Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

[Megnut]

What was it? 100 numbers?

We already know a number of people who were there that day. I didn't catch what the collection window was -- if it comprised the whole afternoon, the majority of those numbers would tie to searchers.

I'm not sure how Geo fence tracing works and what LE is and isn't allowed to do with that information without subsequent warrants so.... would they be able to see that a particular phone arrived at a parking lot, entered onto a trail, eventually left? Or do they just get a list of phone numbers?

LE is obligated to protect the privacy of law-abiding citizens which has to be tricky when they don't know which number, if any, belongs to the perpetrator.

How does LE track down the owners of said phone numbers? Call 'em up? Who are you? Are you a killer?

How would LE know a second phone belonged to a victim? Unless geo-fencing somehow pinged at least its last known GPS point. Not sure how GF works!

Could they track a number that was in use at about, what, 1:55 on the first platform?

And another, moving across the bridge at 2:07? Two actually.

Or am I assigning powers to GF that don't exist?

Still, I believe that RA had a phone. Just not his own. And between Libby and Abby, there were two.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

That is what the Defense appears to be asking.

So.... if there's a phone that wasn't LG's, but it is labeled "geo fence victim's", then it might be --

The other victim -- Abby's.

Or it could be the first victim has a second phone...

Unless it's a typo or duplication, it sure looks like they had two phones associated with the two victims, in some fashion.

JMO

I think Abby might have had an older phone or iPad given to her that her Mom didn't know about. Young preteen girls are not going to be without a phone if they can help it.

Makes sense to me.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I think Abby might have had an older phone or iPad given to her that her Mom didn't know about. Young preteen girls are not going to be without a phone if they can help it.

Makes sense to me.

JMO

Yes and as far as we know, a second phone (associated with the victims) was not located.

Who would take it? And why?

That it's missing, to me, that's its own smoking gun.

 

[Schatz]

What was it? 100 numbers?

We already know a number of people who were there that day. I didn't catch what the collection window was -- if it comprised the whole afternoon, the majority of those numbers would tie to searchers.

I'm not sure how Geo fence tracing works and what LE is and isn't allowed to do with that information without subsequent warrants so.... would they be able to see that a particular phone arrived at a parking lot, entered onto a trail, eventually left? Or do they just get a list of phone numbers?

LE is obligated to protect the privacy of law-abiding citizens which has to be tricky when they don't know which number, if any, belongs to the perpetrator.

How does LE track down the owners of said phone numbers? Call 'em up? Who are you? Are you a killer?

How would LE know a second phone belonged to a victim? Unless geo-fencing somehow pinged at least its last known GPS point. Not sure how GF works!

Could they track a number that was in use at about, what, 1:55 on the first platform?

And another, moving across the bridge at 2:07? Two actually.

Or am I assigning powers to GF that don't exist?

Still, I believe that RA had a phone. Just not his own. And between Libby and Abby, there were two.

JMO

Point 30 in Motion to Compel states:

 

[layer]

Playing around with a satellite image from 4-2017. Drawing a circle with a 100 yard radius. Now, if someone can just tell me exactly where the crime scene is...

 

[Megnut]

Point 30 in Motion to Compel states:
View attachment 490280

Did MT mind make up an actual number of phone numbers? Ha, me!

"Phone numbers of multiple people" is even less bombshelly. Lots of people were in and around the bridge that day over a span of time.

Nothing shocking there.

Nothing Burger.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

What was it? 100 numbers?

We already know a number of people who were there that day. I didn't catch what the collection window was -- if it comprised the whole afternoon, the majority of those numbers would tie to searchers.

I'm not sure how Geo fence tracing works and what LE is and isn't allowed to do with that information without subsequent warrants so.... would they be able to see that a particular phone arrived at a parking lot, entered onto a trail, eventually left? Or do they just get a list of phone numbers?

LE is obligated to protect the privacy of law-abiding citizens which has to be tricky when they don't know which number, if any, belongs to the perpetrator.

How does LE track down the owners of said phone numbers? Call 'em up? Who are you? Are you a killer?

How would LE know a second phone belonged to a victim? Unless geo-fencing somehow pinged at least its last known GPS point. Not sure how GF works!

Could they track a number that was in use at about, what, 1:55 on the first platform?

And another, moving across the bridge at 2:07? Two actually.

Or am I assigning powers to GF that don't exist?

Still, I believe that RA had a phone. Just not his own. And between Libby and Abby, there were two.

JMO

Agree.

What I do know is that the we know more about the State's case because of the Defense Motions filings. Shouldn't that Motion have been filed under seal? They are naming names and talking about specific details of the case. I guess the same rules don't always apply.

I wonder if R&B are having second thoughts being back on this case? They are having to pay DAVID HENNESSEY (he likes to use all caps for his name on Motions?) quite a bit of $$ I'd guess to represent them in this contempt case. A lot more than they're making defending RA. Huh... I just realized we seldom actually talk about the accused Defendant RA anymore.

What a pathetic mess this has become and a dishonor to Abby, Libby, their families and the entire Justice System IMO.

I feel certain when it is the appropriate time at trial, we will be surprised at just how much evidence the State really has against RA. I think it's been a far bigger picture than we know for awhile now.

MOO

#Justice4Abby&Libby

 

[DeDee]

This Filing is from the Defense - Motion to Compel and Request for Sanctions.
NOTE - It's 18 pages long. Here's the second set of 9 pages ... divided b/c I'm wary as to how many screenshots this forum accepts in one post ...
View attachment 489960
View attachment 489961
View attachment 489962
View attachment 489963
View attachment 489964
View attachment 489965
View attachment 489966
View attachment 489967
View attachment 489968

Is this a roadmap showing the DA's Office the path of the Defense's strategy? There is certain information they're seeking in this Motion to Compel Discovery.

The information found within terrifies me. Their murders have always scared me unlike any case I've ever studied. I grew up on Nancy Drew books and evolved over the years to where my eyes are wide open. This remains a very dangerous case today. The first Prosecutor leaves office and the first Judge recuses himself.

One of the FBI Agents involved with the Odin investigation into the murders of Libby and Abby was gunned down in Terre Haute, FBI Agent Greg Ferency on July 7, 2021.

# 21 August 5, 2023, the defense team had the Odin theory figured out despite the DA's office withholding much of the data. Some of what the DA presented was later found to be disingenuous.


edited for corrections

 

[FrostedGlass]

Playing around with a satellite image from 4-2017. Drawing a circle with a 100 yard radius. Now, if someone can just tell me exactly where the crime scene is...

Maybe here, in #1 Will you post your map?

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

 

[Willow Knight]

It's been common knowledge for quite awhile, Sept 2020, that LE told Anna Williams there were 50+ people in and around the trails that day. Why didn't the D ask long ago for all the names of these people? It's mentioned around the 27:45 time mark.

Thank you @sunshineray

First time I saw this interview. She gives a very good explanation for the two sketches also. Thanks for posting.

Edit to add: around the 18:00 mark Miss Anna speaks of Abby did have a FB account that was unknown to her (Anna). I wonder what Abby used to access the FB acct? Unknown cell?

 

[Schatz]

Did MT mind make up an actual number of phone numbers? Ha, me!

"Phone numbers of multiple people" is even less bombshelly. Lots of people were in and around the bridge that day over a span of time.

Nothing shocking there.

Nothing Burger.

JMO

100 yards doesn't even reach RL's home, let alone the bridge.

 

[layer]

Maybe here, in #1 Will you post your map?

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Is there something in the RL warrant saying where it is? I'm not seeing it. I suppose I can just make a guess, and move it as requested.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Is there something in the RL warrant saying where it is? I'm not seeing it. I suppose I can just make a guess, and move it as requested.

View attachment 490297

Lat 40 35' 21.4" Long 86 38' 23.3"
These numbers are repeated twice in the first paragraph.

 

[layer]

Maybe here, in #1 Will you post your map?

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Aha! Latitude & longitude! That is huge.



ETA: Again, that satellite image is from April 2017.

 

[layer]

Isn't that all private property?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I've mostly stopped following this case as it's just devolved into a never-ending mess, and WOW am I really out of the loop. The defendant's original attorneys have been re-instated? I REALLY didn't see that one coming.

Does anyone have a good recommendation on where to go to get caught up on this case? I've been trying to find simple explanations in MSM, YouTube videos, etc., but it is difficult to find clear and concise explanations on where things stand now.

This has become so darn convoluted, I couldn't begin to tell where to get some good, unbiased info. Maybe you can pick up what's going on here. I do know there is a Contemp Hearing on Monday for the Defense, the Defense also filed for a Speedy Trial so the Judge set it at May 13-31.

RA is still in Washburn as far as I know. Lots of stuff has got to start happening if there is really going to be a trial in May.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but good to see you pop back in.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Isn't that all private property?

Yes.

 

[Emma Peel]

Is this a roadmap showing the DA's Office the path of the Defense's strategy? There is certain information they're seeking in this Motion to Compel Discovery.

The information found within terrifies me. Their murders have always scared me unlike any case I've ever studied. I grew up on Nancy Drew books and evolved over the years to where my eyes are wide open. This remains a very dangerous case today. The first Prosecutor leaves office and the first Judge recuses himself.

One of the FBI Agents involved with the Odin investigation into the murders of Libby and Abby was gunned down in Terre Haute, FBI Agent Greg Ferency on July 7, 2021.

# 21 August 5, 2023, the defense team had the Odin theory figured out despite the DA's office withholding much of the data. Some of what the DA presented was later found to be disingenuous.

View attachment 490281
edited for corrections

IMO, the P withheld possible exculpatory discovery related to the D's theory until the D accidentally followed clues that let them to ask the right questions and figure out that there was more discovery related to their theory. For example, the geotracker stuff did not make it into the Franks Motion/Memo b/c D didn't receive that info when discovery was due.

I don't know about a roadmap, but the D is making sure, and getting on the record, that they believe P has not been timely nor forthcoming with regard to giving them relevant discovery and evidence.

This is NOT how discovery goes.

Maybe the Prosecution has good reason to hold that information back. Maybe things were lost. Maybe the FBI had the geotracker stuff and they didn't know to ask for it. We'll see. JMHO.

 

[TL4S]

Aha! Latitude & longitude! That is huge.

View attachment 490303

ETA: Again, that satellite image is from April 2017.

Seriously, if the people whose phones were in this area around the time of the murders had nothing to do with the murders nor witnessed anything, WTF?

 

[snooptroop88]

This is why i wish Gull had moved all this sanctions mess to a different court. I am tuning out of it. Wake me up if anything relevant to the trial happens.

Seriously, I've had the same attitude now for a while on this. At least the actual trial will be coming soon, though.