Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[sunshineray]

The gag order was not in effect when the press release was issued.
Again: There was no violation.
You're welcome.

There was an ethics (going back on their word) violation, IMO, either way. Did the judge not comment on that press release and the lawyers were, for lack of better words, given a hand-slap type reaction from JG?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Ah yes, the infamous "Press Release" issued a day after they claimed directly to the Judge there didn't need to be a gag order because they had no intention of trying the case in the Media. Which is exactly what they did the very next day. Again, another deceitful move like all of their others. Lying liars who lie.

P.S.- I love how it was scratched out on white copy paper, not official letter head from either of the attorneys, maybe they had their 'strategist friend' whip it up for them.

MOO

MOO
I see it as their one chance, before the judge ruled on the gag order, to get what they wanted to say out there. They took it.
Nick claimed to have a solid case; what spazzed him out so bad that he needed a gag order?

Lying liars who lie = I hear you there, only it's not just the D.

Then there's Nick, with his: Dear Judge... I don't care if RA is transferred but here are umpteen reasons why he should not be. That was slightly amusing; it sounded almost desperate to me.

I wonder about his 'strategist friend'. There is an ex parte filing by the D for funding for an investigator.
If JG approved, do you think the friend was the investigator?
MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

There was an ethics (going back on their word) violation, IMO, either way. Did the judge not comment on that press release and the lawyers were, for lack of better words, given a hand-slap type reaction from JG?

Here is their reasoning quoted below. I don't know if they violated the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct or anything else by putting out a PR prior to the gag order.

"We do not want to try this case in the media and we intend to adhere to the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct that provide guidance on pretrial publicity. However, the police and prosecutor’s office have conducted many press conferences over the five-plus years of this investigation and following our client’s arrest. On the other hand, Rick’s ability to assert his innocence has been reduced to only one short, post-hearing press conference. Accordingly, we feel it appropriate, necessary, and within the bounds of our rules of professional conduct to make a few comments concerning the probable cause affidavit and Rick’s innocence."

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/press-release-for-richard-allen.pdf

 

[sunshineray]

Here is their reasoning quoted below. I don't know if they violated the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct or anything else by putting out a PR prior to the gag order.

"We do not want to try this case in the media and we intend to adhere to the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct that provide guidance on pretrial publicity. However, the police and prosecutor’s office have conducted many press conferences over the five-plus years of this investigation and following our client’s arrest. On the other hand, Rick’s ability to assert his innocence has been reduced to only one short, post-hearing press conference. Accordingly, we feel it appropriate, necessary, and within the bounds of our rules of professional conduct to make a few comments concerning the probable cause affidavit and Rick’s innocence."

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/press-release-for-richard-allen.pdf

Yeah the rub is in the "however", same as a "but" to me. JMO

 

[Justice101]

I hope the State asks for a Court date sooner rather than later. Everyone thinks the State isn't ready, I'd wager they are and they need to force R&B's hand to get this to trial.

Oh, the State may need time to schedule interviews with the Defense witnesses and experts that R&B have failed to provide to the State yet. You know that pesky Discovery that R&B have cried about the State not providing to them, when they are the ones who've done very little in the way of reciprocating.

MOO

Well that might be because the defense's list of witnesses is zero at this point

 

[girlhasnoname]

Here is their reasoning quoted below. I don't know if they violated the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct or anything else by putting out a PR prior to the gag order.

"We do not want to try this case in the media and we intend to adhere to the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct that provide guidance on pretrial publicity. However, the police and prosecutor’s office have conducted many press conferences over the five-plus years of this investigation and following our client’s arrest. On the other hand, Rick’s ability to assert his innocence has been reduced to only one short, post-hearing press conference. Accordingly, we feel it appropriate, necessary, and within the bounds of our rules of professional conduct to make a few comments concerning the probable cause affidavit and Rick’s innocence."

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/press-release-for-richard-allen.pdf

That was more than a 'few comments', IMO

 

[Vern]

The gag order was not in effect when the press release was issued.
Again: There was no violation.
You're welcome.

But evidence and disclosure materials were still under seal and not for public consumption at that point.

Prosecution filed to keep it that way. Media & Defence filed to open it up. So gag order was not 'in effect', but the evidence and discovery was still under seal at the point in time of the presser.

 

[Ward Thisperer]

Yeah so that's his opinion but is that procedure?

Indiana procedure states an appointment of a special judge is required for indirect criminal contempt.

https://www.in.gov/courts/iocs/files/pubs-contempt-procedure-benchcard.pdf

 

[FrostedGlass]

That was more than a 'few comments', IMO

You made me look it up:
How many is a few?
A few is generally considered to mean between two and several. Some people use a few to mean around three, but this is not a universal interpretation. Its meaning is highly relative to the context—it often depends on what’s being discussed, especially the scale and expectations.
"Few" vs. "Couple" vs. "Several": How Much Do They Really Mean?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Here’s an interesting flashback article:

Prosecutor in Delphi murder case says case is 'very solid' as judge considers whether to release document with state’s evidence

A judge is still considering Nicholas McLeland's request for a gag order in the Delphi murders case, along with a request to keep court documents sealed.

www.wthr.com

Published: 7:42 PM EST November 23, 2022
Updated: 8:07 PM EST November 24, 2022

DELPHI, Ind. — The prosecutor in the murder case of two Delphi teenagers is trying to reassure the public that he has "a very solid case."
Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland issued a press release Wednesday morning, saying "we strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby [German] and Abby [Williams]." The statement goes on to say “we believe we have very solid case against Mr. Allen and look forward to making our argument at trial.”

The prosecutor's statement is unusual, because just yesterday, he asked a judge to impose a gag order that would prohibit any attorneys, law enforcement officials, court staff, the county coroner and family members from disseminating information or releasing any statements about the case outside of court.

Another article: Carroll County Prosecutor says they have a ‘very solid case’ against Delphi homicide suspect

10/31/22: NM and LE hold 20 minute press conference regarding RA's arrest, field questions from media
11/14/22: B&R appointed.
11/22/22: **order of events is unclear**
- B&R assert RA's innocence in court hearing, request unsealing of PCA, B&R speak to reporters for about 11 minutes outside courtroom afterwards
- NM moves for gag order, B&R tell JG they don't want to try case in the media.
11/23/22: NM issues press release asserting RA's guilt.

States PR:
The Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office appreciates the Judge hearing our arguments yesterday morning and looks forward to hearing her ruling. As I stated in court yesterday, we strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby. Because the investigation is ongoing and given the intense public interest in this case, we think it would be best if the documents remain sealed. Regardless of the ruling, we believe we have a very solid case against Mr. Allen and look forward to making our argument in trial.

Nicholas McLeland

12/1/22: B&R issue press release asserting RA's innocence.

Defense PR:
1) ***PRESS RELEASE*** As Richard (Rick) Allen’s attorneys, we have received multiple requests from local and national media for interviews and comment since the unsealing of the probable cause affidavit. It would be virtually impossible to comply with these requests and continue to focus on the merits of Rick’s defense. Therefore, we offer up these thoughts: We do not want to try this case in the media and we intend to adhere to the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct that provide guidance on pretrial publicity. However, the police and prosecutor’s office have conducted many press conferences over the five-plus years of this investigation and following our client’s arrest. On the other hand, Rick’s ability to assert his innocence has been reduced to only one short, post-hearing press conference. Accordingly, we feel it appropriate, necessary, and within the bounds of our rules of professional conduct to make a few comments concerning the probable cause affidavit and Rick’s innocence. • Rick is a 50-year-old man who has never been arrested nor accused of any crime in his entire life. He is innocent and completely confused as to why he has been charged with these crimes. • The police did not contact Rick after Libby German and Abby Williams went missing, rather Rick contacted the police and voluntarily discussed being on the trail that day. Like many people in Delphi, Rick wanted to help any way he could. Rick contacted the police to let them know that he had walked on the trail that day, as he often did. Without Rick coming forward, the police probably would not have had any way of knowing that he was on the trail that day. • Rick volunteered to meet with a Conservation Officer outside of the local grocery store to offer up details of his trip to the trail on the day in question. Rick tried to assist with the investigation and told the police that he did recall seeing three younger girls on the trail that day. His contact with the girls was brief and of little significance. Rick does not recall if this interaction with the Conservation Officer was tape-recorded but believes that the Conservation Officer scribbled notes on a notepad as Rick spoke to him.

2) • After Rick shared his information with law enforcement officials, he went back to his job at the local CVS and didn’t hear from the police for more than 5 years. • The next time Rick heard from the police was in October, 2022. This was approximately two weeks before a contested Sheriff’s election and within days of a federal lawsuit filed against the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office by its former second in command, Michael Thomas. • In the lawsuit, Thomas claims that he (Thomas) “had made suggestions and offered assistance in the investigation of a high-profile child homicide investigation” but those suggestions and offers were rejected by the Sheriff. Thomas further claimed that the Sheriff and others in the department feared the disagreements with Thomas would become publicized as a result of the political campaign for Sheriff. • Thomas claims in the suit that he was ultimately demoted and replaced by Tony Liggett, who later that year won the 2022 election for Sheriff. Furthermore, Thomas claims he was also removed from high profile cases. • Rick was ultimately arrested on or about October 28, 2022. • In the 5+ years since Rick volunteered to provide information to the police, Rick did not get rid of his vehicle or his guns and did not throw out his clothing. He did not alter his appearance; he did not relocate himself to another community. He did what any innocent man would do and continued with his normal routine. • The probable cause affidavit seems to suggest that a single magic bullet is proof of Rick’s guilt. It is a bit premature to engage in any detailed discussions regarding the veracity of this evidence until more discovery is received, but it is safe to say that the discipline of tool-mark identification (ballistics) is anything but a science. The entire discipline has been under attack in courtrooms across this country as being unreliable and lacking any scientific validity. We anticipate a vigorous legal and factual challenge to any claims by the prosecution as to the reliability of its conclusions concerning the single magic bullet. • On Rick’s behalf, we argued to have the PCA unsealed. Rick has nothing to hide. As importantly, we were hoping that we would receive tips that would assist us in proving up his innocence. Not surprisingly, we have been inundated with tips from a variety of sources, all of which will be vetted by our team. Although it is the burden of the prosecutor to prove Rick’s guilt beyond

3) defense team looks forward to conducting its own investigation concerning Rick’s innocence. We appreciate those that have reached out to support his cause. • The prosecutor mentioned, at the last hearing, his belief that others may have been involved in the killing, yet there was no mention in the PCA about a second suspect involved in the killing. The defense is confused by such discrepancies in the investigation and will be in a better position to respond as more discovery is received. • Rick Allen owned a Ford Focus in February of 2017. His Ford Focus is not, in any way, similar to the distinctive look of the PT Cruiser or Smart Car that was described by the witnesses. It seems that the CCSD is trying to bend facts to fit their narrative. • At this point in time, we have received very limited information about this case and look forward to having something more to view than that which was offered up in the sparse PCA. Moving forward, it is our intent to scrutinize the discovery, as it is received, and give the necessary attention to the volumes of tips that we are receiving. To the extent we continue to discover information that points to Rick’s innocence, we will offer up this information to the public, so long as we are not prohibited from doing so as a result of the recent request by the Prosecutor for a gag order or by the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct. Brad Rozzi Hillis, Hillis, Rozzi and Dean Andrew J. Baldwin Baldwin Perry & Kamish, P.C. Attorneys for Rick Allen

12/1/22 & 12/2/22: JG issues gag order, states this was due to B&R's press release.

Thank goodness, big difference in the States generic PR of 1 paragraph and the Defense's 3 page barn burner. Again, another example of the deceitful behavior of R&B.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

To me the point is if you told the judge you weren't going to try the case in the media then immediately go out to even up the scoreboard then the judge rightly won't trust you in the future.

 

[girlhasnoname]

You made me look it up:
How many is a few?
A few is generally considered to mean between two and several. Some people use a few to mean around three, but this is not a universal interpretation. Its meaning is highly relative to the context—it often depends on what’s being discussed, especially the scale and expectations.
"Few" vs. "Couple" vs. "Several": How Much Do They Really Mean?

Ironic that I was posting out both of the PR releases, the States and the Defense to Ward Thisperer. It's a lot.

 

[FrostedGlass]

But evidence and disclosure materials were still under seal and not for public consumption at that point.

Prosecution filed to keep it that way. Media & Defence filed to open it up. So gag order was not 'in effect', but the evidence and discovery was still under seal at the point in time of the presser.

I don't follow what you're saying. The Probable Cause Affidavit was released on Nov. 29.

 

[mrjitty]

States PR:
The Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office appreciates the Judge hearing our arguments yesterday morning and looks forward to hearing her ruling. As I stated in court yesterday, we strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby. Because the investigation is ongoing and given the intense public interest in this case, we think it would be best if the documents remain sealed. Regardless of the ruling, we believe we have a very solid case against Mr. Allen and look forward to making our argument in trial.

Nicholas McLeland

Defense PR:
1) ***PRESS RELEASE*** As Richard (Rick) Allen’s attorneys, we have received multiple requests from local and national media for interviews and comment since the unsealing of the probable cause affidavit. It would be virtually impossible to comply with these requests and continue to focus on the merits of Rick’s defense. Therefore, we offer up these thoughts: We do not want to try this case in the media and we intend to adhere to the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct that provide guidance on pretrial publicity. However, the police and prosecutor’s office have conducted many press conferences over the five-plus years of this investigation and following our client’s arrest. On the other hand, Rick’s ability to assert his innocence has been reduced to only one short, post-hearing press conference. Accordingly, we feel it appropriate, necessary, and within the bounds of our rules of professional conduct to make a few comments concerning the probable cause affidavit and Rick’s innocence. • Rick is a 50-year-old man who has never been arrested nor accused of any crime in his entire life. He is innocent and completely confused as to why he has been charged with these crimes. • The police did not contact Rick after Libby German and Abby Williams went missing, rather Rick contacted the police and voluntarily discussed being on the trail that day. Like many people in Delphi, Rick wanted to help any way he could. Rick contacted the police to let them know that he had walked on the trail that day, as he often did. Without Rick coming forward, the police probably would not have had any way of knowing that he was on the trail that day. • Rick volunteered to meet with a Conservation Officer outside of the local grocery store to offer up details of his trip to the trail on the day in question. Rick tried to assist with the investigation and told the police that he did recall seeing three younger girls on the trail that day. His contact with the girls was brief and of little significance. Rick does not recall if this interaction with the Conservation Officer was tape-recorded but believes that the Conservation Officer scribbled notes on a notepad as Rick spoke to him.

2) • After Rick shared his information with law enforcement officials, he went back to his job at the local CVS and didn’t hear from the police for more than 5 years. • The next time Rick heard from the police was in October, 2022. This was approximately two weeks before a contested Sheriff’s election and within days of a federal lawsuit filed against the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office by its former second in command, Michael Thomas. • In the lawsuit, Thomas claims that he (Thomas) “had made suggestions and offered assistance in the investigation of a high-profile child homicide investigation” but those suggestions and offers were rejected by the Sheriff. Thomas further claimed that the Sheriff and others in the department feared the disagreements with Thomas would become publicized as a result of the political campaign for Sheriff. • Thomas claims in the suit that he was ultimately demoted and replaced by Tony Liggett, who later that year won the 2022 election for Sheriff. Furthermore, Thomas claims he was also removed from high profile cases. • Rick was ultimately arrested on or about October 28, 2022. • In the 5+ years since Rick volunteered to provide information to the police, Rick did not get rid of his vehicle or his guns and did not throw out his clothing. He did not alter his appearance; he did not relocate himself to another community. He did what any innocent man would do and continued with his normal routine. • The probable cause affidavit seems to suggest that a single magic bullet is proof of Rick’s guilt. It is a bit premature to engage in any detailed discussions regarding the veracity of this evidence until more discovery is received, but it is safe to say that the discipline of tool-mark identification (ballistics) is anything but a science. The entire discipline has been under attack in courtrooms across this country as being unreliable and lacking any scientific validity. We anticipate a vigorous legal and factual challenge to any claims by the prosecution as to the reliability of its conclusions concerning the single magic bullet. • On Rick’s behalf, we argued to have the PCA unsealed. Rick has nothing to hide. As importantly, we were hoping that we would receive tips that would assist us in proving up his innocence. Not surprisingly, we have been inundated with tips from a variety of sources, all of which will be vetted by our team. Although it is the burden of the prosecutor to prove Rick’s guilt beyond

3) defense team looks forward to conducting its own investigation concerning Rick’s innocence. We appreciate those that have reached out to support his cause. • The prosecutor mentioned, at the last hearing, his belief that others may have been involved in the killing, yet there was no mention in the PCA about a second suspect involved in the killing. The defense is confused by such discrepancies in the investigation and will be in a better position to respond as more discovery is received. • Rick Allen owned a Ford Focus in February of 2017. His Ford Focus is not, in any way, similar to the distinctive look of the PT Cruiser or Smart Car that was described by the witnesses. It seems that the CCSD is trying to bend facts to fit their narrative. • At this point in time, we have received very limited information about this case and look forward to having something more to view than that which was offered up in the sparse PCA. Moving forward, it is our intent to scrutinize the discovery, as it is received, and give the necessary attention to the volumes of tips that we are receiving. To the extent we continue to discover information that points to Rick’s innocence, we will offer up this information to the public, so long as we are not prohibited from doing so as a result of the recent request by the Prosecutor for a gag order or by the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct. Brad Rozzi Hillis, Hillis, Rozzi and Dean Andrew J. Baldwin Baldwin Perry & Kamish, P.C. Attorneys for Rick Allen



Thank goodness, big difference in the States generic PR of 1 paragraph and the Defense's 3 page barn burner. Again, another example of the deceitful behavior of R&B.

MOO

It's obvious what they were doing.

I think this is why they are now using surrogates to do the same thing.

 

[Ward Thisperer]

To me the point is if you told the judge you weren't going to try the case in the media then immediately go out to even up the scoreboard then the judge rightly won't trust you in the future.

IMO not ‘immediately,’ I think if you oppose the gag order and then the party who wants the gag order goes ahead and puts out a statement to the media the next day, you’re like ‘OK, I guess never mind about his request for media silence, seems like we’re making media statements then!’

 

[steeltowngirl]

MOO
I see it as their one chance, before the judge ruled on the gag order, to get what they wanted to say out there. They took it.
Nick claimed to have a solid case; what spazzed him out so bad that he needed a gag order?

Lying liars who lie = I hear you there, only it's not just the D.

Then there's Nick, with his: Dear Judge... I don't care if RA is transferred but here are umpteen reasons why he should not be. That was slightly amusing; it sounded almost desperate to me.

I wonder about his 'strategist friend'. There is an ex parte filing by the D for funding for an investigator.
If JG approved, do you think the friend was the investigator?
MOO

NMcL didn’t spazz out. He filed a reasonable motion for a gag order and calmly explained why: the investigation was still ongoing, and media publicity was jeopardizing RA’s right to a fair trial.

https://x.com/MaxLewisTV/status/1595082979679797250?s=20

 

[Cyber sleuth]

To me the point is if you told the judge you weren't going to try the case in the media then immediately go out to even up the scoreboard then the judge rightly won't trust you in the future.

Or the public, or potential jury. You know who will trust them? Individuals facing criminal charges.

 

[sunshineray]

Indiana procedure states an appointment of a special judge is required for indirect criminal contempt.
View attachment 481550

https://www.in.gov/courts/iocs/files/pubs-contempt-procedure-benchcard.pdf

Thanks for the info. Would what the D did be considered indirect to the Delphi case?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Update. See how easy this was?

02/07/2024

Order Issued The Court, having defendant's Verified Motion to Disqualify (filed January 28, 2024), Defendant's Affidavit (filed January 28, 2024), and Certification of Richard Allen's Attorneys (filed January 28, 2024) under advisement and having considered the pleadings, now denies the Verified Motion to Disqualify without hearing as the Indiana Supreme Court unanimously denied Defendant's previous request on January 18, 2024. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 02/06/2024

 

[girlhasnoname]