A New Look at Intruder Theories

[Holdontoyourhat]

It's not too much for us. We just refuse to be taken in by such a cheap and obvious attempt at misdirection. Like Gregg McCrary (that's one!) says, "when handed a lie, look the opposite way to find the truth."

As if the business serving the country and fat cats were the only socialist references. Victory! and 'We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction" is yet more socialist dribble. The latter is most awesome socialism, depicting how an individual is nothing more than a member of a group, doing something for the common good of the foreign faction.

That one sentence alone reads like a treatise on socialism.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You want me to name them?

Yes, please name the army of professionals that are currently supporting RDI.

You offered.

 

[BBB167893]

Yes, please name the army of professionals that are currently supporting RDI.

You offered.

That I did, and I'll be happy to. But let's not limit ourselves to currently. Let's go whole hog.

From 1997 to date:

Werner Spitz
Tom Haney
Chet Ubowski
Tom Miller
Larry Ziegler
Gideon Epstein
Mark Fuhrman
Michael Baden
Wendy Murphy
Michael Kane
Roger L. DePue
Robert K. Ressler
Ron Walker
The 20 CASKU agents
Gregg McCrary
Cyril Wecht
John McCann
James Monteleone
David Jones
Robert Kirschner
Ronald Wright
Virginia Rau
Richard Krugman
Holly Smith
Robert Miller
Daniel Hoffman
Richard Baer
Henry Lee

I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones I can list just off the top of my head.

By "currently," I assume you mean the ones that the know-nothing media has been willing to ask since July. In that case:

Michael Kane
Cyril Wecht
Wendy Murphy
Michael Baden

They have made their cases so far. I'm sure you'd get more, if the media would do its job.

 

[DeeDee249]

JBR was both sexually assaulted AND strangled. Don't forget the fatal head bash. These facts and the possibility of her parent(s) being responsible for them are not mutually exclusive.

 

[sandraladeda]

You don't have an army of professionals behind you, that are ready, willing, or able to make RDI work.

The idea of a socialist author is very very strong. In the RN author's own words, a good 'business' would not serve the US, and a good 'JR' would not be a 'fat cat'. This is true of a socialist. A good socialist business in fact would not serve the US, and a good socialist business leader would not be a 'fat cat'. This isn't that hard of a concept, but it may be too much for this crowd.

I am trying to keep track of all the trains of thought you've got going on here. Can you help me out here?

Your perp is a wealthy foreigner who can afford all the great expenses of flying in the SFF dudes to take JBR away from her father.

First of all, wouldn't the perp's wealth make him a "fat cat" too?

Secondly, what draws this wealthy man (who clearly must have everything if he can afford the expense involved here, just so he can settle a score with JR) into a "faction" - what is he so disgruntled about? It sounds as though he and JR would be "birds of a feather", no?

Finally, of all the IDI's I have encountered, I don't know of any who actually believe that a SFF is involved. Does the RST believe it was a SFF? Does Mary Lacy?

 

[Tadpole12]

That I did, and I'll be happy to. But let's not limit ourselves to currently. Let's go whole hog.

From 1997 to date:

Werner Spitz
Tom Haney
Chet Ubowski
Tom Miller
Larry Ziegler
Gideon Epstein
Mark Fuhrman
Michael Baden
Wendy Murphy
Michael Kane
Roger L. DePue
Robert K. Ressler
Ron Walker
The 20 CASKU agents
Gregg McCrary
Cyril Wecht
John McCann
James Monteleone
David Jones
Robert Kirschner
Ronald Wright
Virginia Rau
Richard Krugman
Holly Smith
Robert Miller
Daniel Hoffman
Richard Baer
Henry Lee

I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones I can list just off the top of my head.

By "currently," I assume you mean the ones that the know-nothing media has been willing to ask since July. In that case:

Michael Kane
Cyril Wecht
Wendy Murphy
Michael Baden

They have made their cases so far. I'm sure you'd get more, if the media would do its job.

That's quite a list!

 

[BBB167893]

That's quite a list!

Isn't it, though?

 

[LI_Mom]

I am trying to keep track of all the trains of thought you've got going on here. Can you help me out here?

Your perp is a wealthy foreigner who can afford all the great expenses of flying in the SFF dudes to take JBR away from her father.

First of all, wouldn't the perp's wealth make him a "fat cat" too?

Secondly, what draws this wealthy man (who clearly must have everything if he can afford the expense involved here, just so he can settle a score with JR) into a "faction" - what is he so disgruntled about? It sounds as though he and JR would be "birds of a feather", no?

Finally, of all the IDI's I have encountered, I don't know of any who actually believe that a SFF is involved. Does the RST believe it was a SFF? Does Mary Lacy?

Please don't forget the pineapple theory...

to keep JB hydrated during the long car trip.... they didn't want a thirsty victim on their hands.

 

[JMO8778]

I see you didn't understand what I said.... so I'll repeat it.....




this small foreign faction had a goal..... they did not set out to be child killers.... they were KIDNAPPING a child. Whatever they might have wanted to do AFTERWARDS, is beside the point... the GOAL was to kidnap the victim.

Kidnappers. Bungling idiots. They're much better at tea parties & bondage games, that's painfully obvious.

indeed.it's just plain common sense.Holdon can't get around that,I don't care *how he words it.
just how long would it take 2-3 assailants to bound and gag a small sleeping child? even if she woke up,20-30 seconds tops,at the most.heck,by the time she woke up,she'd already be bound and gagged,and probably already headed out the door.
they'd work quickly and effieciently,tape going *all the way around her head,feet and wrists bound several times with cord better than that flimsy looking thing shown in the pics.the staging...what a joke.

 

[UKGuy]

indeed.it's just plain common sense.Holdon can't get around that,I don't care *how he words it.
just how long would it take 2-3 assailants to bound and gag a small sleeping child? even if she woke up,20-30 seconds tops,at the most.heck,by the time she woke up,she'd already be bound and gagged,and probably already headed out the door.
they'd work quickly and effieciently,tape going *all the way around her head,feet and wrists bound several times with cord better than that flimsy looking thing shown in the pics.the staging...what a joke.

JMO8778,
The biggest joke about the kidnapping theory is that they left the victim behind. With JonBenet removed from the house dead or alive, the parents would have no way of knowing JonBenet's status, consider Madeliene McCann?


.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

By "currently," I assume you mean the ones that the know-nothing media has been willing to ask since July. In that case:

Michael Kane
Cyril Wecht
Wendy Murphy
Michael Baden

They have made their cases so far. I'm sure you'd get more, if the media would do its job.

I'll ask if you have any links to any articles since July?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I am trying to keep track of all the trains of thought you've got going on here. Can you help me out here? Sure.

Your perp is a wealthy foreigner who can afford all the great expenses of flying in the SFF dudes to take JBR away from her father.

First of all, wouldn't the perp's wealth make him a "fat cat" too? There's lots of wealthy socialists. Many of them are real characters. Some of them are brutal killers too. Why they don't hate themselves for being wealthy when their comrades aren't, is a question only they can answer.

Secondly, what draws this wealthy man (who clearly must have everything if he can afford the expense involved here, just so he can settle a score with JR) into a "faction" - what is he so disgruntled about? I think he uses JR's political orientation, a capitalist, as a justification to do what he wants, and that was to take JBR. He says it twice in the note. '...not the country that it serves', and 'you're not the only fat cat'. It sounds as though he and JR would be "birds of a feather", no? They're both rich, if thats what you mean. JR has nothing to do with crimes against children. LE tried to show that he did, but they came up empty handed.

Finally, of all the IDI's I have encountered, I don't know of any who actually believe that a SFF is involved. Does the RST believe it was a SFF? Does Mary Lacy?

. You forgot I'm using the premise that the RN is truthful except the ransom, to see what intruder scenario develops.

IF FFDI, with no local help, then it cost thousands of dollars. Why spend thousands of dollars to risk getting caught in someone elses house, just for 118K, when JR could've afforded more?

Because they really wanted JBR, not money. They already had money.

This is evidenced by the fact that JBR was first sexually assaulted, and then all packed up, ready to be moved to a car. Not 'lovingly wrapped up'. That idea was just ridiculous.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

We are a group of individuals...

...but not the country that it serves.

You're not the only fat cat...

Victory!

SD, if you can't see the socialism in the RN, then its because you've chosen not to. Its there. FBI profiler Clint VanZandt saw it. 20 CASKU agents never mentioned it, did they.

 

[sandraladeda]

I doubt that even makes sense to you, HOTYH.

I think you have chosen a position (R did not DI, therefore IDI) and you are trying to read everything in such a way as to defend R did not DI, IDI.

HOTYH, have you even read any books on this case?

The easiest thing for the perp to do, whatever their motive, would be this - once inside the house, they (one perp or the team of 2 or 3, as you suggest) bind, gag, and haul JBR out of the house. That's it. If there is any need to communicate to JR (about his business practices, "the country they serve" or anything else ) it could be handled by phone call.

"Hi JR, Listen carefully! We are a SFF and we have your daughter!..." etc.

A phone call at 5 AM is better than a RN - there would be no police trace on the phone, and they would be far away. If the perp was sooo rich, and spent sooo much money planning this, then subduing a 6 year old and gettign her out of the house and to a safe hideout would have been nothing. I could do it single handledly!!

Fact: " only about 6% of child murders are committed by strangers, while an overwhelming 54% are committed by family members." (the FBI, quoted in JonBenet:Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, ST)

Also from ST's book -

"I think it was someone with intimate knowledge of my family and how we lived day to day. Why would they leave the ransom note on the back stairway and not the front?" (JAR)

He (JAR) ridiculed the idea of a small foreign faction being involved, was certain the crime had nothing to do with his father's company, and questioned why a ransom note was left at all.

I ask again - did the Rs ever actually think a SFF was involved? or is HOTH the only person on the planet who thinks the SFFDI?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

FFDI is a very strong idea. It might not have support like the RDI lynch mob has, but its easy for me to see the socialism, and the ESL. Its also worth noting that the trail is cold, with no local developments at all, except for 'unknown male DNA', of course. LE is behaving now as if IDI, so might as well consider more options, or should we let this child murderer go?

International kidnappings happen, sad as it is. Or are you the only one on the planet who thinks they don't?

 

[sandraladeda]

I'll ask if you have any links to any articles since July?

It would be disingenuous to think that just because these experts have not "updated the world" on their position vis a vis this case since July, that they therefore have abandoned their position. :bang:

Don't be obtuse.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It would be disingenuous to think that just because these experts have not "updated the world" on their position vis a vis this case since July, that they therefore have abandoned their position. :bang:

Don't be obtuse.

SD was noting that four from his 'army of professionals' have made their case since July. I wanted to read those, if thats OK with you. Next time maybe I should check with you first.

 

[sandraladeda]

FFDI is a very strong idea. It might not have support like the RDI lynch mob has, but its easy for me to see the socialism, and the ESL. Its also worth noting that the trail is cold, with no local developments at all, except for 'unknown male DNA', of course. LE is behaving now as if IDI, so might as well consider more options, or should we let this child murderer go?

International kidnappings happen, sad as it is. Or are you the only one on the planet who thinks they don't?

Yes, but please, show me an example of any foreign KN where the "kid" is not "napped" but rather killed, and a 2 and a half page RN is left behind?

If you look at the RN in the absense of every other fact of the case, then you can consider SFF, sure why not?

I can look at one aspect of the case, sexual abuse, and conclude that pedophiles killed her. But that's not what happened.

HOTYH, put together an explanation of how SFF works, along with the fact that JBR had been previously abused. Wow, that is one unlucky kid! First of all she is victimized by someone close enough to her to abuse her (chronic abuse) and then some SFF comes along and victimizes her in a whole new way (head bash and strangulation) along with, yup, you guessed it, sexual abuse!

You have to look all the facts taken together, HOTYH!

You still haven't accounted for the pineapple.

You still haven't accounted for the change into size 12 panties!
(how in heck did the SFF know where to find the other Wednesday panties? Why oh why oh why would a SFF care if she was wearing Wednesday panties or not?

You still haven't answered why they did not just grab JBR, gag her, tie her, and haul her away, mail a RN, phone a Ransom demand. Easy as pie. Far simpler than hanging in the basement, writing long winded notes, cords, gags, etc.

I'll ask you the question I would love to ask JR - after learning of the chronic sexual abuse, found through forensic examination of JBR's body, what did the Rs do to get to the bottom of who the abuser was?

No need to answer - they did nothing!

I have 3 kids. I can tell you, no stone would go unturned until I figured out who violated my kid. But the Rs? nada!

 

[icedtea4me]

Maybe Patsy was thinking about how she and John were going to throw all of their friends under the BUSS....:crazy:

I take it, based on your response, that you didn't read the definition of buss.


-Tea

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes, but please, show me an example of any foreign KN where the "kid" is not "napped" but rather killed, and a 2 and a half page RN is left behind?

If you look at the RN in the absense of every other fact of the case, then you can consider SFF, sure why not?

I can look at one aspect of the case, sexual abuse, and conclude that pedophiles killed her. But that's not what happened.

HOTYH, put together an explanation of how SFF works, along with the fact that JBR had been previously abused.

I don't have to show you an example of foreign KN, as you cannot show me an example of a filicide with sexual assault and fake kidnap for ransom note.

What you freely state as fact, I don't have to put into a SFF scenario, because its not actual fact. Some of the expert testimony of chronic abuse was incorrectly interpreted to mean 'previously' abused. There was and is no official position that JBR was ever sexually abused prior to the night of the murder. Read Cyril Wecht's quote, where he concluded that she was sexually abused because of injuries she sustained that night, not because he could tell that she was sexually abused on a chronic basis prior to that night. Thats an RDI myth used to sell tabloids, thats all.