Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[layer]

That's okay if don't agree, I wouldn't have it any other way.

I love discussions, but agreeing is more fun in the end.

RA was on the prowl for a young girl(s). imo

Substitute BG for RA and I agree. Whatever happened out there wasn't an accident. Some level of planning had to occur.

From what I've seen and read about BB she was always only identified, nobody mentioned with her, but as we know that doesn't mean anything in this case.

Thanks!
I'm starting to get a read-between-the-lines feeling with BB, sort of similar to EF.

 

[nadia90]

If that's Due Process, I agree. Dp

 

[nadia90]

If that's Due Process, I agree.

No that's the death penalty

 

[layer]

Next witness saw him after the crime so hat on and hood up, walking back to his vehicle. Likely looking disheveled, like he had been in a fight. I'm sure he saw/heard her car coming up too and did a lot to conceal himself. So one witness before the crime. Hood down, maybe the brownish hat is on and she sees him from the side.
Next witness SC spots him after the crime and with hood and hat up. She described his jacket as tan. Can't make tan out of blue but maybe dried wet mud looks like dirt. MOO

Is there any chance you know where these sightings occurred? Maybe when they occurred, too, but you said after the crime so that puts it into a range, at least. But I sure wish I knew where he was seen.

 

[TL4S]

Riddle me this:

If CC lost 70 days of interviews due to taping system user error (?) ... how many of those interviews were about entirely different cases than this case?

This 2017 case (Abby/Libby) and its investigation has been extremely protracted, but other CC cases/investigations/trials have not.

Assuming other 2017 interviews were used in other 2107 CC cases ... when did CC LE realize that 70 days of taped interviews were lost?

Was the system only for the Abby/Libby case?

Good point. I'd be curious if any of those lost recordings were brought up in other cases or made an impact on their judgements.

I'm mainly surprised that the problem took so long to be discovered. Did absolutely no investigator have reason to listen to any of those very early interviews until months later?

 

[justtrish]

View attachment 498400

I would guess her sketch would be less accurate than someone who physically passed him and saw his face as he went by. I wonder if she assumed he was younger because he was out on the bridge. I know I would think that if I just saw a person standing there and I turned around and walked away. I might just assume they were younger if I was asked later. I think the puffy hair she saw could have been whatever hat/hood or both he had on at that time. IF he says he didn't see anyone else then it's possible he didn't even look at her or notice she was there and turned around and went the other way.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It seems like she is lucky to be alive

RA never saw her and she might have not been his desired target. IMO

 

[justtrish]

Is there any chance you know where these sightings occurred? Maybe when they occurred, too, but you said after the crime so that puts it into a range, at least. But I sure wish I knew where he was seen.

I dont have the specific name, but it was as he was walking along the road back to his car. He didn't walk back on the trail the same way he entered. He was seen on the road that goes past that cemetery and goes on up to where the Hoosier harvester was I think. The video put together by Gray Hughes that was posted a few days ago shows exactly all the people listed in the AA and the times they saw BG.. where he was and where they were. IT helps make it all make sense as far as the witness and where they encountered BG/RA and then where the crime scene is and where his car was and so on.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Per your second bold, I think the Frank's Memo purposefully conflates descriptions.

The witnesses don't get a chance to clear up any confusion until trial. One switch to the other sketch and BB is referring to old BG for a 10 of 10 match. An attorney in another trial argued before a judge that there was DNA from known SA offenders in the victim's var even though she knew full well they weren't direct matches and the car wasn't even the crime scene. Judge ate it up with a side of fries.

What if the YBG sketch was generated from recall by a friend of Libby's, recalled the individual whom Libby had been messaging? Later discovered/cinfirmed when LE got into Libby's phone which is when LE changed the direction of their investigation. Not sure this theory is supported by what we know but I think we can't trust what's been suggested about so saw what and when.

But I'll throw this out there and contradict my own self -- if BB is the source of the YBG sketch, perhaps his hood, cap, shadowing gave an impression of poofy hair and his agility on the platform gave him the appearance of youth. Didn't seem like a stodgy middle-aged man but a spry, younger one.

So ready for all of this to be cleared up!

JMO

He was quite springy in the pool hall video from December 2016. BB was also facing southwest in the afternoon looking from a shaded area. RA probably was backlit by the sun since he was standing in the opening of trees directly south west from her. And 50ft away. Unfortunately she saw one man then the girls and no one else in between. Moments before the girls were abducted. I just think she didn’t get a good look. I don’t know how she could even describe his face if he was facing away from her looking at his phone or fish below.
JMO

 

[justtrish]

It seems like she is lucky to be alive

I think he needed someone to be across the bridge. IT would be easier for someone to escape if they didn't have to first run across that bridge to get to safety. If he was on the bridge and she turned around at the bridge and went back on the trail toward her car, then he couldn't isolate her. I think he either was waiting for someone to cross the bridge or he knew Abby and Libby would be there and he was waiting specifically for them. I don't think they expected BG.. if they knew someone was coming, I think they thought it was a young guy not a grown older man.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Is there any chance you know where these sightings occurred? Maybe when they occurred, too, but you said after the crime so that puts it into a range, at least. But I sure wish I knew where he was seen.

North side of 300 walking west to his car per PCA. Approximately 3:57 pm. They have never given us the exact location.
IMO it was close to where his car was as parked because I believe this witness also noticed the oddly parked car at cps that he was headed to. AJMO

 

[Willow Knight]

This.

And that's where the statement comes from IMO -- that the sketches are one and the same.

How can that be?

KAK used Anthony_Shots and EmilyAnn to communication with young teens in order to solicit CSAM, originally for his own consumption. (Bigger fish swarmed in when he discovered he could capitalize on it.)

We know others had access to his Dropbox irrc and to his AS and ES accounts, based on user differences in syntaxes.

Libby knew only A_S. She had no way of knowing he was A-A and E_A or that others were manipulating the E_A account. Grown men.

I think LE put out that YBG composite sketch not to get tips on the model whose photos were stolen but to get other girls to come forward who may have communicated with A_S (wouldn't even need to be girls in Delphi -- internet -- KAK could have solicited CSAM from anywhere).

My thinking, when this all comes out, RA is BG and he is YBG because he accessed that account, indirectly it's what lured them there that day (I believe that KAK set it up).... RA tracked them straight to the MHB arriving only minutes before them.

And that is how RA is both BG and YBG.

JMO

I get it now! Couldn't figure out how the profile image of Anthony Shots was 'seen' on the bridge, it wasn't. Found this in my records. Link to the quotes are below.

I snipped the article to comply with TOS. Article is a good read.

From the article:
In the press release from Indiana State Police, they included these images posted by the creator of the anthony_shots profile.

The profile used images of a well-known male model (SBM). The creator of the fictitious profile used this information while communicating with juvenile females to solicit nude images, obtain their addresses and attempt to meet them.

Police say the man in the photos is not a person of interest, but they are looking for information about who created the profile and used his images.

Investigators would like any individual that communicated with, met, or attempted to meet the anthony_shots profile to contact law enforcement

Detectives looking for information related to social media account in connection to Abby and Libby investigation

As the investigation into the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams continues, detectives are looking for information about a social media profile.

www.wrtv.com

 

[layer]

North side of 300 walking west to his car per PCA. Approximately 3:57 pm. They have never given us the exact location.
IMO it was close to where his car was as parked because I believe this witness also noticed the oddly parked car at cps that he was headed to. AJMO

Thanks!
Gah, I hate the way these roads are labeled. So the actual road is W 300 N at approx 3:57. If the the sighting was on the north side, it would have had to have been before this road turns north and passes the CPS building.
Do we know which of the post-crime witnesses this is - the earlier or the later?

 

[Megnut]

Personal curiosity, I'd like to see RA's bank and credit card statements for February 13th and 14th that year. By chance, did he love bomb his wife? Wife and daughter? Gifts? Trinkets? (Trophies?) Dinner out? Dinner in? Amorous? Nostalgic? Pull her in?

Inevitably he was hungry. Crazy to think he could go from the ghastly scene of his creation below the MHB and sit down for supper, a regular day in the life. But chances are, he did just that. Leaving those slayed girls to the cold night.... while carrying on... his life didn't stop.

I hope LE has the data.

JMO

 

[vinayd]

I would guess her sketch would be less accurate than someone who physically passed him and saw his face as he went by. I wonder if she assumed he was younger because he was out on the bridge. I know I would think that if I just saw a person standing there and I turned around and walked away. I might just assume they were younger if I was asked later. I think the puffy hair she saw could have been whatever hat/hood or both he had on at that time. IF he says he didn't see anyone else then it's possible he didn't even look at her or notice she was there and turned around and went the other way.

I believe if he saw her we would hear that somewhere in the alibi. Like I saw her walk back to her car and I continued to mine? MOO.

 

[vinayd]

North side of 300 walking west to his car per PCA. Approximately 3:57 pm. They have never given us the exact location.
IMO it was close to where his car was as parked because I believe this witness also noticed the oddly parked car at cps that he was headed to. AJMO

Thank you I had a back and forth of screenshots of the Gray Hughes animation, the Franks and PCA and finally waved the flag lol!

I will admit I confused myself. Which witness saw both groups of girls? Was that BB or SC? I think BB based on seeing them as she was parking to begin the walk and then seeing L&A on the way back to her car?

ETA: Yes BB per the PCA

Betsy advised she saw juvenile females walking on the bridge over Old State Road 25 as she was driving underneath on her way to park. Betsy advised there were no other cars parked across from the Mears farm when
she parked. She advised she walked to the Monon High Bridge and observed male matching
the one from Victim 2's video. She described the male she saw as white male, wearing blue
jeans and blue jean jacket.

 

[justtrish]

Thank you I had a back and forth of screenshots of the Gray Hughes animation, the Franks and PCA and finally waved the flag lol!

I will admit I confused myself. Which witness saw both groups of girls? Was that BB or SC? I think BB based on seeing them as she was parking to begin the walk and then seeing L&A on the way back to her car?

Yes BB saw a group of girls on freedom bridge as she was heading to the trail in her car.. then it shows exactly when she was arriving so we can be sure of the time she saw the girls near freedom bridge based on that time stamp of her car arriving.

We know that the girls saw BG before they got to the freedom bridge so we can be certain that just before BB saw the group of girls, those girls saw BG heading in the direction of monan high bridge.

Then BB parks and starts her walk at which time she sees BG on the Monan High bridge and we know she turned around and went back to her car and passes Abby and Libby. We know exactly when Abby and Libby were dropped off and we know exactly what time BB leaves in her car and those times all line up.

I think based on BB not seeing any other men after she passed Abby and Libby and we know that BG was on the bridge at that time so I feel confident saying that BG is who BB saw and it's who Abby and Libby recorded. What is sad is the time that the video Abby starts recording is 2:13 and if I'm remembering right the time BB's car is seen leaving is 2:14. SO close.. yet so far away to save them or prevent BG from deciding to take the girls.

 

[Trebor5591]

The video put together by Gray Hughes that was posted a few days ago shows exactly all the people listed in the AA and the times they saw BG.. where he was and where they were. IT helps make it all make sense as far as the witness and where they encountered BG/RA and then where the crime scene is and where his car was and so on.

I couldn't find the video you refer to. A link would be great! Thanks

 

[vinayd]

RA once again placed himself as seeing the first group of girls in the 10/13/2022 interview. The one where he thought he was helping to solve the case:

0n October 13'", 2022 Richard Allen was interviewed again by investigators. He
advised he was on the trails on February 13'", 2017. He stated he saw juvenile girls on the
trails east of Freedom Bridge and that he went onto the Monon High Bridge. Richard Allen
further stated he went out onto the Monon High Bridge to watch the fish. Later in his
statement, he said he walked out to the first platform on the bridge.

If there was another group of 2-4 girls between 12:30-1:30 I am sure they have been interviewed and are not a part of the evidence. There's going to be a lot of it.

 

[justtrish]

I couldn't find the video you refer to. A link would be great! Thanks

It isn't graphic at all, but it is hard to watch once BG and the 2 dots representing Abby and Libby are moving together down the hill and to the crime scene.

This was based on the AA and the eye witness statements as well as the video time stamps for the cars coming and going. It is very well done and shows just how possible it is for 1 man to do this and for that person to be the one each witness or group of witnesses saw.