GUILTY AK - Kristy Manzanares, 39, killed aboard Emerald Princess, Juneau, 25 July 2017 *husband arrested*

[human]

I wonder what you mean by often. Is there some link you could post? I ask because the only cases I've followed of an abuser killing his SO, he didn't kill himself, he tried to hide it. I thought it was by far the minority that committed suicide. I'm curious now.

Personally, I honestly feel his rage was over once she was unconscious/dead. His in-laws were in the room within moments of that according to the reports I read.

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I know of cases where I lived. But I will google.

 

[neesaki]

Often when a woman is killed by an abuser, he ends up killing himself.

Do you think he thought about killing her and then himself or do you think it got out of control with rage?

It seems like when someone is in rage, they are incapable of thinking.

He said his life was over when arrested, but he was going to dive into the ocean.

Did he think he was going to swim away?

I tend to go this direction, once he realized she was dead he realized what he had done and he wanted to go with her. Very sad situation.

 

[human]

http://www.officer.com/article/10744560/murder-suicide-when-killing-yourself-isnt-enough

 

[IQuestion]

Reminder from The Rules: Etiquette & Information

Oh....Sillybilly, I am not "leaving or breaking away".....I had to take a break to meet with a client!!! (I still have a day job, ya' know:blushing He needed some tax help....hope I didn't give the wrong impression. Yikes... I better be more selective with my choice of words. "I ain't goin' no where, no how, no sirreee, Aunt Polly!" I love WS!

 

[human]

Myths about DV. Interesting

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/news/a31528/14-misconceptions-about-domestic-violence/

 

[human]

Family violence statistics

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvs03.pdf

 

[IQuestion]

http://www.officer.com/article/10744560/murder-suicide-when-killing-yourself-isnt-enough

HUMAN Thank you. Unbelievably sad and interesting at the same time. How in the world did you find this page? I have learned so much from WS'ers. Everybody brings their A-game.
Your eyes, experiences, expertise, brains and sleuthing are frickin' amazing. Ask a question, and someone is kind enough to post the answer AND a resource, too!!

 

[pamelado2]

http://www.officer.com/article/10744560/murder-suicide-when-killing-yourself-isnt-enough

I thought you meant abusers who kill.

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[Seajay]

From Wikipedia but thought provoking and I believe, accurate

First-degree murder: any intentional murder that is willful and premeditated with malice aforethought.*Felony murder*is typically first-degree.[12]

Second-degree murder: any intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned.[13]

Voluntary manslaughter: (also referred to as third-degree murder), sometimes called a*crime of passionmurder, is any intentional killing that involves no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". Both this and second-degree murder are committed on the spot under a spur-of-the-moment choice, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second-degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter.[14]

Involuntary manslaughter: (sometimes referred to as fourth-degree murder), a killing that stems from a lack of intention to cause death but involving an intentional, or negligent, act leading to death. A drunk driving-related death is typically involuntary manslaughter (see also*vehicular homicide,*causing death by dangerous driving,*gross negligence manslaughter*and*causing death by criminal negligence*for international equivalents). Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional", because the killer did not intend for a death to result from his intentional actions. If there is a presence of intention it relates only to the intent to cause a violent act which brings about the death, but not an intention to bring about the death itself.[15]



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From these definitions, from what I know about this case, it sounds like involuntary manslaughter. Unless evidence comes out later that he told people that sometimes he wanted to kill her or had tried to kill her previously.

 

[SteveP]

From these definitions, from what I know about this case, it sounds like involuntary manslaughter. Unless evidence comes out later that he told people that sometimes he wanted to kill her or had tried to kill her previously.

Kenneth Manzaneres clearly killed his wife. The circumstances surrounding her death are unknown to us at this time, and may or may not be unknown to her kids. Having said that, her kids have lost their mother, and probably do not want to lose their father for the rest of their lives as well. I am sure they love him and I would think they probably feel that he did a horrible thing in a fit of rage, or sickness, maybe even drunkenness, but that he wouldn't do that if he was behaving normally. That may or may not be the case, but I would think your kids always want to think the best of you, just as we always want to think the best of our kids. I am saying all this to say, that the kids and family may not want the family further torn apart by a drawn out trial that will make them relive every moment of this tragedy all over again. I would not be shocked to see a plea bargain deal where he will plead guilty to voluntary or involuntary manslaughter, and go away for several years, but not a lifetime. I think the waiving of the preliminary hearing today may have been paving the way for that to occur. JMO

 

[Seajay]

That guy, without a doubt, is extremely dangerous...no matter what excuse he may give. And he took her life. He is still responsible. No one else is. Just him. Just my opinion. Yet fact.


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Absolutely. I see nothing that is contrary.

 

[Seajay]

Kenneth Manzaneres clearly killed his wife. The circumstances surrounding her death are unknown to us at this time, and may or may not be unknown to her kids. Having said that, her kids have lost their mother, and probably do not want to lose their father for the rest of their lives as well. I am sure they love him and I would think they probably feel that he did a horrible thing in a fit of rage, or sickness, maybe even drunkenness, but that he wouldn't do that if he was behaving normally. That may or may not be the case, but I would think your kids always want to think the best of you, just as we always want to think the best of our kids. I am saying all this to say, that the kids and family may not want the family further torn apart by a drawn out trial that will make them relive every moment all over again. I would not be shocked to see a plea bargain deal where he will plead guilty to voluntary or involuntary manslaughter, and go away for several years, but not a lifetime. I think the waiving of the preliminary hearing today may have been paving the way for that to occur. JMO

That is probably do. Those poor kids. They've already lost their mother, now they will be losing their father. Their entire world was turned upsid down on a family cruise of all things.

Most people find it painful to have to relive a traumatic incident in their lives. And those kids having to testify to what they saw happened would probably further traumatize them. Hopefully, while the father is sitting in jail, he's thinking about this and this is the reason for today's decision. I hope so, for the kids sake.

What I find interesting is that in some cases, the children absolutely loathe the parent that kills the other while in other cases, the children either don't believe that parent murdered the other, or still loves that parent anyway. IMO

Once again, I can only shake my head and say how sorry I am for those poor children.

 

[human]

I thought you meant abusers who kill.

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Murder-suicide, homicide-suicide, and dyadic death all refer to an incident where a homicide is committed followed by the perpetrator's suicide almost immediately or within 24 hours after the homicide. Although murder-suicides are relatively uncommon, they account for 5% of all homicidal deaths in this country, and murder-suicides appear to be occurring with increasing frequency in the USA. Medical studies estimate that between 1,000 and 1,500 deaths per year. Nearly all the victims were unaware of the perpetrator’s plan.

The Facts

90% of the perpetrators are men.
80-90% of their victims are spouses or intimate partners.
Adults aged 55+ have homicide-suicide rates that are twice as high as younger adults.
Homicide is the only crime that regularly results in offenders taking their own lives following a criminal act.
25% of the cases involve more than one victim
Men tend to kill their children and their intimate partners prior to suicide.
Women tend to kill their children but spare their partners.
Over 75% of murder-suicides occur in the home.
Within the home, more murder-suicides are committed in the bedroom than any other room.


Increased Risks

Killing an ex-spouse/lover increased the risk of suicide the most (13X)
Killing a child (10X)
Killing spouse (8X)
Boyfriend or girlfriend (6X)
Friend (2x)

 

[Normancita]

Hmmmm....some interesting comments at the end of this article.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/08/...n-alaskan-cruise-ship/comments/#disqus_thread



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[IQuestion]

From these definitions, from what I know about this case, it sounds like involuntary manslaughter. Unless evidence comes out later that he told people that sometimes he wanted to kill her or had tried to kill her previously.

Whaddayaknow, SEAJAY I read the same post and it sounds like: Second-degree murder: any intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned.[13] and/or:
If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter.[14] What if prosecution substituted the words "discovery of infidelity" to "disclosure of divorce action"?
1) If that beautiful Mother was hit with an object, I just don't see how it can be anything other than voluntary manslaughter. to me 2) And dragging her out to the balcony, kind of looks like trying to cover up a crime, to me. 3) And, conveniently coming to his senses when 2 large men broke into the room?.... (I'll just keep my opinion to myself on that one)
4) Sitting on the rail (as if to jump)... seems like feigned drama, to me
5) Screaming in front of child(ren) who became so scared they ran for help. Seems pretty callous behavior, to me
(Get to the point IQ!) My point is, I see 5 MAJOR DECISIONS this man made.....he had the ability to make or NOT MAKE all these decisions.
When you look at the totality of events....walking into the room screaming, scaring off child(ren), fellow passengers calling for help (above and on the same floors), male family members trying to break down doors, a woman screaming for her life, cruise security & medical rushing to help, blood all over the place, a severely injured woman being dragged to the balcony....
I have to ask myself, will the prosecution be asking for justice and the defense promoting justification for his actions? It seems that the public as well as members of our forum are divided on the same question....Justice or justification?

 

[IQuestion]

Excellent video and audio on information heretofore not disclosed. 4min 50 second video with audio by passenger and St. George resident, Natalie Beckstrom. (And she sure sounds like a very nice and compassionate woman) She emphasizes "a little girl" and some other girl who was pretty young. "Those little girls ran out of the room." Also says there were many witnesses who saw what was happening on the balcony, too.

https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/a...nts-the-night-kristy-manzanares-was-murdered/

 

[Indy Anna]

JMOO...I don't think he intended to commit suicide when he sat on the rail. He is a typical narcissist. Everyone was concerned about Kristy and attention was on her. He wanted attention focused on himself and he was trying to elicit sympathy for himself. In his mind, he was the victim ("my life is over"). MOO

 

[bears10]

JMOO...I don't think he intended to commit suicide when he sat on the rail. He is a typical narcissist. Everyone was concerned about Kristy and attention was on her. He wanted attention focused on himself and he was trying to elicit sympathy for himself. In his mind, he was the victim ("my life is over"). MOO

I totally agree. If he really wanted to commit suicide, he would have. He sat up on the ledge for show. JMO

 

[pamelado2]

Murder-suicide, homicide-suicide, and dyadic death all refer to an incident where a homicide is committed followed by the perpetrator's suicide almost immediately or within 24 hours after the homicide. Although murder-suicides are relatively uncommon, they account for 5% of all homicidal deaths in this country, and murder-suicides appear to be occurring with increasing frequency in the USA. Medical studies estimate that between 1,000 and 1,500 deaths per year. Nearly all the victims were unaware of the perpetrator’s plan.

The Facts

90% of the perpetrators are men.
80-90% of their victims are spouses or intimate partners.
Adults aged 55+ have homicide-suicide rates that are twice as high as younger adults.
Homicide is the only crime that regularly results in offenders taking their own lives following a criminal act.
25% of the cases involve more than one victim
Men tend to kill their children and their intimate partners prior to suicide.
Women tend to kill their children but spare their partners.
Over 75% of murder-suicides occur in the home.
Within the home, more murder-suicides are committed in the bedroom than any other room.


Increased Risks

Killing an ex-spouse/lover increased the risk of suicide the most (13X)
Killing a child (10X)
Killing spouse (8X)
Boyfriend or girlfriend (6X)
Friend (2x)

I was interested in hearing about cases with a history of DV where murder occurred. To me the abusers are generally narcissistic or have those tendencies. They seem less likely to commit suicide, IMO. These statistics are talking about murder of a SO in general. I would be interested in knowing the breakdown of a DV history vs no DV but I haven't been able to find anything like that yet.

Although, the fact that murder/suicides only happen in 5% of all murders I suppose you could somewhat figure it out?

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[pamelado2]

I totally agree. If he really wanted to commit suicide, he would have. He sat up on the ledge for show. JMO

That may be, but according to a passenger he was pulled off the rail by a man. That made me wonder if it was one of his in-laws or security had gotten there by that time. I can't imagine if it was his brother-in-law - witnessing that scene then helping the person who did that to your sister - horrible!

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