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I smell fish! :twocents:
AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #1
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I smell fish! :twocents:
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Do we have an extradition treaty with Germany? Just wondering...
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My first thought immediately upon noticing the fishy smell....
colette
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Yes we do...
http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Germany International Extradition Treaty with the United States.pdf
Moving to Germany keeps him away from investigators and local prying eyes.
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txsvicki
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I wonder if the southern baptist association or church is sending him to Germany? It almost sounds like he's starting his old business up over there, but using the term missionary to be able to stay in the country and get funded. The Bible must need lots of help to be reworded for children's classes in a very modern country.
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Good question...
I wonder how high of a demand there is in a country that is where the Bible was first printed (IIRC)...
ETA... Yep... Bible first printed by German Johann Gutenberg...
:dunno:
Well I'll just say that as an outsider my eyebrows saw high heights reading this. If I were an insider I would definitely say something out loud about it. If I were one of his children I would be in his face. jmo
LambChop
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It is possible he is leaving for a couple of years in hopes that LE finds a suspect and clears him in the public's eye as a potential suspect. Even though he has not been named a suspect, it appears public opinion has. I don't think he would announce he was going unless he had cleared it with LE. For all we know there may be a suspicion that he was the intended target of someone's anger and his wife was killed because she knew the killer. jmo
The place where he plans to go is the same place he spent the better part of a year, in a couple of trips, prior to the murder of his wife. Bible Mission International is aimed primarily at converting Russian Muslims into some sort of Baptist.
It seems to me that the location in Niedernberg, Germany is possibly a headquarters for all their operations in the former Soviet Union.
I think Shahan writes and develops learning materials and 'she' translates them into Russian.
It seems to me that the location in Niedernberg, Germany is possibly a headquarters for all their operations in the former Soviet Union.
I think Shahan writes and develops learning materials and 'she' translates them into Russian.
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It seems like that's more their base to then get them out to other countries (emphasis seems heavily on the former Soviet countries)
What's interesting is that there are many places it's hard to get long-term visas as missionaries in Europe (some downright won't do it unless you're a citizen of another European country) It forces many to do a lot of border hopping just to get renewed visas, that then aren't typically renewed for as long as the first ones, meaning their increasingly short and require increasingly more border runs. Some now won't allow that at all.
Curious if he'll be forthright about why he's going there (or if he were to have to do visa runs, about why he was doing those)
Also curious if authorities will get any red flags waved their way about him and if that might hinder things.
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Actually, also curious if the organization has gotten any such warnings or concerns raised, as I'm sure there's no way they don't at least know about what's gone on and him being questioned, etc. .
Since with missions trips and organizations there is nearly always screening that takes place (plus background checks of some sort - though often more informal not "real" police/fingerprint types) they'd probably have learned stuff through that, too.
Typically it's quite extensive, especially for people going on a longer term mission trip or one term (vs. just shorter term ones - whether that's a week or two or even a few months) And that rarely means not putting everyone through that, no matter their title/past experience or training, etc.
Often they include personality tests/assessments, some degree of psychological testing and meeting with a counselor/therapist/or at least a pastor for assessment, character statements/references, personal interviews, and usually some sort of candidacy program - all of that nearly always required for anything even remotely longer term.
Very small organizations it's a little less common, though, or at least that extent.
In this case, however, since he's known to them from having worked with them before, it's possible that any earlier screening could be accepted (and if they had no issues w/ him prior) that then they might not go through whatever measures along those lines they may have in place. However even that tends to be the exception and not the rule.
I can't imagine they aren't aware - at least to some extent - of what's gone on since surely they asked about his personal life, if nothing else just out of social niceties.
I wouldn't think that it could be out of the question that they may find themselves getting some major pressure from people now that word is getting out about his plans, perhaps even from people also serving within this organization/ministry.
In fact, there's a blogger who's had some significant controversy in her past, and her husband as well who saw something similar impact their lives/plans. To a larger extent it's technically on him, though she made false accusations and has since acknowledged that, so it's all a little fuzzy - but that's not really the point other than to indicate it's a situation that's similarly not cut and dry as to the truth, as is the case w/ what's gone on w/ Karen - though this is also significantly more serious as far as possible charges/involvement)
Anyway, the organization got A LOT of concerns raised, comments, people saying they'd no longer associate with them, etc. if they chose to let the husband still be involved, and they looked into it and decided that regardless of the truth (which may never be known) that the controversy alone wasn't something they wanted or something that would reflect well on their mission of serving the Lord, nevermind on the reputation of their organization.
I wouldn't think that is out of the question to see happen in this case, as well.
If nothing else, and even if they believe he's entirely innocent in Karen's death - and I'm not stating that I'm assuming he is involved one way or another - I'd imagine that they'd insist he undergo some degree of counseling of some sort to ensure that they feel he's in a healthy enough place to actually be effective in the ministry, etc. Especially since cross-cultural work brings a whole new set of pressures and stress, even if it's a place you know and can communicate well in, etc (none of which there's any indications are true of him as far as living in Frankfurt) and you're typically away from your support system and all of that.
Since with missions trips and organizations there is nearly always screening that takes place (plus background checks of some sort - though often more informal not "real" police/fingerprint types) they'd probably have learned stuff through that, too.
Typically it's quite extensive, especially for people going on a longer term mission trip or one term (vs. just shorter term ones - whether that's a week or two or even a few months) And that rarely means not putting everyone through that, no matter their title/past experience or training, etc.
Often they include personality tests/assessments, some degree of psychological testing and meeting with a counselor/therapist/or at least a pastor for assessment, character statements/references, personal interviews, and usually some sort of candidacy program - all of that nearly always required for anything even remotely longer term.
Very small organizations it's a little less common, though, or at least that extent.
In this case, however, since he's known to them from having worked with them before, it's possible that any earlier screening could be accepted (and if they had no issues w/ him prior) that then they might not go through whatever measures along those lines they may have in place. However even that tends to be the exception and not the rule.
I can't imagine they aren't aware - at least to some extent - of what's gone on since surely they asked about his personal life, if nothing else just out of social niceties.
I wouldn't think that it could be out of the question that they may find themselves getting some major pressure from people now that word is getting out about his plans, perhaps even from people also serving within this organization/ministry.
In fact, there's a blogger who's had some significant controversy in her past, and her husband as well who saw something similar impact their lives/plans. To a larger extent it's technically on him, though she made false accusations and has since acknowledged that, so it's all a little fuzzy - but that's not really the point other than to indicate it's a situation that's similarly not cut and dry as to the truth, as is the case w/ what's gone on w/ Karen - though this is also significantly more serious as far as possible charges/involvement)
Anyway, the organization got A LOT of concerns raised, comments, people saying they'd no longer associate with them, etc. if they chose to let the husband still be involved, and they looked into it and decided that regardless of the truth (which may never be known) that the controversy alone wasn't something they wanted or something that would reflect well on their mission of serving the Lord, nevermind on the reputation of their organization.
I wouldn't think that is out of the question to see happen in this case, as well.
If nothing else, and even if they believe he's entirely innocent in Karen's death - and I'm not stating that I'm assuming he is involved one way or another - I'd imagine that they'd insist he undergo some degree of counseling of some sort to ensure that they feel he's in a healthy enough place to actually be effective in the ministry, etc. Especially since cross-cultural work brings a whole new set of pressures and stress, even if it's a place you know and can communicate well in, etc (none of which there's any indications are true of him as far as living in Frankfurt) and you're typically away from your support system and all of that.
Shahan has worked with Bible Mission before the incident occurred with his wife, and has probably continued his association with them since, so i don't see why there would be all the screening and testing you are talking about. And, at least one member of his 'support system' is already there.
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I wonder if LE is letting him make these "plans" ... Watching him... To see if any actions give them more clues to his involvement in the demise of Karen (if he does have involvement)...
Maybe financial matters would be needed to be taken care of prior to such a "move"... And/or other legal matters I am not privy to... That would give LE more information?
Just some thought...
Maybe financial matters would be needed to be taken care of prior to such a "move"... And/or other legal matters I am not privy to... That would give LE more information?
Just some thought...
In this video, there is a 'shot' of a portion of a letter written by, sent by Shahan outlining his previous experience in Kazakhstan and presumably making an appeal for funds to sponsor this new plan for his future.
It's kind of fuzzie and hard to read, but it says that after his previous visits to Kazakhstan he saw that there was a lack of Russian Bible teaching curriculum for children and he thus he had committed to donate all the curriculum he has developed and written over the years, knowing that it would need to be translated and adapted to the culture.
He goes on to say that "the window of opportunity is closing in Central Asia as radical Muslim groups gain in numbers and authority." He then says that "this past year alone, Kazakhstan saw a reduction of legally allowed religious organizations to one-half of the previous year."
With just a little research, I found that a few years ago, Kazakhstan decided to require that religious groups, specifically missionary type religious groups must register with the government. What Shahan fails to mention is that the Baptist groups refuse to register, just on principle. And, in February of 2012, the government completely outlawed groups with fewer than 50 adult members.
In addition the Scientologists, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Hare Krishna's have all found themselves to be unwelcome. And, the government has come down on Baptists because they refuse to register. I have found nothing to indicate that "Radical Muslim Groups" have grown in numbers nor gained a stronghold nor gained in authority in Kazakhstan.
<modsnip> And if he will lie about things that can be easily verified, what else is he willing to lie about?
Oh! In my research I also found that Kazakhstan does not have an extradition with the United States.
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FWIW, as a Baptist, we had come to speak in our church this year, a missionary family that is sponsored by the Southern Baptists. They are in a Muslim country and they must be very careful. They are not there officially as missionaries like they are in other countries. But un officially, yes, they are there as missionaries supported by the Foreign Mission Board.
That are supposedly there to help develop the infrastructure of their village, but their main reason for being there is that they are missionaries. They do work at the infrastructure project, but it is a cover for the real reason they are there.
That are supposedly there to help develop the infrastructure of their village, but their main reason for being there is that they are missionaries. They do work at the infrastructure project, but it is a cover for the real reason they are there.
LambChop
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No name calling of family members in this case. Last I heard there were no suspects yet. Discuss what has been released by MSN but do not speculate about family members outside of what has been released so far.
You all know where the line is, please try not to cross it.
You all know where the line is, please try not to cross it.
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Yes, but I've also been overseas working with missions organizations shorter term, and in order to be able to go longer term had to go through the full process.
And I know that's true with every other missions organization I've worked with, have family or friends working with, or who I've just partnered with briefly in various countries.
But, maybe this one is an exception.
To be honest, if they consider her part of his support system, that'd made me think even less of the organization than if they didn't do very good screening. He was a married man, even if he's friends with a translator or person he's worked with, if they really consider that support in moving overseas, well...that says a lot.
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