Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

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  • #261
Woohoo, I knew things were gonna get hairy in this case. LOL
What does everyone think the Defendants latest motion is all about? What was the exculpatory evidence they may be referring to?
 
  • #262
  • #263
Hopefully they know WHO in that area owns/owned a 1965 Comet at the time of these murders. IMO there shouldn't be many to track. ;)
Here's what gets me about BB's description of a light colored '65 Comet. She said it was one like her father used to own. To me, something familiar, maybe sentimental, might jump out and be memorable to somebody more than just something someone drove by without taking much notice.

The fact that we have at least two witnesses who described a dark car parked oddly at the CPS lot, a Smart car or a purple PT cruiser, that makes me believe a dark colored, smaller hatchback type car was parked there. Even BB described a car being parked there, in the same manner, but the PCA didn't include BB's description of that car. So, here's my question. Did she see a car backed in near the CPS lot AND a '65 Comet? Were there maybe two cars in the area?

GH had an interview with a guy back in 2021. He was describing an older model car parked along the road by the CPS building. He didn't see the car backed into the lot, but he said police had told him about it, so the guy doesn't seem to be full of crap. He was working and had a log of the time/dates he was there, too. Is it possible the '65 Comet was this older model car parked along the road? Like you said, @Caylee Advocate, they likely could track down the owner of a car like that, if they were able to determine the exact make/model. I'm just very curious about this.

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  • #264
Woohoo, I knew things were gonna get hairy in this case. LOL
What does everyone think the Defendants latest motion is all about? What was the exculpatory evidence they may be referring to?
Oh, I can see where that's going right now.

JG: Stuff happens. Denied!
 
  • #265
The Defense is claiming that LE may have purposely recorded over substantial interviews with BH and PW on 2/19/2017.
 
  • #266
Here is their reasoning quoted below. I don't know if they violated the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct or anything else by putting out a PR prior to the gag order.

"We do not want to try this case in the media and we intend to adhere to the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct that provide guidance on pretrial publicity. However, the police and prosecutor’s office have conducted many press conferences over the five-plus years of this investigation and following our client’s arrest. On the other hand, Rick’s ability to assert his innocence has been reduced to only one short, post-hearing press conference. Accordingly, we feel it appropriate, necessary, and within the bounds of our rules of professional conduct to make a few comments concerning the probable cause affidavit and Rick’s innocence."


Their statement is perhaps the most ridiculous self-serving thing I have ever heard.
Thousands of recently arrested people have gag orders imposed almost immediately and yet go on to have fair trials and many are acquitted.
This is another incident where the defense gets lauded for bad behavior. Pats on the back for not just misleading but lying to a judge. Flat out, blatant lying. They knew they were lying as the words came out their mouths. Some more of their fabulous “strategy” that has ripped this case to shreds.
For the prosecution to state “we think RA is fine where he is, and here are the reasons why we think the defense is exaggerating all this, but we don’t care if you move him” is a far cry from lying to a judge. Not even close. In fact, you could probably argue that they would have said nothing, but felt compelled to respond to the drama and angst filled motion from the defense.
 
  • #267
MOO
I see it as their one chance, before the judge ruled on the gag order, to get what they wanted to say out there. They took it.
Nick claimed to have a solid case; what spazzed him out so bad that he needed a gag order?

Lying liars who lie = I hear you there, only it's not just the D.

Then there's Nick, with his: Dear Judge... I don't care if RA is transferred but here are umpteen reasons why he should not be. That was slightly amusing; it sounded almost desperate to me.

I wonder about his 'strategist friend'. There is an ex parte filing by the D for funding for an investigator.
If JG approved, do you think the friend was the investigator?
MOO
D wanted to get it out in the nick of time right before the gag order was issued. They said they didn't need gag order because they had no intentions of speaking about anything. So they lied?

Didn't the Prosecutor mention others may be involved when going for the gag order? That would be an important reason, IMO.
 
  • #268
It looks like the Motion the Defense filed is asking to Dismiss all charges against RA. It really is another version of the Franks Memo IMO. According to R&B supposedly LE and the State have taped over interviews done on 2/19/17 of BH and PW.

I would say get the popcorn ready and hang on to your seats folks, this is about to get nasty, but then I remind myself that this is a real case, about real people. 2 beautiful young girls are dead and there is a killer(s) out there that have been free and unpunished for 7 years. That is the sad, hard truth. The families are also being drug through the emotional mud as well. :(

MOO
 
  • #269
Woohoo, I knew things were gonna get hairy in this case. LOL
What does everyone think the Defendants latest motion is all about? What was the exculpatory evidence they may be referring to?
conservation officer couldn’t find the recording of his original interview with RA?
 
  • #270
States PR:
The Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office appreciates the Judge hearing our arguments yesterday morning and looks forward to hearing her ruling. As I stated in court yesterday, we strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby. Because the investigation is ongoing and given the intense public interest in this case, we think it would be best if the documents remain sealed. Regardless of the ruling, we believe we have a very solid case against Mr. Allen and look forward to making our argument in trial.

Nicholas McLeland

Defense PR:
1) ***PRESS RELEASE*** As Richard (Rick) Allen’s attorneys, we have received multiple requests from local and national media for interviews and comment since the unsealing of the probable cause affidavit. It would be virtually impossible to comply with these requests and continue to focus on the merits of Rick’s defense. Therefore, we offer up these thoughts: We do not want to try this case in the media and we intend to adhere to the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct that provide guidance on pretrial publicity. However, the police and prosecutor’s office have conducted many press conferences over the five-plus years of this investigation and following our client’s arrest. On the other hand, Rick’s ability to assert his innocence has been reduced to only one short, post-hearing press conference. Accordingly, we feel it appropriate, necessary, and within the bounds of our rules of professional conduct to make a few comments concerning the probable cause affidavit and Rick’s innocence. • Rick is a 50-year-old man who has never been arrested nor accused of any crime in his entire life. He is innocent and completely confused as to why he has been charged with these crimes. • The police did not contact Rick after Libby German and Abby Williams went missing, rather Rick contacted the police and voluntarily discussed being on the trail that day. Like many people in Delphi, Rick wanted to help any way he could. Rick contacted the police to let them know that he had walked on the trail that day, as he often did. Without Rick coming forward, the police probably would not have had any way of knowing that he was on the trail that day. • Rick volunteered to meet with a Conservation Officer outside of the local grocery store to offer up details of his trip to the trail on the day in question. Rick tried to assist with the investigation and told the police that he did recall seeing three younger girls on the trail that day. His contact with the girls was brief and of little significance. Rick does not recall if this interaction with the Conservation Officer was tape-recorded but believes that the Conservation Officer scribbled notes on a notepad as Rick spoke to him.

2) • After Rick shared his information with law enforcement officials, he went back to his job at the local CVS and didn’t hear from the police for more than 5 years. • The next time Rick heard from the police was in October, 2022. This was approximately two weeks before a contested Sheriff’s election and within days of a federal lawsuit filed against the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office by its former second in command, Michael Thomas. • In the lawsuit, Thomas claims that he (Thomas) “had made suggestions and offered assistance in the investigation of a high-profile child homicide investigation” but those suggestions and offers were rejected by the Sheriff. Thomas further claimed that the Sheriff and others in the department feared the disagreements with Thomas would become publicized as a result of the political campaign for Sheriff. • Thomas claims in the suit that he was ultimately demoted and replaced by Tony Liggett, who later that year won the 2022 election for Sheriff. Furthermore, Thomas claims he was also removed from high profile cases. • Rick was ultimately arrested on or about October 28, 2022. • In the 5+ years since Rick volunteered to provide information to the police, Rick did not get rid of his vehicle or his guns and did not throw out his clothing. He did not alter his appearance; he did not relocate himself to another community. He did what any innocent man would do and continued with his normal routine. • The probable cause affidavit seems to suggest that a single magic bullet is proof of Rick’s guilt. It is a bit premature to engage in any detailed discussions regarding the veracity of this evidence until more discovery is received, but it is safe to say that the discipline of tool-mark identification (ballistics) is anything but a science. The entire discipline has been under attack in courtrooms across this country as being unreliable and lacking any scientific validity. We anticipate a vigorous legal and factual challenge to any claims by the prosecution as to the reliability of its conclusions concerning the single magic bullet. • On Rick’s behalf, we argued to have the PCA unsealed. Rick has nothing to hide. As importantly, we were hoping that we would receive tips that would assist us in proving up his innocence. Not surprisingly, we have been inundated with tips from a variety of sources, all of which will be vetted by our team. Although it is the burden of the prosecutor to prove Rick’s guilt beyond

3) defense team looks forward to conducting its own investigation concerning Rick’s innocence. We appreciate those that have reached out to support his cause. • The prosecutor mentioned, at the last hearing, his belief that others may have been involved in the killing, yet there was no mention in the PCA about a second suspect involved in the killing. The defense is confused by such discrepancies in the investigation and will be in a better position to respond as more discovery is received. • Rick Allen owned a Ford Focus in February of 2017. His Ford Focus is not, in any way, similar to the distinctive look of the PT Cruiser or Smart Car that was described by the witnesses. It seems that the CCSD is trying to bend facts to fit their narrative. • At this point in time, we have received very limited information about this case and look forward to having something more to view than that which was offered up in the sparse PCA. Moving forward, it is our intent to scrutinize the discovery, as it is received, and give the necessary attention to the volumes of tips that we are receiving. To the extent we continue to discover information that points to Rick’s innocence, we will offer up this information to the public, so long as we are not prohibited from doing so as a result of the recent request by the Prosecutor for a gag order or by the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct. Brad Rozzi Hillis, Hillis, Rozzi and Dean Andrew J. Baldwin Baldwin Perry & Kamish, P.C. Attorneys for Rick Allen



Thank goodness, big difference in the States generic PR of 1 paragraph and the Defense's 3 page barn burner. Again, another example of the deceitful behavior of R&B.

MOO
Thanks for posting this to refresh my memory. Sure seems like well over what most everyone would consider just a "few comments". JMO
 
  • #271
Scary isn't it though? How many civilians are determined beyond a reasonable doubt with what little evidence is known to the public that RA is guilty! The notion may not apply to the public, but it sure is interesting to watch it play out in the eye of the public!! It does make me wonder how any accused ever get a fair trial at all in a case such as this that has drawn international attention - it must be very hard to find and select 12 impartial jurors who are willing to hear all the arguments and weigh all the evidence before declaring him guilty!

I wonder how much money and which professionals are used in jury selection? Psychologists? What sort of training do they have and what do they look for? Just an interesting question...


No, not scary at all to me. It’s a false equivalence to worry about commenters lack of reasonable doubt since that's a legal standard and the burden of the State to overcome with evidence for the judge or jury during trial in a courtroom.

People are free in this country to form opinions and change their opinions all they want at any time through the proceedings.

~That sm opinions of RA's guilt is scaring you so as relayed in that post does make it very clear that RA is well served by being kept away from the general population and remaining heavily guarded for his own protection in case someone turns their opinion into action.~

Generalizing; most everyone is now educated on crime, all that crime show and court viewing, they know the State isn’t going to bring charges and detain RA without good reason and maybe even with enough for a reasonable expectation to convict.

I don’t believe it will be hard at all, with due diligence, to find people who will carry out their civic responsibility of jury duty and I have full confidence in them serving honorably as sworn.

People know the difference between making ad lib, impression type comments based on gut, or other superficial means online and the gravity of serving on a jury in a double murder trial of two minors with all the evidence and witnesses in front you as a jury member.

As mentioned many professionals are rallied to make sure both sides are represented and competently argued.

All imo
 
  • #272
IMO not ‘immediately,’ I think if you oppose the gag order and then the party who wants the gag order goes ahead and puts out a statement to the media the next day, you’re like ‘OK, I guess never mind about his request for media silence, seems like we’re making media statements then!’
Big difference between the two. There were no specifics in the Prosecutor's while the D included everything except the kitchen sink. They saved that for the Franks Memo. JMO
 
  • #273
Update. See how easy this was?

02/07/2024Order Issued
The Court, having defendant's Verified Motion to Disqualify (filed January 28, 2024), Defendant's Affidavit (filed January 28, 2024), and Certification of Richard Allen's Attorneys (filed January 28, 2024) under advisement and having considered the pleadings, now denies the Verified Motion to Disqualify without hearing as the Indiana Supreme Court unanimously denied Defendant's previous request on January 18, 2024.
Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ
Order Signed: 02/06/2024

from Gull's minute order above - the "reason" for denying the DQ motion without hearing:

"denies the Verified Motion to Disqualify
without hearing
as the SCOIN unanimously denied Defendant's previous request on Jan 18"

*********

Per Wieneke, the D's appellate counsel:


Wieneke Law Office, LLC

@Wienekelo

The court in the #RichardAllen case has summarily denied the motion to disqualify, citing the Indiana Supreme Court's decision in the second original action. We asked for her removal as part of our remedy because we believed that, moving forward, there would be an appearance of bias, no matter which way the court ruled on motions, objections, etc.

We do not know why the Supreme Court declined to provide us that relief. We are still awaiting the written decision. However, the denial could have been for numerous reasons. Nothing should be read into the Court's order at this point.

However, it should be noted that the Court also denied our requested relief of a new early trial date. That does not mean Rick isn't entitled to an early trial, though. It simply means the Court may have believed the trial court, and not the Supreme Court, was the appropriate forum in which to ask for that relief.

https://x.com/Wienekelo/status/1755248540719129084?s=20

Wieneke:
"nothing should be read into the (Supreme) Court's order"

Above, Wieneke says b/c the SCION ruling hasn't been issued; "nothing should be read into the SCION's order" (meaning Gull's rationale is based on Gull's presumption as to SCION's reasoning).

***********

This DQ motion denial decision from Gull was necessary for Gull to resolve (decide) in order for the Court to have jurisdiction in RA's matters before the court.
 
  • #274
It looks like the Motion the Defense filed is asking to Dismiss all charges against RA. It really is another version of the Franks Memo IMO. According to R&B supposedly LE and the State have taped over interviews done on 2/19/17 of BH and PW.

I would say get the popcorn ready and hang on to your seats folks, this is about to get nasty, but then I remind myself that this is a real case, about real people. 2 beautiful young girls are dead and there is a killer(s) out there that have been free and unpunished for 7 years. That is the sad, hard truth. The families are also being drug through the emotional mud as well. :(

MOO
Is there a link to this madness?
 
  • #275
  • #276
Scary isn't it though? How many civilians are determined beyond a reasonable doubt with what little evidence is known to the public that RA is guilty! The notion may not apply to the public, but it sure is interesting to watch it play out in the eye of the public!! It does make me wonder how any accused ever get a fair trial at all in a case such as this that has drawn international attention - it must be very hard to find and select 12 impartial jurors who are willing to hear all the arguments and weigh all the evidence before declaring him guilty!

I wonder how much money and which professionals are used in jury selection? Psychologists? What sort of training do they have and what do they look for? Just an interesting question...
OJ was acquitted, anything is possible.
 
  • #277
Here's what gets me about BB's description of a light colored '65 Comet. She said it was one like her father used to own. To me, something familiar, maybe sentimental, might jump out and be memorable to somebody more than just something someone drove by without taking much notice.

The fact that we have at least two witnesses who described a dark car parked oddly at the CPS lot, a Smart car or a purple PT cruiser, that makes me believe a dark colored, smaller hatchback type car was parked there. Even BB described a car being parked there, in the same manner, but the PCA didn't include BB's description of that car. So, here's my question. Did she see a car backed in near the CPS lot AND a '65 Comet? Were there maybe two cars in the area?

GH had an interview with a guy back in 2021. He was describing an older model car parked along the road by the CPS building. He didn't see the car backed into the lot, but he said police had told him about it, so the guy doesn't seem to be full of crap. He was working and had a log of the time/dates he was there, too. Is it possible the '65 Comet was this older model car parked along the road? Like you said, @Caylee Advocate, they likely could track down the owner of a car like that, if they were able to determine the exact make/model. I'm just very curious about this.

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If police had told the guy about it, then I wonder if it was only BB who reported it to them, or if others may have as well, perhaps even on different days? Going to be interesting to find out!
 
  • #278
EBM - quoted wrong post. Wondering where can I read the motion to dismiss filings?
 
  • #279
from Gull's minute order above - the "reason" for denying the DQ motion without hearing:



*********

Per Wieneke, the D's appellate counsel:



https://x.com/Wienekelo/status/1755248540719129084?s=20

Wieneke:


Above, Wieneke says b/c the SCION ruling hasn't been issued; "nothing should be read into the SCION's order" (meaning Gull's rationale is based on Gull's presumption as to SCION's reasoning).

***********

This DQ motion denial decision from Gull was necessary for Gull to resolve (decide) in order for the Court to have jurisdiction in RA's matters before the court.
Ok, so then how does she want to handle the contempt motion set for Feb 12? Have we had a ruling on that? Was it continued? Special judge appointed or being sought?
 
  • #280
More like something with the Odinists, probably?
Possible. I'd believe they'd use the clouds were pink that day and the police failed to photo it at this point....
 
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