Found Deceased AL - Kamille "Cupcake" McKinney, 3, kidnapped from birthday party, Birmingham, 12 Oct 2019 #5

[Gardener1850]

Thank you so much for that summary. You were great at summarizing. I will only add that reading the comments in the live will show more details about the “tip” called in to McDonald’s. I had never heard of this either when I watched it. I felt like the reporter was seeing those comments too.

Seeing that whole McDonald's fakeout scene makes me think about how police later claimed that the Amber Alert was delayed getting out because the family searched for KM first. Many of us took that to mean that the family searched for her before calling police at all. But now I wonder if it actually means the family had people driving around the city and calling in tips which kept the police busy for a couple hours? The reporter had the suspect vehicle info and the fact that it was a confirmed kidnapping and likely going to be an Amber Alert from the beginning of this report. I wonder if the police needed a family member to go to headquarters and fill out paperwork to get the AA out? Because it seems like the AA was not sent out until about 30 minutes after KM's brother and mother leave the scene. MOO.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I knew I had seen one more live from before Chip arrived on the night Cupcake went missing. This is Fred Davenport. He was on site before Chip.

Lots of comments about the McDonald’s tip here as well. They do mention that the tip was a McDonald’s in Roebuck.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=413998736166312

 

[mjp1228]

Thank you for that, I had not seen that early live reporting yet.

My summary/observations/opinions:

Interesting that the reporter repeats several times in the beginning that it is a "confirmed kidnapping" and not a custody dispute. He says an 11 year old boy witnessed a man drive up, get out of a dark SUV, pick up KM, put her into the SUV and drive away. The SUV was described as a dark Toyota with a "brown bumper" and that there is damage to the vehicle. He says possibly a Forerunner. (Which we now know turned out to be the wrong model-- it was a Sequoia).

(Since the reporter is describing the kidnapping in front of the taped off area, it seems that is likely where the vehicle drove up and the man grabbed KM. Can anyone add a square representing this taped area to our existing maps? It would be good to see where it is in relation to the camera and where the girls were playing).

He says both parents are on the scene and visibly shaken/upset. He can see KM's dad there. He says the parents had "stepped away for a few moments" when the kidnapping happened. (I don't think that has been reported anywhere else-- later sources made it seem like the parents were not there and that KM was in the care of a relative at the time she was kidnapped. The reporter may be mistaken. MOO).

This video was before the Amber Alert was sent out but the reporter says that they expect an AA soon because of it being a confirmed kidnapping. He says in the beginning of the video that this started about 8:30 PM or about 2 hours ago. So this video is CS reporting from around 10:30 PM to about 11:45 PM on Oct 12.

About 6 minutes in there is a big commotion in the background-- a woman is screaming something unintelligible. The reporter thinks the commotion means she was found. People are yelling something about McDonalds so the reporter asks if she was at McDonalds and which one, if it was the one by the hospital. We can see the Great Grandparents in the background talking to a LEO. A woman pounds her fist in her hand, waves her hand in the air and points-- she is obviously frustrated, but I can't tell what she is yelling or who she is gesturing to.

We see KM's brother standing with some other kids with blankets on their shoulders. The kids smile a bit and play around with each other, then suddenly they start looking sad and serious again. A woman starts yelling "Amber Alert...Amber Alert... No! Amber Alert!" The camera's not focused on the woman yelling so I don't know for sure who it is or who she is yelling at. (My impression is that they thought they found her but it was a false alarm and may have delayed the AA while police checked out the McDonald's tip. Then after that it seems family members were adamant that LE needed to send out the AA right away. MOO).

The reporter then explains that the people in the crowd had been yelling that KM was found at McDonald's but that turned out not to be true. She is still missing. As the reporter is saying this (About 10 minutes in) there is another commotion. The reporter zooms in on a crowd that includes many of KM's family members rushing towards the far side of the taped area and yelling at each other. Police officers break up the argument and separate people. We see KM's mom being pulled away from the crowd by another woman. About 15 minutes in we see KM's brother crying loudly as he is put in the back of a car to be taken from the scene. (Poor kid. It's hard to tell what is going on but it seems to be chaos and arguing within the family. So sad to see. MOO.)

About 32 minutes in a train is heard going by and blaring its horn loudly. (This surprised me. Will have to check a map to see where the train tracks are located).

The reporter comes back on the video around 50 minutes in and says this is officially an Amber Alert now. He repeats that this does not have to do with any custody issue and it is a kidnapping, which is scary. He says he has been on the scene since 10:15 PM to report on the case. LE put up the yellow crime scene tape about 45 minutes ago. He repeats the vehicle info. He says police are searching heavily in the complex and all over the city. He repeats for anyone to call 911 if they have seen KM and says it is almost midnight there. He signs off with about 12 minutes left of video that just shows KM's face and name for the rest of the time.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=404297356921328

MOO.

Thank you. I had never seen this until now.

 

[Drc40]

I was surprised at the relatively minimal amount of businesses in the immediate area. A number of small shops (no CCTV), a Popeyes, a number of semi industrial businesses. Lots and lots of public (?) housing with no CCTV at all.

There may be more businesses in a different direction. But this was my observation along the main route to the highway.

Your observations are dead on. Opening a retail business in that area would be ill advised. The only demand would be a quickie mart selling beer/wine, cigs and “We Take Voucher” type places. I was involved in a economic study about ten years ago including this area. The sad thing is these “voucher” stores are scams ripping off the government and citizens all at the same time. Quite the gig if you’re willing to take the risks. Essentially you could take your EBT card into these establishments and buy unauthorized goods and the retailer would enter “baby food”, “milk” or other approved items on his receipt. They would charge loan shark type rates but business was good. Quite pathetic actually but it opened my eyes to the widespread corruption within the public assistance arena and in particular this exact area was one identified.

I also want to add to this statement ^^^ that, to me, $500,000 bail seems like a big bail amount. Very big for finding several illegal photos on his phone and some evidence of intent to distribute.

Not so big when you only put up 10% and for those wondering how that works here is some info. I’ve tried to track this down without actually going to a bail bondsman. From the comments I’ve heard (lawyer friends) they have “creative” ways to post bonds. Quick example was given to me, as follows: bond = $50K (10%). Bondsman knows case will be heard, say, within a year. He obtains surety in the amount of 15K (non-refundable cash, property. jewelry, etc) and pays the full 50K and POI is released. Case gets heard, goes to trial or whatever but it’s disposed of within a year. Im told these cases hit trial quickly compared to long drawn out murder trials. Bondsman gets 50K back along with the 15K he originally received. Think about it, 50K “investment” returns 15K in profit over a year. If I was proposed that deal with rock solid security I would be all in. That’s a 30% return.

LE always says the only reliable information about the case will come from them.
Imo

That’s rich! The Birmingham PD is solely responsible for providing inaccurate and misleading info. Their claim as the only reliable source is laughable. Sorry, I’ve soured on local PD in this cas. I may be wrong but it appears they have fumbled and bumbled this case at numerous points. At the very least, it’s not a good look

Definitely seems to be a rough area.

It’s not like the stereo typical East LA scene. Gangs, guns, shoot outs, beatings and whatnot. There are worse areas around town but it’s relatively safe compared to those. It is an area with residents who have high unemployment rates and/or receive government benefits. Several posters last week questioned why so many people were at the scene of the apartment search and why they weren’t at work, school, etc. The fact is many don’t work and ride the government train. There are zip codes and neighborhoods within Birmingham, including Tom Brown Village. where more then 50% of the populations income is subsidized.

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

I'm wondering if the video we see is their second time passing by on that stretch of sidewalk. I think they might have already been by once before to drop whatever the girls are picking up and what we see is the second time. LE wouldn't necessarily show or tell us that. MOO

Absolutely a possibility IMO, someone upthread mentioned that they could have walked together the other way a short time earlier, seen the girls unsupervised, alone with nobody in the immediate vicinity and spent 20-30 mins plotting the abduction, also a good possibility and better evidence LE knows these 2 POI are connected if that's the case MOO

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

I've followed his case for sometime now, and your country wanting him to be found so badly.

I pray he is found, and harsh justice is served for the evil one who kidnapped him from his dear loving grandmother. Her pain,and suffering has to be neverending.

Jmho

Amen to that! It's so sad that he'd obviously been taken out of a less than ideal environment and taken into foster care, where for maybe the first time he should have felt safe, happy and loved, only to get taken in the middle of the day and god only knows what after that. I've always felt this case could be solved from the tiniest piece of info, someone, somewhere must have seen little William, a suspicious person, something.

 

[Kiranerys]

He could’ve had a family member or friend put up property, right? I’m very curious as to what his job is though.

I'm speculating again,but possibly so,maybe a family member put up their house for a 50k goods bond?. MOO

 

[margarita25]

ETA: Reading the post below it doesn’t really doesn’t seem to fit at all, but posting fwiw. I hate this post and want to delete it as totally irrelevant FTR, don’t kill me.

SHOT IN THE DARK I KNOW:

Do any locals know anything about Vestavia Hills? Shot in the dark, but it appears to be one potential area where trafficking is concentrated. I’m not looking at just the trafficking itself, but the traffickers themselves, again isolating potential areas of concentration where ones who participate in these types of atrocities may exist. If she’s been passed off perhaps something is more internet based, and not your classic “trafficking” type situation as she is a toddler, so she could be in a private residence and not in a hotel, etc. Gosh she could be anywhere.

Vestavia Hills:
12 min (6.7 mi)
via US-31 N

This area is south of Birmingham, and passes through “Homewood”, also mentioned in some reports.

FBI: 49 arrested in metro-Birmingham human trafficking operations

——

“More than a dozen people were arrested by Homewood police and FBI agents as part of a nationwide sex trafficking operation.

Hundreds of law enforcement agencies – more than 400 of them – took part in Operation Independence Day with the FBI Child Exploitation and Human Trafficking Task Force groups in each of the FBI’s 56 field offices.“

14 arrested on prostitution charges in Homewood in FBI human trafficking operation

—-

Another area:

“hotels and motels along the Oxmoor Road and Lakeshore Parkway exits off Interstate 65.”

——-

Riverchase / Hoover

—-

Hotels & Motels near I-65 in Birmingham, AL | HotelGuides.com

—-

“I-20, due to its direct connection between Atlanta and Birmingham, is one of the main routes for traffickers. And I-65, I-59, and I-459 all interconnect with major ports and cities, making it a magnet for illegal trafficking activity.”

$150 billion human trafficking industry flows through Birmingham

—-

“I-20 is a 1,513 mile stretch of highway that runs halfway across America, from West Texas to South Carolina.

The stretch of I-20 between Atlanta, Georgia, and Birmingham, Alabama, which is used by over 10 million people each year, has the unenviable title of being the Sex Trafficking Superhighway, “America’s number one road for human sex trafficking.”

And business along I-20 is booming. Sex trafficking is the world’s fastest growing illegal activity. It is a $13 billion per year business in the United States alone, and 75% of the victims are being trafficked as sex slaves.”

The 'Sex Trafficking Superhighway' most Alabamians don't even realize runs through their state - Yellowhammer News

——

•I realize none of this is relevant at this moment and I’m sure there are an infinite number of areas where trafficking exists. Just brainstorming. I realize there is nothing to indicate a connection to any of these areas or activities, but looking to see where the traffickers potentially conglomerate. As I said earlier, if they’re willing to exploit teenagers and are involved in such activities then maybe...again, maybe they want to start raising someone into this industry. If she has been passed off
I would lean more towards a private CP ring type thing done via the internet.


—-


Now this is scary:

““[Some people think], ‘We’re safe. We live in Mountain Brook or Hoover, and it takes place only in poverty-stricken areas.’ But it can happen anywhere at any time,” he said. “Everybody’s child is a potential trafficking victim, and it can happen quickly. If you go to the Summit [shopping area], for instance, you may see a parent who wants to slip into a store, so he or she tells the kids to wait outside [of the store] or don’t run off, thinking that they are safe. It takes literally seconds for someone to grab a kid and throw him or her into a truck. Within 24 hours, that child could be on their way to South America.””

$150 billion human trafficking industry flows through Birmingham

(South America?? )

 

[margarita25]

That’s really great sleuthing. Of note to me was the criminal traffic for driving while license suspended. http://public.escambiaclerk.com/BMW...Details/1421069?digest=0R9gB4BVDv19nf8iTkDe1w

Link not working for me?

 

[SouthAussie]

Now this is scary:

““[Some people think], ‘We’re safe. We live in Mountain Brook or Hoover, and it takes place only in poverty-stricken areas.’ But it can happen anywhere at any time,” he said. “Everybody’s child is a potential trafficking victim, and it can happen quickly. If you go to the Summit [shopping area], for instance, you may see a parent who wants to slip into a store, so he or she tells the kids to wait outside [of the store] or don’t run off, thinking that they are safe. It takes literally seconds for someone to grab a kid and throw him or her into a truck. Within 24 hours, that child could be on their way to South America.””

$150 billion human trafficking industry flows through Birmingham

(South America?? )

RSBM

Also from your linked article ...

“When I grew up, the side of a milk carton would have a picture of a little girl 4 or 5 years old and the word ‘Missing.’ People would think the child had wandered off, run away, or been kidnapped. What people didn’t realize at that time was there was a chance those children were taken, and now they’re 30 years old and have been sex slaves since they were 4 years old.”


I know there is no evidence that we know of for such a scenario, and none of us wants to think this may be the case - our minds just can't go there - but I worry for KM because it seems there may be multiple people involved in her abduction. It doesn't sound as if it is a single perpetrator abduction. And these victims, of all ages, come from somewhere.

 

[margarita25]

RSBM

Also from your linked article ...

“When I grew up, the side of a milk carton would have a picture of a little girl 4 or 5 years old and the word ‘Missing.’ People would think the child had wandered off, run away, or been kidnapped. What people didn’t realize at that time was there was a chance those children were taken, and now they’re 30 years old and have been sex slaves since they were 4 years old.”


I know there is no evidence that we know of for such a scenario, and none of us wants to think this may be the case .... but I worry for KM because it seems there may be multiple people involved in her abduction. It doesn't sound as if it is a single perpetrator abduction. And these victims, of all ages, come from somewhere.

Yes...

Last week when I spend an all-nighter researching CP Rings, it was mentioned many many times how most of the victims are never identified. I also came across cases where children were kidnapped specifically for this reason.

Ugh I haaate this thread.

Like you said, it’s the potential of “others involved” that’s really bothering me, as well as the possible involvement of a female, and again, the different words and actions of LE.

Where I’m struggling is approaching this as a classic pedophile abduction with a female involved (and possibly others).

What is the nature of the CP on PS’ phone? Is it a 17 year old or is it a small child?

My worry is that “birds of a feather” somehow came together via the Internet. And some sicko, near or far, said go grab me a little girl. If she’s been passed off to someone like this PS might not even know who exactly this person is if he’s protected himself well via the dark web, etc. It could have been a quick pass off well orchestrated so as to not reveal his identity.

——-

Yeah I just don’t know. All that seems so elaborate and possibly impractical, but we do know that this type of thing does exist, CP and CP Rings. Perhaps one thought that grabbing a little girl from the Projects wouldn’t garner as much attention, idk. The perp could have also known that there are often unattended children as opposed to a more prestigious neighborhood....

There’s also the possibility of Georgia, TN, anywhere....

—/

If we are to consider that this is a crime that just involved PS and QJ, then would that possibly look like?

 

[Momof4RN]

North Avondale Neighborhood Association President, Rev. Zachary Watkins, says there is no doubt within the Tom Brown Village community that Kamille McKinney known as ‘Cupcake’ will return home to her family after she was kidnapped at a birthday party last week
[...]
Watkins says he’s working hard to put the pavilion back up at The Martin Luther King Jr. Recreation Center where there was once neighborhood parties. Watkins says the pavilion was a safe place and has been down for two years. “All the eyes would have been on the kids if they had it at the Rec center,” says Watkins.

‘We don’t want to hear doubt’: Neighborhood President optimistic ‘Cupcake’ returns home

 

[Momof4RN]

Yes...

Last week when I spend an all-nighter researching CP Rings, it was mentioned many many times how most of the victims are never identified. I also came across cases where children were kidnapped specifically for this reason.

Ugh I haaate this thread.

Like you said, it’s the potential of “others involved” that’s really bothering me, as well as the possible involvement of a female, and again, the different words and actions of LE.

Where I’m struggling is approaching this as a classic pedophile abduction with a female involved (and possibly others).

What is the nature of the CP on PS’ phone? Is it a 17 year old or is it a small child?

My worry is that “birds of a feather” somehow came together via the Internet. And some sicko, near or far, said go grab me a little girl. If she’s been passed off to someone like this PS might not even know who exactly this person is if he’s protected himself well via the dark web, etc. It could have been a quick pass off well orchestrated so as to not reveal his identity.

——-

Yeah I just don’t know. All that seems so elaborate and possibly impractical, but we do know that this type of thing does exist, CP and CP Rings. Perhaps one thought that grabbing a little girl from the Projects wouldn’t garner as much attention, idk. The perp could have also known that there are often unattended children as opposed to a more prestigious neighborhood....

—/

If we are to consider that this is a crime that just involved PS and QJ, then would that possibly look like?

IMO That scenario would take more than 20 min. To plan which was the Chief’s estimated time it took to plan cupcakes abduction. And there would be a clear motive which the Chief stated as of Friday LE hadn’t yet discovered a motive.

 

[Momof4RN]

Magic City Classic won't interrupt "Cupcake" search

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=404297356921328

Who are the witnesses that seen the Toyota Four runner?
The 11 year old is the only witness I’ve read about so far so how did he recognize that specific make?
What was the “damage” on the SUV? Did Patrick’s truck match the damage mentioned in the video?

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

.

 

[MissMalowe]

I believe early reports said a protruding bumper?
At this link, which shows the vehicle being towed at night, the rear bumper, (passenger side) is visibly damaged.

Search continues for 3-year-old Kamille McKinney; 2 persons of interest in custody

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

I believe early reports said a protruding bumper?
At this link, which shows the vehicle being towed at night, the rear bumper, (passenger side) is visibly damaged.

Search continues for 3-year-old Kamille McKinney; 2 persons of interest in custody

Yes the story keeps changing. At the beginnning it was a Dark Blue SUV with Tan Bumper.
Now it’s a dark blue or black TOYOTA suv with DAMAGE which was not what the witness said at all.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

I believe early reports said a protruding bumper?
At this link, which shows the vehicle being towed at night, the rear bumper, (passenger side) is visibly damaged.

Search continues for 3-year-old Kamille McKinney; 2 persons of interest in custody

THAT vehicle is visibly damaged but it may not be the kidnappers vehicle. The reports have changed to match THAT specific SUV which has not been proven to be the SUV in the kidnapping.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes the witnesses story keeps changing. At the beginnning it was a Dark Blue SUV with Tan Bumper.
Now it’s a dark blue or black TOYOTA suv with DAMAGE which was not what the witness said he seen.

When I just listened to the FB Live posted by diggndeeperstill on the previous page - the Live having been recorded early on the night KM was abducted - the initial report was a 'blue or black Toyota with a brown protruding front bumper, may have some damage'.
(They did state it was reported as a different model of Toyota SUV - a Forerunner - not a Sequoia. But they look pretty similar to me.)

I am not sure what other MSM reported, but that was in a first report from the scene.