Accident or Intentional; Evidence and Debate

[Mendara]

First you should establish that as fact. Did Ca state that she was going to try to get custody of Caylee? I am not aware of this as fact, so please give me some details as to who said what to who. I have heard this rumored around the threads, but where is this coming from?

CA's Co-worker

 

[Dignity4Victims]

First you should establish that as fact. Did Ca state that she was going to try to get custody of Caylee? I am not aware of this as fact, so please give me some details as to who said what to who. I have heard this rumored around the threads, but where is this coming from?

You said you don't always read the documents, but this is where it helps to read them!

Cindy's co-workers stated that Cindy was considering getting custody of Caylee and she had told them so.

 

[Swancat63]

This is just my opinion after reading all the posts for this thread. And it is purely what I think. If your child is "missing", plain and simple, you and your parents, don't LIE about ONE THING. You want to find your child, they want to find their grandchild, and you do and/or say EVERYTHING you can to help LE find your child. You don't speak in riddles, codes, half-truths or mis-truths. That simple fact in itself leads me to believe KC purposely killed Caylee, and GA and CA helped to cover it up, muddle the waters. It may be simple minded, but WHY DO ANYTHING ELSE? JMHO

 

[ZsaZsa]

I certainly do see what you are referencing, but considering what the duct tape went through pertaining to the time element, the weather conditions, water, and animal activity, it would be difficult for me to say for sure, although, I don't believe anything I just mentioned would really affect the "pattern" of that edge, so maybe it is teeth marks.

If anyone on the board has a roll of Henkel tape, maybe they would be kind enough to attempt biting through the tape to see if they could tear it?

Casey also had a knife in her car, and while it was only a dinner knife, it did have serrated edges that could have been used on the tape.

I sincerely hope that those marks match up against Caylee's teeth.
that would explain JA's passion in his remarks when he said the last person Caylee saw was her mother. Anyone who could let a child suffer like that deserves the DP. Gasping for breath is such a hideous way to die.

 

[notthatsmart]

Based on whats going on this thread are you trying to respond to NTS and got me instead because truly I said nothing about LE but NTS did and really cant believe you would be arguing about me calling the majority of the Anthonys liars..

Great post. IMO

 

[ZsaZsa]

I was talking about the posters opinion. Who are you talking about?

You asked for examples of when the Defense has lied.
CAt 13067 just gave you a couple, but there are multitudes.

 

[AZlawyer]

First you should establish that as fact. Did Ca state that she was going to try to get custody of Caylee? I am not aware of this as fact, so please give me some details as to who said what to who. I have heard this rumored around the threads, but where is this coming from?

You said you don't always read the documents, but this is where it helps to read them!

Cindy's co-workers stated that Cindy was considering getting custody of Caylee and she had told them so.

Plus there's Cindy herself on one of the 911 calls:

"My next thing will be child's thing and we'll have a court order to get her if that's what you wanna play. We'll do it and you'll never..."

 

[notthatsmart]

Well we can start with why KC went to JB's office everyday to work on her defense. KC, and her backpack went to JB's office to sell photo's of her dead daughter. I think the amount was $ 200,000.00 which is still unaccounted for in full. Oh yeah, and she did say how JB would order in lunch for her, and the crew. Can't wait to see the ledger showing where JB spent all that money.

Lets be specific. Where is the lie?? I see an action, but not a lie. Try to be specific. I am not that smart.

Are you saying Jb did not order in lunch? I don't get it.

 

[ZsaZsa]

First you should establish that as fact. Did Ca state that she was going to try to get custody of Caylee? I am not aware of this as fact, so please give me some details as to who said what to who. I have heard this rumored around the threads, but where is this coming from?

One thing I found early on during my time on this site is that if you post something and there is any possibility that it is a rumor, or just hearsay, the sleuthers here will demand proof, links, references .. They do not spread rumors.
It is well documented. You will have to do your own searching, rather than always expecting people here to spoon feed you with the origin of statements.

 

[Dignity4Victims]

Plus there's Cindy herself on one of the 911 calls:

"My next thing will be child's thing and we'll have a court order to get her if that's what you wanna play. We'll do it and you'll never..."

Thank you for that very important addition.

If NTS would actually read the documents, which she has stated she doesn't always do, and listen to Cindy's phone calls therefore learning the true facts of this case, many of her questions for others which they have to spend their own personal time searching for the links, could be answered by NTS herself.

 

[ynotdivein]

This is just my opinion after reading all the posts for this thread. And it is purely what I think. If your child is "missing", plain and simple, you and your parents, don't LIE about ONE THING. You want to find your child, they want to find their grandchild, and you do and/or say EVERYTHING you can to help LE find your child. You don't speak in riddles, codes, half-truths or mis-truths. That simple fact in itself leads me to believe KC purposely killed Caylee, and GA and CA helped to cover it up, muddle the waters. It may be simple minded, but WHY DO ANYTHING ELSE? JMHO

You're reminding me of the investigator's mantra: When solving crimes, the simplest explanation is usually the right explanation.

Why would you fail to report a 2 year old missing until you were forced to?
Because you know you will be in big trouble if you do.

Why do you get a "bella vita" tattoo while your baby girl is missing?
Because life just got good for you.

Why do you put duct tape on a dead person's face?
You don't.

Why do you point the finger at SOD's?
To distract attention from the guilty party.

:furious:

 

[notthatsmart]

I understand why the statement, "The truth and Ms. Anthony are strangers", makes you uncomfortable, but Judge Strickland wasn't giving opinion at that point, it was and still is, fact.

Proven fact, and because it was already proven by LE that the apartment wasn't even inhabited and hadn't been for months, the security cameras at Sawgrass didn't show Casey being there when she lied and said she was, Judge Strickland had every legal right to make that factual statement.Also, most people are smart enough to know that your statement of "Judges have super powers" is not true when it comes to the court room litigation of determining guilt or innocence. Judges must follow the law and guidelines for litigation just as attorneys do. It's somewhat 'pre-determined', if you will.

If it were all up to the Judge to make that determination, we wouldn't have trials, lawyers and most of all jurors; the main players who really do in a sense have "super powers" if you'd like to for some reason, call it that.

I just want to go over this part for a second. I may have missed something. Kc said she dropped Caylee off at the steps correct? She did not say she dropped her off at the apartment. Where are you getting the camera info? Were there truly cameras? I mean I remember them saying that the apartments across the street did not show her dropping Caylee off, but they were talking about June 9th. Is there a security camera that is fixed on those steps that day June 16th?

I just thought the Le were trying to call her bluff that day during interogation. I never did believe there were any camera's. Hope this comes out in discovery.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I know this is off topic, however I believe it will play the biggest role in this whole trial. So I am giving my 2 cents. A Judge should never make a comment like this before the investigation is finished. Judges have super power. People just simply believe Judges flat out. Their word is gold. That statement has set the tone for this entire pretrial timeframe. It is obvious that the Judge feels the defendant is guilty from the get go. The Judge does not believe in innocent until proven guilty. There is no way possible that Kc can get a fair trial. Furthermore the Judge has ruled accordingly. I respectfully disagree with a comment like this from any Judge in any trial. I want Judges to be impartial. He may follow the letter of the law and look like he is being fair, but I can't help but think that he is leaning the states way, based on his own beliefs of what he feels Kc is. He should have removed himself after saying that. I hope he does not become the trial Judge. IMO

Ps I realize that I will get responses from posters that I am a Judge basher. I am not a Judge basher. I respect Judges and it is because I do not see them doing things like this. Most Judges are way above this kind of behavior. IMO

He made a factual statement. that is not being partial. He is not leaning. What ruling did he make at that hearing, regarding her lack of truthfulness? He did not speculate as to her guilt of the crimes she was charged with.
He said she lies. Sorry you don't like it, but that is a fact that is immutable.

 

[Dignity4Victims]

I just want to go over this part for a second. I may have missed something. Kc said she dropped Caylee off at the steps correct? She did not say she dropped her off at the apartment. Where are you getting the camera info? Were there truly cameras? I mean I remember them saying that the apartments across the street did not show her dropping Caylee off, but they were talking about June 9th. Is there a security camera that is fixed on those steps that day June 16th?

I just thought the Le were trying to call her bluff that day during interogation. I never did believe there were any camera's. Hope this comes out in discovery.

Read the documents. Not just some of the documents. Read all of the documents pertaining to this case.

 

[notthatsmart]

And she said herself that she was lying.

And, NTS, I think I answered this one for you on your visitor messages a long time ago. We should try to stay OT for this thread.

Here is the problem though. If you can just pick and choose which lies fits your story and not allow someone to ask you for specifics, then how can we get to the truth? There are many people now saying that the defense lies. Jb Lies, the Anthony's lie. I can accept that there were a lot of lies, but I do not accept that absolutely everyone on the defense side lies. We do not have a liscense to call all of the defense liars here. It is important to be specific when you are making a point. I feel I have a right to look into a matter and ask questions if I don't know the answer.

If posters begin to base their beliefs on Kc's lies, they will never get to the truth. IMO

 

[AZlawyer]

I just want to go over this part for a second. I may have missed something. Kc said she dropped Caylee off at the steps correct? She did not say she dropped her off at the apartment. Where are you getting the camera info? Were there truly cameras? I mean I remember them saying that the apartments across the street did not show her dropping Caylee off, but they were talking about June 9th. Is there a security camera that is fixed on those steps that day June 16th?

I just thought the Le were trying to call her bluff that day during interogation. I never did believe there were any camera's. Hope this comes out in discovery.

I agree that the officers were just bluffing about the security cameras. If there really were security cameras for that date and place, we would have seen a report a long time ago re: LE's review of the tapes.

But I don't believe the defense is going to go with the "dropped her off on the steps at Sawgrass" story. KC told the JB Park story on bond, and told the "Zanny watching Caylee at the Anthony home" story to Robyn A. My guess is that KC and the defense think that one of those stories is better than the Sawgrass story.

Fictional jail conversation between JB and KC:

JB: Too bad Zanny wasn't watching Caylee at your house. <WINK WINK> That would help us explain how she had possession of the duct tape, laundry bag, trash bags, WTP blanket, etc.

KC: Actually, she absolutely was watching Caylee at the house. I was scared to say anything about that before, because Cindy doesn't like Hispanics in the house.

MOO

 

[logicalgirl]

Lets be specific. Where is the lie?? I see an action, but not a lie. Try to be specific. I am not that smart.


Are you saying Jb did not order in lunch? I don't get it.

LOL LOL this thread is getting to you also. Casey did not go to the office to work on her defense, she went to the office to give pics and videos to JB to sell to make $$$ and to eat lunch and play on the computer.

 

[beach]

Read the documents. Not just some of the documents. Read all of the documents pertaining to this case.

Watch the depo videos, listen to the audios, etc.

With all due respect, NTS, your own opinions can't possibly be based on the facts if you haven't read all of the docs. No offense intended, just please, if you really want to get to the truth....you have to do your own leg work and make your own mind up based on what is contained in the docs.

 

[luv]

I cannot imagine dropping off my girls on the steps of an apartment I have never been in! How long has she been supposingly dropping her off like that? In my opinion that does not show a caring mother!

 

[notthatsmart]

It's not my job to point these things out they're here for all the world to see, but at any rate: They lied about not selling pics/videos, or receiving money for same, Baez lied about Casey saying "I will hold my head high", when Casey actually said "Get me the 'f' out of here", Macaluso's bizarre statement of having definitive proof that Casey could not have murdered Caylee (then provided no evidence as ordered by Judge S.), not brokering deals for Caylee media, stating they have not been able to see records for TES when they've had access to them for months on end, etc.

Not to mention Baez' general dishonesty regarding child support, shady business dealings, smuggling communications in and out of jail for the anthonys, etc.

When did they say that they did not sell any pics? seriously, I remember them saying they did not sell a story. Can we find a link so we can prove that Jb lied? Don't know about the I will hold my head high thing. Is that in one of the letters? or is that something this RA said? I believe that Macaluso did show proof. There are people now that searched that area and there was no body found. I am not sure who the Judge ordered it to? Were they to provide that proof to the Judge? or the SA? Also, the Judge took the tool they needed to prove it away from them. He has tied their hands. We as a people may never know the truth, because the Judge is keeping the truth at bay. IMO I think you have failed to show me a lie by JB. Nothing against, but I think this whole Kc lieing thing is infectious and majority people begin to think they have a liscense to call anyone a liar. sorry thats just my opinion.