Found Alive AL - Carlethia “Carlee” Russell, 25, 911 call reported toddler walking on side of interstate, car found, she & toddler gone, Birmingham, 13 Jul ‘23 #2

[ArmchairDefective]

No. We don't even know if there was a toddler at all

I noticed a lot of the MSM articles have now shifted their wording to use hedging phrases like "claimed". For example, this NYT article headline:

Alabama Woman Who Went Missing After Claiming to Help a Child on a Highway Is Found​

Yesterday most of the articles I was reading had very different phrasing, presenting the presence of the toddler as a matter of fact, like this USA Today article which reads in part: "Carlee Russell, a 25-year-old Alabama woman who was reported missing Thursday after she stopped to check on a toddler she saw walking along an interstate, has returned home, police said Sunday." (emphasis added)

It seems like the MSM is now questioning whether there was a child involved.

 

[Van Helsing]

Reading between the lines, LE had reason to believe early on this was not a criminal matter so naturally the main concern behind Carlee’s disappearance then became suicide. I’m really impressed with the Hoover police chief and how delicately this missing persons case was/is being dealt with.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/07/16/carlee-russell-found-alabama/

What happened to Carlee Russell?​

It remains unclear where Russell was between Thursday night and Saturday night, and why she abandoned her vehicle.

Footage from Thursday published by AL.com appears to show Russell’s car driving slowly on the shoulder of the interstate, with hazard lights on, before coming to a stop.

According to WBRC, the Hoover police chief said his detectives were “very happy” that Russell was found alive, and said they would give Russell time to reunite with her family before talking to her about what happened.

“The first thing is to give Carlee and family a little time to get themselves back together,” Derzis said, according to WBRC. “I know it’s been a tough experience for them. When we think it’s time to sit down and have a conversation with Carlee and try to get some facts, we’ll do that.”

“We wanted her to come home safe and sound — and we’ll hope that’s what happened here,” he said.

I had not even thought about suicide, but that seems like a possibility.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

She was possibly talking to an imaginary person and she screamed... if that isn't hallucinations and fear I don't know what is.

And why does it even have to be "first break?" We know nothing of her medical history.

I know somebody with schizophrenia and this fits right in. It could easily be some kind of psychosis.

The discussion of first break came up because a few posters said it could be a first break. I think this was due to LE not disclosing mental health issues as they have done for others who've gone missing with such medical histories.

Again, I can't speak to who you know or what their diagnosis is, but I'm saying as an expert in this field (and I provided a link to NAMI in the last thread) that based on what we know at this time, this is not what schizophrenia looks like. All hallucinations are not considered equal and the primary symptom of schizophrenia is thought disorganization, not a visual hallucination of a fully formed child.

 

[athenna]

BeginnerSleuther- wondering about the take after recent developments. Still not likely a mental breakdown?

Also, is a psych evaluation required to become a nurse? I searched for it but got mixed responses.

People will make assumptions if they don’t have all the info. Perhaps better for her future to be upfront, especially if she’s the victim of a crime people in the community need to know about. If there was no crime, that’s newsworthy too.

There’s a huge difference between an episode of mental distress and a full-on psychotic break, in my humble opinion.

 

[sng]

BeginnerSleuther- wondering about the take after recent developments. Still not likely a mental breakdown?

A psychotic break and a mental breakdown are totally different things. A psychotic break involves a disconnect from reality - say, if she went chasing a phantom toddler and got lost deep in the woods somewhere. It would be very unusual for someone to have one so suddenly without anyone noticing any odd behavior beforehand. This case still doesn’t present like one, though it’s always possible for weird things to happen or for family/friends to lie about what they’ve noticed.

A breakdown isn’t a medical term, it’s just vernacular for someone reaching a breaking point, usually from the stress of life situations or non-psychotic mental illnesses. Sometimes people reach a point where they just cannot keep functioning and if they don’t have the option to check themselves into a hospital or take time to rest sometimes that pressure builds until they snap in a very sudden and out of character way. Like hypothetically realizing that they just cannot face another day of their routine but not seeing a way out other than running into the woods and disappearing for a few days. (Not saying that’s what happened, just wanted to give examples for how it might have played out for psychosis vs a general breakdown.)

I do want to say that if this does end up being mental heath related, she deserves empathy for that no matter what the details are. Someone not being in psychosis doesn’t mean they’re in full control of their actions and acting maliciously, either.

 

[justinkjones1993]

I still don't believe this was a first break. It looks nothing at all like a first break. The fact that she re-appeared and went home makes me even more convinced this wasn't a first break. If it's true she was discharged from the hospital, it makes me triply convinced this was not a first-break or any type of psychosis at all.

A hallmark sign of psychosis -- particularly first break -- is disorganization, paranoia, auditory hallucinations, and fear. As far as we know, this is not the case in this situation. If the 911 call is released and it shows the things mentioned above, I'll amend my opinion, but IMO, with what we know now, this was not a first-break psychosis. I don't know what it was, but it wasn't first-break psychosis. Could it have been something else related to mental health? Who knows. I can't comment on that without more information. But IMO, it wasn't first-break psychosis.

No, nurses don't have to undergo a psych eval to become a nurse. Weaponizing mental health by requiring evaluation to determine competency in delivering healthcare is something that would never be acceptable today, for good reason.

<modsnip: rude>

SOME people have disorganization and auditory hallucinations, some do not.

Not all mental health disorders look exactly alike, this could have been from stress for all we know. I was diagnosed with BPD when I was 21, never had auditory hallucinations but was absolutely convinced I was being followed and watched on numerous occasions, and called out of work for nearly a week straight out of fear.

 

[T4Tide]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed, off topic>

Yeah I’m inclined to believe there never was one, which makes me wonder if the trucker who claimed to see one was either just lying for attention (weird but probably most likely scenario) or somehow involved himself.

You never know. I drove through right before this happened and also called in to describe the car/person I saw. I couldn’t remember where it was but somewhere between the Galleria and the Bessemer exit where Taco Bell is. I was 99% sure that what I saw had absolutely nothing to do with this case, but what if I was wrong and didn’t call? The person I saw wasn’t involved in anything nefarious but what if other people called and described the same person at a later time? Or even around Carlee’s car? There was no video at the time I called. Just me and my memory. I also drove 10 hours that day back from Orlando. My mind could have mixed up a ton of roadside info. I reviewed my Ring footage to see what time I arrived home and estimated I drove through the area earlier than my mind remembered… probably between 8:30-9pm and not 9pm-9:30 like I thought. A trucker would probably also have traveled a great distance. He, too, may have seen red and grey cars pulled over somewhere through the region and just have been mistaken about the time or location. Maybe he did pull his dash cam and found out it was 100 miles the other way. It was also raining off and on. He probably was just trying to help and got info mixed up.

 

[Starlet]

I don't know if WS was around during the Elizabeth Smart case, but it was a similar tale on social media, especially when she was found alive. I think that until more facts are known, no one can speculate with any degree of confidence about what happened here.

MOO.

I think the difference here was the footage. I saw the traffic camera footage on other sites that were so enhanced that they were able to make it look almost like full daylight. And it didn’t match up the story. I think that’s when people started to question the story, and rightfully so.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

A feel like that post you quoted is where the general MH aspect made the jump to psychosis. Not all MH crises are psychosis.

If you're referring to my post, that isn't accurate. If you look at the last thread, many posters called this a first-break based on her "hallucination" of a child. That's where psychosis came into play.

 

[BCSleuth]

I noticed a lot of the MSM articles have now shifted their wording to use hedging phrases like "claimed". For example, this NYT article headline:

Alabama Woman Who Went Missing After Claiming to Help a Child on a Highway Is Found​

Yesterday most of the articles I was reading had very different phrasing, presenting the presence of the toddler as a matter of fact, like this USA Today article which reads in part: "Carlee Russell, a 25-year-old Alabama woman who was reported missing Thursday after she stopped to check on a toddler she saw walking along an interstate, has returned home, police said Sunday." (emphasis added)

It seems like the MSM is now questioning whether there was a child involved.

I noticed that too. Very sloppy previous reporting, in my opinion.

 

[mfmfan77]

<modsnip: <quoted post was removed>


You never know. I drove through right before this happened and also called in to describe the car/person I saw. I couldn’t remember where it was but somewhere between the Galleria and the Bessemer exit where Taco Bell is. I was 99% sure that what I saw had absolutely nothing to do with this case, but what if I was wrong and didn’t call? The person I saw wasn’t involved in anything nefarious but what if other people called and described the same person at a later time? Or even around Carlee’s car? There was no video at the time I called. Just me and my memory. I also drove 10 hours that day back from Orlando. My mind could have mixed up a ton of roadside info. I reviewed my Ring footage to see what time I arrived home and estimated I drove through the area earlier than my mind remembered… probably between 8:30-9pm and not 9pm-9:30 like I thought. A trucker would probably also have traveled a great distance. He, too, may have seen red and grey cars pulled over somewhere through the region and just have been mistaken about the time or location. Maybe he did pull his dash cam and found out it was 100 miles the other way. It was also raining off and on. He probably was just trying to help and got info mixed up.

Very true! I bet you felt weird having driven through there right around this time. I’m glad you called and tried to help. I would’ve done the same!

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think people are confusing things.

First break = psychosis.

It is a term to refer to when someone first shows signs of a psychotic illness, usually schizophrenia spectrum illnesses.

It doesn't refer to a depression, bipolar disorder (unless psychosis is a component), anxiety, or anything else. There's no such thing as a mental breakdown in medical terms, but in casual terms, it isn't usually referred to by "first break."

 

[sng]

Yeah I’m inclined to believe there never was one, which makes me wonder if the trucker who claimed to see one was either just lying for attention (weird but probably most likely scenario) or somehow involved himself.

Did the trucker specifically claim he saw the person interacting with her, or just that he saw someone pulled over and looking into the windows? If the latter, is it possible that sometime in the few minutes between when she disappeared and the cops arrived, there was just a random person that saw a car pulled over, checked to make sure there wasn’t someone in distress inside it, and got back on the road? No one lying intentionally, just a coincidence that happened to not have anything to do with the disappearance.

 

[Telltale]

I noticed that too. Very sloppy previous reporting, in my opinion.

I mean, given it was a developing story, I think that it's a small slip. Sudden psychotic break when she had no known mental health or drug history is reasonably far down the list of possibilities.

Plus, at the time they would have wanted everyone to be on the look out. I can understand not wanting to play down the possibility of a missing toddler and a wider incident she could have stumbled onto.

 

[mfmfan77]

Alligator? in Birmingham , AL? unless she went to the Birmingham Zoo, the chances of coming across an Alligator in Hoover is very low.

Very good to know if I ever make it down to that area I just saw some people throwing it around and thought it could explain the scream and lack of other people on the video. What a way to go though happy it wasn’t the case

 

[mfmfan77]

Did the trucker specifically claim he saw the person interacting with her, or just that he saw someone pulled over and looking into the windows? If the latter, is it possible that sometime in the few minutes between when she disappeared and the cops arrived, there was just a random person that saw a car pulled over, checked to make sure there wasn’t someone in distress inside it, and got back on the road? No one lying intentionally, just a coincidence that happened to not have anything to do with the disappearance.

I could definitely see that happening. Or, as someone else who had driven through that area that night just said, the trucker may have been thinking of another red car in that general area. AFAIK he just saw someone by a red car.

 

[Arkay]

Of course I don’t personally know Carlee and therefore cannot assess her mental state.


I will just circle back to how relieved I am that she’s alive, with her family, and receiving care.

I think it’s fair to say none of us know yet what caused this, but the traffic video helps to eliminate a lot of the guesswork. There was no other car and there was no baby on the road.


IMO a lot of what we saw on the video were really just tricks of the camera. For example, no shadow of a person could have crossed the illuminated sign, unless someone was levitating. That highway sign is elevated, like all highway signs.

I‘m concerned that Carlee may feel ashamed when she sees the attention her private issue has received, if indeed it is something personal. I hope she instead views it as encouraging that the public was so invested in her well-being.


<modsnip>


JMO, that is.

 

[BCSleuth]

The discussion of first break came up because a few posters said it could be a first break. I think this was due to LE not disclosing mental health issues as they have done for others who've gone missing with such medical histories.

Again, I can't speak to who you know or what their diagnosis is, but I'm saying as an expert in this field (and I provided a link to NAMI in the last thread) that based on what we know at this time, this is not what schizophrenia looks like. All hallucinations are not considered equal and the primary symptom of schizophrenia is thought disorganization, not a visual hallucination of a fully formed child.

When my friend has an "episode" there is one big thing that he believes. I'm not going to discuss him specifically, but an example might be that he believes that government agents are monitoring his every move and are trying to frame him. He might then come up with some plan to thwart this conspiracy against him.

Believing there was a child at the side of the road and it was up to them to save them would fit right in.

And previous mental history is only mentioned in extreme cases, where they have extensive history. For privacy reasons and due to the stigma involved.

Look at what LE is now saying. This is looking more and more like it is, in fact, a mental health issue. If it were an outright hoax they wouldn't be so charitable.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

When my friend has an "episode" there is one big thing that he believes. I'm not going to discuss him specifically, but an example might be that he believes that government agents are monitoring his every move and are trying to frame him. He might then come up with some plan to thwart this conspiracy against him.

Believing there was a child at the side of the road and it was up to them to save them would fit right in.

Actually, it wouldn't. What you are describing about the government agents is actually typical of psychosis. It's a delusional paranoia that's large in scale. It's not even a hallucination. It's a delusion. It's paranoia. A fully formed child walking on the road is not. There's a difference. That's also why I said the 911 call and hearing more about her frame of mind before she saw the child is important. In the absence of delusions, disorganization, paranoia, and/or auditory hallucinations, a visual hallucination of a child is neurologic until proven otherwise by full medical workup.

And previous mental history is only mentioned in extreme cases, where they have extensive history. For privacy reasons and due to the stigma involved.

That is not my experience in missing people cases on WS. In fact, in a lot of cases, they say the person was struggling with mental health symptoms even if they don't have a history, either due to divorce, job lay off, etc. JMO,.

Look at what LE is now saying. This is looking more and more like it is, in fact, a mental health issue. If it were an outright hoax they wouldn't be so charitable.

It might have been a mental health issue, I don't know. I'm saying it doesn't look like a first-break psychosis.

 

[Quill]

I think the difference here was the footage. I saw the traffic camera footage on other sites that were so enhanced that they were able to make it look almost like full daylight. And it didn’t match up the story. I think that’s when people started to question the story, and rightfully so.

The basis of this particular discussion is based on the reaction of people to the fact that Carlee has shown up at her parents doorstep alive. Research the Abby Hernandez case and you'll see how this discussion started. We need to remember that we still don't have all the facts.