Accident or Intentional; Evidence and Debate

[LambChop]

I know this is off topic, however I believe it will play the biggest role in this whole trial. So I am giving my 2 cents. A Judge should never make a comment like this before the investigation is finished. Judges have super power. People just simply believe Judges flat out. Their word is gold. That statement has set the tone for this entire pretrial timeframe. It is obvious that the Judge feels the defendant is guilty from the get go. The Judge does not believe in innocent until proven guilty. There is no way possible that Kc can get a fair trial. Furthermore the Judge has ruled accordingly. I respectfully disagree with a comment like this from any Judge in any trial. I want Judges to be impartial. He may follow the letter of the law and look like he is being fair, but I can't help but think that he is leaning the states way, based on his own beliefs of what he feels Kc is. He should have removed himself after saying that. I hope he does not become the trial Judge. IMO

Ps I realize that I will get responses from posters that I am a Judge basher. I am not a Judge basher. I respect Judges and it is because I do not see them doing things like this. Most Judges are way above this kind of behavior. IMO

I believe by that statement by the judge was stating a fact. He is still the judge so I do not think there is a conflict. Maybe he was trying to send her a message that lying is not a good thing since in HER statement to the police she admitted to lying. At the time KC presented to LE, the court and all the world that someone kidnapped her child......not just kept her for a few days while she could get her sh*t together....she accused someone of kidnapping her child and then refused to help LE find that child. So the judge was speaking from what was fact at the time because Ms. Anthony would not give anyone any useful information to help find her child. If the judge was inappropriate he would have been gone by now. Plus JS was the very same judge in her Fraud case that gave her a light sentence. JMO

 

[Dignity4Victims]

I know this is off topic, however I believe it will play the biggest role in this whole trial. So I am giving my 2 cents. A Judge should never make a comment like this before the investigation is finished. Judges have super power. People just simply believe Judges flat out. Their word is gold. That statement has set the tone for this entire pretrial timeframe. It is obvious that the Judge feels the defendant is guilty from the get go. The Judge does not believe in innocent until proven guilty. There is no way possible that Kc can get a fair trial. Furthermore the Judge has ruled accordingly. I respectfully disagree with a comment like this from any Judge in any trial. I want Judges to be impartial. He may follow the letter of the law and look like he is being fair, but I can't help but think that he is leaning the states way, based on his own beliefs of what he feels Kc is. He should have removed himself after saying that. I hope he does not become the trial Judge. IMO

Ps I realize that I will get responses from posters that I am a Judge basher. I am not a Judge basher. I respect Judges and it is because I do not see them doing things like this. Most Judges are way above this kind of behavior. IMO

I understand why the statement, "The truth and Ms. Anthony are strangers", makes you uncomfortable, but Judge Strickland wasn't giving opinion at that point, it was and still is, fact.

Proven fact, and because it was already proven by LE that the apartment wasn't even inhabited and hadn't been for months, the security cameras at Sawgrass didn't show Casey being there when she lied and said she was, Judge Strickland had every legal right to make that factual statement.

Also, most people are smart enough to know that your statement of "Judges have super powers" is not true when it comes to the court room litigation of determining guilt or innocence. Judges must follow the law and guidelines for litigation just as attorneys do. It's somewhat 'pre-determined', if you will.

If it were all up to the Judge to make that determination, we wouldn't have trials, lawyers and most of all jurors; the main players who really do in a sense have "super powers" if you'd like to for some reason, call it that.

 

[logicalgirl]

How do you know for a fact that she is not telling the truth? Other than speculation that she has lied about everything.

Well, we've seen her lie (taking the LE to Universal for a start) her mother says she lies, her father says she lies, her brother says she lies and her friends say she lies. That's a good start I think.

Reasonable doubt here. One plus one makes two and all that.

 

[AZlawyer]

Well, we've seen her lie (taking the LE to Universal for a start) her mother says she lies, her father says she lies, her brother says she lies and her friends say she lies. That's a good start I think.

Reasonable doubt here. One plus one makes two and all that.

And she said herself that she was lying.

And, NTS, I think I answered this one for you on your visitor messages a long time ago. We should try to stay OT for this thread.

 

[Dignity4Victims]

I can see her asking for a do over if found guilty and saying then, wait, it was really an accident.

Can't vote for the DP yet, though.

That won't fly, in fact it won't even fly getting accepted as a reasonable appeal for consideration, much less granted.

I do see your point though that Casey would be ridiculous enough to think she could master this maneuver.

That's why Casey and Baez are a good match; neither of them deal in reality or truth.

 

[logicalgirl]

She also said she was a wonderful mother that could never hurt her child..so she has two opinions..

One was said in private to family members and friends, the other was said in defense to tv cameras to the world who suspected her daughter was a monster who killed her own child.

Which one do you think was true?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I am sorry I must have missed where Shirley said that she believed that Casey would kill Caylee. I also hate to say it, but I dont think she was involved with Casey and Caylee enough to have an opinion on that. Not to mention IF Shirley said that, there are an awful lot of other statements from those who WERE involved closely with Casey and Caylee who say the opposite.

I also think that Mothers defend and/protect their children (it is biologically programmed into us after all). I think that Shirley would have a negative view of Casey for many reasons that have to do with HER daughter Cindy, and not necessarily her "own observations".

Protecting children is certainly not programmed into us. Human behavior is learned not instinctual all credible research shows this.

 

[marspiter]

I think the problem the defense is going to have with either an accident theory or a SODDI theory is the word "reasonable". In my humble opinion the only thing the defense has in its bag of tricks is attacking premeditation. I personally think they need to attack that and go for a LIO like manslaughter. I personally don't think it will work but it's the best thing they have atm....unless of course they can produce a "Zanny" that fits all the criteria and had access to Casey's car, home, child, and personal belongings (as I've said before) who shows up with a notarized confession and 3 pieces of ID. However there is that looming wild card that I know JBean cringes at every time it's mentioned.....First Degree "Felony" Murder......sorry about that I just keep thinking about that aggravated child abuse charge in the back ground.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I was refferring to what Kc told police and not what Lp says that TMc says
that someone else says that she said. Oh yeah, Ga was in their too.
People should stop putting words in Kc mouth, because it wont fly at trial.

From the letters it sounds like Kc does not believe Zanny is the perp. She has never said so either. She has only said that she dropped off Caylee at the steps at Sawgrass apts.

The Jury will be made up of people just like Ws I disagree somewhat.
I doubt the general public is on the same level as ws 'r doubt a Ws'r would even qualify to be on the jury. Furthermore, in the gulty not guilty thread, the not guilty made up for 11 percent. That is a hung Jury IMO

She said Zanny beat her up and took Caylee at Blanchard Park in the second version of events.

 

[beach]

I understand why the statement, "The truth and Ms. Anthony are strangers", makes you uncomfortable, but Judge Strickland wasn't giving opinion at that point, it was and still is, fact.

Proven fact, and because it was already proven by LE that the apartment wasn't even inhabited and hadn't been for months, the security cameras at Sawgrass didn't show Casey being there when she lied and said she was, Judge Strickland had every legal right to make that factual statement.

--respectfully snipped

AND, by then, she had continued to maintain that she worked at Universal up to the point of walking with LE to her imaginary office until she was forced to admit she lied. Casey herself admitted that she lied. sheesh. :banghead:

 

[logicalgirl]

And she said herself that she was lying.

And, NTS, I think I answered this one for you on your visitor messages a long time ago. We should try to stay OT for this thread.

Well, I discounted the fact that Casey says herself that she lies because ...well...she lies. LOL OMG I'd better go and do some work I am losing my mind here.

 

[nort]

well, i discounted the fact that casey says herself that she lies because ...well...she lies. Lol omg i'd better go and do some work i am losing my mind here.

me too

 

[LambChop]

I think the problem the defense is going to have with either an accident theory or a SODDI theory is the word "reasonable". In my humble opinion the only thing the defense has in its bag of tricks is attacking premeditation. I personally think they need to attack that and go for a LIO like manslaughter. I personally don't think it will work but it's the best thing they have atm....unless of course they can produce a "Zanny" that fits all the criteria and had access to Casey's car, home, child, and personal belongings (as I've said before) who shows up with a notarized confession and 3 pieces of ID. However there is that looming wild card that I know JBean cringes at every time it's mentioned.....First Degree "Felony" Murder......sorry about that I just keep thinking about that aggravated child abuse charge in the back ground.

Let's hope Mr. CM is looking out for the welfare of his client and trying to work a plea deal for her. I personally do not want to see her put to death. She needs to spend the rest of her life or a good portion of it thinking about what she has done. IMO death would be too easy. JMO

 

[Mendara]

I don't believe this was an accident and cover up, not for a minute do I believe this. There were maybe a zillion times KC was faced with the wrath of tantrums from Caylee where she could have lost her temper etc. and she didn't hurt her or abuse her - and I believe there were also many times Caylee was in dangerous situations when left alone with her mom (like the scene of Caylee on TL's balcony all alone). I sincerely believe KC would have enjoyed the attention and sympathy of losing the child in an accident and would not have gone to the lengths she has gone to with this. MY OPINION only based on what I have heard, read from only KC's mouth and pen.

I believe that this was pure planned murder. That things were coming to a bottle neck at home - she was being pushed by CA to step up and be a mother - to be on her own with Caylee - and that the situation with TL was also coming to a head - with his apartment not being a kid friendly place, with his threats of moving back to NYC, with his frequent Fusion hangouts etc. - I feel KC did not want to lose the freedom of following TL to NYC - or going out with friends - she enjoyed her time away from Caylee and CA and now CA was no longer going to babysit - KC had no job - no nanny - so she had a choice - either step up, be a mother, get a job, get your own place, do what MOTHER says. OR OR - get rid of what is in your way - CAYLEE.

She chose the path that would in one swoop remove her cage and punish her mother.

And it was working she was free - CA was out of her life at least for a few weeks - TL was all into it - Caylee was gone and she convinced herself that she did it because she had to.

this is my opinion - to me KC is the most evil type of killer and she is young and if released has the potential to do it again - she is very convinced that people love her - want her - believe her - and strive to protect her.

I can't wait for the jury to convince her otherwise
.

 

[Aedrys]

And out of all the unloving statements made in her jail letters about Caylee, this one was absolutely the most glaring one of all to me.

In fact, it only reiterates Shirley Plesea's statement to LE. For a great-grandmother to actually make such a statement is enormous.

Shirley is someone who had frequent contact with Cindy, Casey and Caylee, as well as emails from Cindy, updating Shirley on the everyday life, the history of what transpired in the Anthony household long before Caylee's murder.

For Shirley to know there was a history of jealousy and hatred between Cindy and Casey over Caylee will impact that jury in a huge way.

And if Shirley has to get on the stand to testify, that is just cruel and shows how little Cindy cares for her own mother and Casey for her own grandmother. Shirley and Alex should not be dragged into this! Not caring to the point of making elderly family members have to court is just another example of how self centered these people are. This was no accident!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

What did they lie about? Be specific please? thanks

It's not my job to point these things out they're here for all the world to see, but at any rate: They lied about not selling pics/videos, or receiving money for same, Baez lied about Casey saying "I will hold my head high", when Casey actually said "Get me the 'f' out of here", Macaluso's bizarre statement of having definitive proof that Casey could not have murdered Caylee (then provided no evidence as ordered by Judge S.), not brokering deals for Caylee media, stating they have not been able to see records for TES when they've had access to them for months on end, etc.

Not to mention Baez' general dishonesty regarding child support, shady business dealings, smuggling communications in and out of jail for the anthonys, etc.

 

[ohiogirl]

Well, I discounted the fact that Casey says herself that she lies because ...well...she lies. LOL OMG I'd better go and do some work I am losing my mind here.

Yikes, that fact that I am agreeing with that, shows :dance:that has to be it for the day for me too!

 

[LambChop]

Was it JB who asked SA for some type of a deal early on in the case only to have KC turn it down? I think it was for limited immunity. If defense were to ask for a plea deal if she agreed to tell the truth and the state were to turn KC down I would think there would be more sympathy out there for her because she made the attempt to come clean. But to "march to the end of the hall" with her life thumbing her nose all the way, you won't see much in the way of sympathy for her. JMO

 

[notthatsmart]

Yes she did right after her daughter was POI in Caylee's murder. Let's go back to before KC murdered Caylee. CA was going to try, and get custody because KC was a wonderful mother. Does that make any sense to you?

First you should establish that as fact. Did Ca state that she was going to try to get custody of Caylee? I am not aware of this as fact, so please give me some details as to who said what to who. I have heard this rumored around the threads, but where is this coming from?

 

[notthatsmart]

How could it be his opinion when he viewed the Target, and BOA tapes. Why would he say she is innocent with that evidence?

I was talking about the posters opinion. Who are you talking about?