GUILTY AK - Kristy Manzanares, 39, killed aboard Emerald Princess, Juneau, 25 July 2017 *husband arrested*

[pamelado2]

Excellent video and audio on information heretofore not disclosed. 4min 50 second video with audio by passenger and St. George resident, Natalie Beckstrom. (And she sure sounds like a very nice and compassionate woman) She emphasizes "a little girl" and some other girl who was pretty young. "Those little girls ran out of the room." Also says there were many witnesses who saw what was happening on the balcony, too.

https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/a...nts-the-night-kristy-manzanares-was-murdered/

I read that too - Kristy's brother has a young daughter. So sad.

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[Lilibet]

That may be, but according to a passenger he was pulled off the rail by a man. That made me wonder if it was one of his in-laws or security had gotten there by that time. I can't imagine if it was his brother-in-law - witnessing that scene then helping the person who did that to your sister - horrible!

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BM

I don't know, I actually can imagine the brother-in-law helping him off the rail. In fact, I think helping him would be the normal reaction. The bil wouldn't be analyzing what had just happened at that point IMO. It's usually a reflex to try to prevent suicide. It's also often a reflex to prevent someone from escaping justice. Since reports indicate a happy marriage (true or not), it's possible that the bil cared about him and wanted to prevent another tragedy while it all got sorted out. I expect it all happened too quickly to formulate thoughts of not helping.
JMO

 

[IQuestion]

BM

I don't know, I actually can imagine the brother-in-law helping him off the rail. In fact, I think helping him would be the normal reaction. The bil wouldn't be analyzing what had just happened at that point IMO. It's usually a reflex to try to prevent suicide. It's also often a reflex to prevent someone from escaping justice. Since reports indicate a happy marriage (true or not), it's possible that the bil cared about him and wanted to prevent another tragedy while it all got sorted out. I expect it all happened too quickly to formulate thoughts of not helping.
JMO

LILIBET Your are far more noble and kinder in thought towards the husband. If it were me, having just pulled my beloved sister back into the room? I wouldn't have extended my hand to help him off a "sissy height" railing....at that point I wouldn't care if he slipped or jumped. I'd be busy trying to get medical treatment and saving the life of my horribly injured sister. However, If I thought he was trying to escape.... I would tell security, "He is on the balcony." I wouldn't risk having this guy now turn his attack on me or cause both of us to go overboard.
(Realizing others will always have a differing opinion, I keep repeating to myself: (paraphrasing quote) "If I can't keep my thoughts on ice, don't get into a heated discussion." I can not gain knowledge or compassion if everyone just agreed with me.:blowkiss

 

[Lilibet]

LILIBET Your are far more noble and kinder in thought towards the husband. If it were me, having just pulled my beloved sister back into the room? I wouldn't have extended my hand to help him off a "sissy height" railing....at that point I wouldn't care if he slipped or jumped. I'd be busy trying to get medical treatment and saving the life of my horribly injured sister. However, If I thought he was trying to escape.... I would tell security, "He is on the balcony." I wouldn't risk having this guy now turn his attack on me or cause both of us to go overboard.
(Realizing others will always have a differing opinion, I keep repeating to myself: (paraphrasing quote) "If I can't keep my thoughts on ice, don't get into a heated discussion." I can not gain knowledge or compassion if everyone just agreed with me.:blowkiss

Ha! I'm not at all nobler and kinder in thought toward the husband. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just think human nature (including yours...don't sell yourself short!) in general acts instinctively to save a life, even if that person has killed someone. So I can imagine the bil trying to keep him from jumping...not saying he would.

Adrenaline kicks in, rather than calculated thoughts IMO. We either act quickly for basic humanitarian reasons (not wanting another death in the family) or because our innate sense of justice kicks in and we don't want him to get away with it. But I agree that we would instinctively weigh the risk of getting pulled in to the ocean with him, and that risk would likely stop most of us from wrestling with him on a balcony, especially under these circumstances. And certainly medical treatment for the victim would come first. So I don't think we're on different pages. I totally get what you're saying. I'm imagining more what most people would do reflexively in that moment, rather than what we think we or they would do as we sit here at our keyboards. We have time to think and "let him jump" seems to be more of a thought than a reflex, to me anyway. Maybe you think faster on your feet than I would!

 

[no nonsense]

I just listened to the video posted above. My family was on this very ship the week before this incident. We were a party of 12 (6 cabins) one floor above (we were deck 10). To explain the layout of the ship, at least in the center of the ship where we were (they were in the rear of their deck) deck 10 balconies stick out a bit (half covered, half uncovered) but look down into the balconies of Deck 9, which stick out further (all uncovered) to cover the lifeboats below, on deck 8. https://www.google.com/search?q=vie...&biw=1346&bih=689&dpr=1#imgrc=krl5C3DljJsWzM: That said, the lifeboats don't go all the way to the front or back of the deck, so where their rooms were, there were probably no lifeboats below
https://www.google.com/search?q=vie...&biw=1346&bih=689&dpr=1#imgrc=cfnNXP_tBZRH3M:

They were in the last few cabins in the back, on the side, so it does look like Deck 10 balconies overhang deck 9, so people above probably could get a view of what was going on https://www.google.com/search?q=vie...&biw=1346&bih=689&dpr=1#imgrc=qKPQQScUi6DVVM:


This may be a better view. https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...#imgdii=Q6An7SbtsDbzlM:&imgrc=xw4TwLDhsxDWPM:

And as the audio explained, the cabin doors lock when they close into the hall, BUT, if you wish, you can ask the steward to unlock the doors BETWEEN the balconies (which is what we did) (there are doors in those white dividers between the balconies) https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...#imgdii=Q6An7SbtsDbzlM:&imgrc=xw4TwLDhsxDWPM:

Here is a photo of the balconies with the door between them open https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...&biw=1346&bih=689&dpr=1#imgrc=w1yigvPbtP4n-M:

So I am guessing the bro in law and his family had that door unlocked between the balconies so the families and kids could go back and forth and hang out on the balconies, and this would be how (again, I am speculating) the family members could get into the cabin when the girls ran out the front door and it locked behind them (as it is supposed to do). If you close that door very gently, you can keep it from closing all the way and locking, but its doubtful in their panic that they did this.

 

[human]

I was interested in hearing about cases with a history of DV where murder occurred. To me the abusers are generally narcissistic or have those tendencies. They seem less likely to commit suicide, IMO. These statistics are talking about murder of a SO in general. I would be interested in knowing the breakdown of a DV history vs no DV but I haven't been able to find anything like that yet.

Although, the fact that murder/suicides only happen in 5% of all murders I suppose you could somewhat figure it out?

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Hm. Isn't murder the ultimate abuse? Is it felt that a spouse murders his spouse without previous DV?

 

[IQuestion]

I just listened to the video posted above. My family was on this very ship the week before this incident. We were a party of 12 (6 cabins) one floor above (we were deck 10). To explain the layout of the ship, at least in the center of the ship where we were (they were in the rear of their deck) deck 10 balconies stick out a bit (half covered, half uncovered) but look down into the balconies of Deck 9, which stick out further (all uncovered) to cover the lifeboats below, on deck 8. https://www.google.com/search?q=vie...&biw=1346&bih=689&dpr=1#imgrc=krl5C3DljJsWzM: That said, the lifeboats don't go all the way to the front or back of the deck, so where their rooms were, there were probably no lifeboats below
https://www.google.com/search?q=vie...&biw=1346&bih=689&dpr=1#imgrc=cfnNXP_tBZRH3M:

They were in the last few cabins in the back, on the side, so it does look like Deck 10 balconies overhang deck 9, so people above probably could get a view of what was going on https://www.google.com/search?q=vie...&biw=1346&bih=689&dpr=1#imgrc=qKPQQScUi6DVVM:


This may be a better view. https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...#imgdii=Q6An7SbtsDbzlM:&imgrc=xw4TwLDhsxDWPM:

And as the audio explained, the cabin doors lock when they close into the hall, BUT, if you wish, you can ask the steward to unlock the doors BETWEEN the balconies (which is what we did) (there are doors in those white dividers between the balconies) https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...#imgdii=Q6An7SbtsDbzlM:&imgrc=xw4TwLDhsxDWPM:

Here is a photo of the balconies with the door between them open https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...&biw=1346&bih=689&dpr=1#imgrc=w1yigvPbtP4n-M:

So I am guessing the bro in law and his family had that door unlocked between the balconies so the families and kids could go back and forth and hang out on the balconies, and this would be how (again, I am speculating) the family members could get into the cabin when the girls ran out the front door and it locked behind them (as it is supposed to do). If you close that door very gently, you can keep it from closing all the way and locking, but its doubtful in their panic that they did this.

NO NONSENSE Most excellent photos and now I understand how easy it was for passengers on the floors above to see what was transpiring on the balcony below them. The "Dolphin Balcony" ie lower level, closer to the water, uncovered and jutting out further than the decks above them.
https://nancyjcohen.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/p1000700.jpg
Wouldn't that make the water line approx 30/40 feet below the deck?

 

[no nonsense]

Thats a good question, @IQuestion. I am not sure. I believe the deck numbering starts with "4" , and really, deck 16 was the last deck that had a lot of things on it (the decks above were mostly outdoor things like additional outdoor areas with lounge chairs/bars, the basketball court, and a nightclub) . They list the total height of the ship as 195 feet https://www.princess.com/ships-and-experience/ships/ep-emerald-princess/ so am guessing maybe their deck was a bit higher from the water than you are estimating. Am guessing more like 70/80 or more.

(click on "more facts" to get the dimensions of the ship).

 

[pamelado2]

Hm. Isn't murder the ultimate abuse? Is it felt that a spouse murders his spouse without previous DV?

Murder is murder, abuse is completely different in my opinion. I think physical abuse can happen without murder, murder without physical abuse, emotional/mental abuse without physical abuse but I think physical abuse happens along with emotional abuse.

(What comes to mind for me is spouses who murder for insurance money, or just cuz they're sick of their spouse or having an affair. A multitude of reasons)

MOO

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[no nonsense]

Here's another view of the balconies of these decks

http://avidcruiser-avidtravelmediai.netdna-ssl.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/kp_balcas.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.co...ald-princess-cruise-ship-princess-cruises.jpg

They are pretty high up there. I would guess each cabin is at least 9 feet high so the height of deck 9 from the water line is closer to my estimate.

 

[no nonsense]

Here is a photo from a different princess ship, but it seems to show a mini suite bunk bed arrangement. http://princessshutter.princessonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_290537902uKRMuQ_ph.jpg All the pictures I see from a quick look online show the ladder to be metal (probably aluminum?). I did peek into a cabin with 4 bunkbeds, a few doors down from us when they were making up the room one day, but don't recall what the ladders were made of. At any rate, if its aluminum, he could have easily picked it up and swung it at her, or he could have thrown her into it. Both options are equally awful.

 

[no nonsense]

Apologies a link double posted in my post #345. The picture of the divider between the standard balconies was supposed to be this one

https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...&biw=1346&bih=689&dpr=1#imgrc=eSOCuFUO31pwzM:

and a better description of the balconies on decks 9 and 10 is "tiered". This is the handicapped room (notice ramp at the sliding glass door) on our deck- deck 10. You can see the balcony is bigger, and the dividing wall between the balconies is bigger https://www.cruisedeckplans.com/DP/cabinpics/34/reg/33879.jpg

 

[pamelado2]

Here is a photo from a different princess ship, but it seems to show a mini suite bunk bed arrangement. http://princessshutter.princessonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_290537902uKRMuQ_ph.jpg All the pictures I see from a quick look online show the ladder to be metal (probably aluminum?). I did peek into a cabin with 4 bunkbeds, a few doors down from us when they were making up the room one day, but don't recall what the ladders were made of. At any rate, if its aluminum, he could have easily picked it up and swung it at her, or he could have thrown her into it. Both options are equally awful.

If a family isn't using that bunk do they remove the ladder? It where do they store it?

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[no nonsense]

I am guessing, since space is a premium, if the bunk bed is folded up to the wall, the ladder is placed on the bed so when its closed its between the wall and the bed. https://www.google.com/search?q=pri...#imgdii=WE4FG1Jc2a7XpM:&imgrc=oCU2cbRII-wA8M:

 

[human]

Murder is murder, abuse is completely different in my opinion. I think physical abuse can happen without murder, murder without physical abuse, emotional/mental abuse without physical abuse but I think physical abuse happens along with emotional abuse.

(What comes to mind for me is spouses who murder for insurance money, or just cuz they're sick of their spouse or having an affair. A multitude of reasons)

MOO

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I imagine there is abuse in those situations.

 

[pamelado2]

I imagine there is abuse in those situations.

That's funny, I see it completely opposite cuz they wouldn't want to raise any suspicions of having a bad marriage and become suspects. Ah well, to each his own.

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[IQuestion]

Here is a photo from a different princess ship, but it seems to show a mini suite bunk bed arrangement. http://princessshutter.princessonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_290537902uKRMuQ_ph.jpg All the pictures I see from a quick look online show the ladder to be metal (probably aluminum?). I did peek into a cabin with 4 bunkbeds, a few doors down from us when they were making up the room one day, but don't recall what the ladders were made of. At any rate, if its aluminum, he could have easily picked it up and swung it at her, or he could have thrown her into it. Both options are equally awful.

NONONSENSE Thank you for the photo of the bunk bed/folding off the wall and the aluminum ladder. Now I understand what everyone was saying. And your other photos clearly show how the decks are "terraced" and the upper balconies can look right down into the
lower balconies. So the people who were watching from the upper decks had unobstructed views, which coincides with the statements made by passengers, early on. Sunset was not until 9:31 PM (Juneau) on July 25th 2017. (The ship was approx 244 miles south of Juneau and 7 miles west of Forrester Island....just establishing time and visibility of eye witness accounts.) Passengers were sending messages to their hometown news reporter, Kiersten Nunez, even before the victim was identified.
http://fox13now.com/2017/07/26/pass...illed-in-domestic-dispute-aboard-cruise-ship/
"They saw a man trying to jump off the ship, but security grabbed him"....

 

[pamelado2]

NONONSENSE Thank you for the photo of the bunk bed/folding off the wall and the aluminum ladder. Now I understand what everyone was saying. And your other photos clearly show how the decks are "terraced" and the upper balconies can look right down into the
lower balconies. So the people who were watching from the upper decks had unobstructed views, which coincides with the statements made by passengers, early on. Sunset was not until 9:31 PM (Juneau) on July 25th 2017. (The ship was approx 244 miles south of Juneau and 7 miles west of Forrester Island....just establishing time and visibility of eye witness accounts.) Passengers were sending messages to their hometown news reporter, Kiersten Nunez, even before the victim was identified.
http://fox13now.com/2017/07/26/pass...illed-in-domestic-dispute-aboard-cruise-ship/
"They saw a man trying to jump off the ship, but security grabbed him"....

Interesting! I hadn't thought about sunset being so late, that puts a new perspective on things.

The witness in that account seems to be basing her story on hearsay in my opinion. Deck 7 doesn't factor in to this incident at all from anything I've read. I wonder if she (or someone she knew) saw security running to deck 9 and assumed they were chasing someone.

Also, it does make sense that security had arrived by the time the killer was trying to jump, but that does put a lot of people in that tiny room.

 

[no nonsense]

The mini suite is listed as 277 sq feet, from what I read, plus the balcony. By comparison, our balcony cabin was 168 sq feet (plus balcony) according to this https://www.cruisedeckplans.com/DP/deckplans/Emerald-Princess My sis in law's handicapped room was HUGE.

It stayed light until almost 10 pm and sunrise was at 4 am. Lots of daylight this time of year!..

 

[no nonsense]

Not sure who was on Deck 7, but thats the Promenade deck, with lounges, dining rooms and the theater. Maybe the "they" refers to the security? Or the family returning from dinner or a lounge or something, headed back to their deck??