thomas' account, the 2 police officers were there ahead of the friends arriving and they would have had to leave the RN on the floor for a while in order to account for Fernie arriving after them and being able to read it through the door glass while it lay on the floor.

 

[UKGuy]

Just rechecked the timeline according to Steve Thomas' book, pgs 17-21:
Patsy called police at 5:52. French arrived just after 6 am. Patsy and John led French to the ransom note, which was laying spread out on the kitchen floor.

Just after calling police, Patsy called the Whites and the Fernies. Officer Riechenbach was the second to arrive, also seeing the RN on the floor. French picked up the RN and placed it back on the stairs where PR said she found it, so it could be photographed later by a police photographer.

By 6:30 am the Whites and the Fernies had arrived.

Also, I believe it was Susan Stine, not B. Fernie, who impersonated a police officer in emails. Hard to keep all this stuff straight this many years later, even with books to check references. Not easy to even remember which book has which account of the story.

IIRC, Barbara Fernie arrived ahead of her husband in a separate vehicle. The fact that John Fernie came through the alley and claims to have seen the RN on the floor, even reading it through the door, always seemed very strange. If we go by Steve Thomas' account, the 2 police officers were there ahead of the friends arriving and they would have had to leave the RN on the floor for a while in order to account for Fernie arriving after them and being able to read it through the door glass while it lay on the floor.

midwest mama,
Yes the R's account was always suspect since it was only questionable by them selve. I reckon it is better to view the whole affair as a matter of staging.

If someone gave me the budget and the project to do a JonBenet movie this is how would proceed. I would reflect what happened as a series of staged events, so the audience might relate to what occured as theatre rather than criminal drama.

 

[DeDee]

The sun did not rise until 7:21 AM MST. It was dark outside when John Fernie arrived.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

See this post # 21 by Mama2JML on the John Fernie thread as she included a picture of the door and the floor plan of the first floor.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?226095-John-Fernie&p=9967602#post9967602

This post # 15 by gramcracker, on the same thread, includes information "from James Kolar's Foreign Faction/kindle location 4194"

Mrs Fernie shared one additional tidbit of information with investigators that had been bothering her. She indicated that, late in the summer or early fall of 1996, she had observed damages to the latch area of an exterior screen door located on the rear south side of the Ramsey home. Mrs Fernie was concerned that perhaps a burglary attempt had been made to the home, and shared this information with Patsy.

They inspected the door and determined that the interior door exhibited no damages whatsoever. Patsy expressed no concern about the damaged screen door and suggested that perhaps John was responsible for the marks. He reportedly was always forgetting his keys and had broken into the house on other occasions.

Mrs Fernie indicated that she had seen a photograph of this same screen door displayed in an advertisement running in one of the Denver newspapers shortly after the murder. The advertisement, placed by Ramsey attorneys and taking up at least half of the page of the newspaper, purported that this may have been a possible point of entry used by the kidnapper of JonBenet.

This did not sit well with Mrs Fernie, because Patsy was fully aware that these damages had been inflicted upon the screen door weeks or months prior to the murder of JonBenet. The use of this particular photograph seemed to be an attempt to mislead the public about the evidence associated with the crime and the Fernies indicated that they severed their contact with the family following their observation of that advertisement.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?226095-John-Fernie&p=9966729#post9966729

It is OMO that there is no way JF could read the RN while standing outside looking in.

It is only my opinion that it was the R's friends who attempted to distance themselves from the murder. Whether or not the friends intended to have an intervention on the "mega JonBenét thing"; it never took place. However, the assertion does place the friends in a warm light that their intentions were good enough to make them appear innocent of any involvement.


moo omho and all that jazz

 

[comingforyou]

Seeker,

The 911 call from Patsy (there was only one 911 call) was placed at 5:52 A.M. She called the Whites at 6:00 A.M. AFTER calling the Fernies. So the 911 call, and the call to the Fernies, and the call to the Whites, all took place within that 8-minute time span.

The question is : How did John Fernie beat Fleet White to the Ramsey's house when the Whites lived just two minutes away and the Fernies lived 23 minutes away?

JMO

The Whites also had people staying with them. Bill Cox and his wife and someone else i think Gratson(?) they also had 2 children. If they all got up and were all concerned asking questions then that would take time. I would take a guess and saying both had been "drinking" that night at their party so the idea that they were fully alert and running around may not have been the case. Remembering at that stage JonBenet was "just" missing and Fleet had known his own daughter had hidden once in their house only to be found alive and well in their basement.

 

[BoldBear]

This timeline drives me crazy. Officer French had moved the ransom note to the spiral staircase. John Fernie would have arrived at the back door before the note was moved. That puts John, Patsy and officer French talking somewhere out of sight. This might be when they took officer French upstairs to see Jonbenet's room. There's clearly frost/snow on the brick outside so John Fernie's footprints would be noted by investigators. The brick path does not wrap around the house to connect to the brick path leading to the entry of the house. John Fernie's footprints would have been on the lawn. The only tracks noted on the lawn were from a bicycle. As Charlie Brown would say, "Aaugh!"

Now, if you wonder how obvious tracks would have been to see have a look at the smoking gun footage and the snow/frost on the brick patio.

https://radaronline.com/videos/jon-benet-ramsey-murder-crime-scene-video/

No footprints noted, but investigators would have noticed John Fernie's car in the driveway. No one noted when Barbara Fernie arrived but she showed-up some time after her husband arrived. I'm losing my mind.

 

[Tortoise]

I have wondered if the Fernies were invited specifically so John Fernie would park around the back and create outside disturbance, not only foot prints around the house but tire tracks on the road and back entrance too. The Fernies are the only ones who would be travelling from south if they approached from Baseline, along 15th St, then turned into Cascade to the back entrance.

I don't know why some say it would have taken them over 20 minutes to get there, unless a faster route has been constructed since 1996. Google maps says 3.6 miles, 9 minutes drive with usual traffic.

 

[Ibiz]

Seeker,

The 911 call from Patsy (there was only one 911 call) was placed at 5:52 A.M. She called the Whites at 6:00 A.M. AFTER calling the Fernies. So the 911 call, and the call to the Fernies, and the call to the Whites, all took place within that 8-minute time span.

The question is : How did John Fernie beat Fleet White to the Ramsey's house when the Whites lived just two minutes away and the Fernies lived 23 minutes away?

JMO

Maybe Fernie got dressed faster, and left before Fleet?

 

[Cottonstar]

I have wondered if the Fernies were invited specifically so John Fernie would park around the back and create outside disturbance, not only foot prints around the house but tire tracks on the road and back entrance too. The Fernies are the only ones who would be travelling from south if they approached from Baseline, along 15th St, then turned into Cascade to the back entrance.

I don't know why some say it would have taken them over 20 minutes to get there, unless a faster route has been constructed since 1996. Google maps says 3.6 miles, 9 minutes drive with usual traffic.

Tortoise you’re talking my language!


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