AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #1

[ClemiFern]

If a person gets held for 48 hours can an attorney get them out quicker?

I don't know the answer to your question but if it is, in fact, 48 hours, then tomorrow we will know whether they're going to charge him with anything or let him go. He went in yesterday (at some point) so today would be 24 hours and tomorrow will be 48 hours. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm assuming since the article states that he went in voluntarily and that LE did not summon him in yesterday, he must have gone in without an attorney. I wonder if he has spoken to one or if he retained one today. Surely he must have!

What must his poor children be going through?

 

[Sulamith]

Since Mr. Shahan is in jail does that mean he was arrested? Is the waiting period for the prosecutor to make a charge decision? I cannot understand this.

From: Find Law

Note: The required time in which a prosecutor must make a charge decision varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. While many state laws require the decision to be made within 72 hours, other states, such as California, require that the decision be made within 48 hours after you are taken into custody.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/chronology-the-arrest-process.html

 

[SCHMAE]

Hmmm Well tomorrow morning the 48 hrs are up , so I guess that will be an interesting time.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

It's cases like this that make one question how well we really know our neighbors (and like I've said before, this is a perfect example why I never give character-witness statements about anyone).

So it seems from the financial turmoil mentioned in the article that the pastor was badly in debt and therefore living a double-life.

Mistress issues? Gambling issues?

And maybe the wife was going to tell all?

I feel bad for their kids and the congregation.

 

[meanmaryjean]

So, according to the bankruptcy filing- they were living in a $400K+ home while making ~$80K/ year?

And he also was a business manager-type minister at two different churches? Very, very interesting.

 

[txsvicki]

Two mortgages and so much debt is alarming, but did it have to do with failing business ventures instead of something worse. The bankruptcy discharged debt and they both had a fresh start and new jobs. It should have been a good time for the couple.

 

[Sulamith]

I have found out the hard way that I do not even know/trust some family members.
Maybe worse than a mistress issue??


MOO

 

[LambChop]

Okay folks, let's just be careful what we post mindful of the fact that the husband has not been formally charged and is being detained for questioning. Hopefully we will have the answer tomorrow. Whatever has been released so far by LE I believe you can discuss. Be nice to Lamy....I've got a lot of fences to jump tonight.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Okay folks, let's just be careful what we post mindful of the fact that the husband has not been formally charged and is being detained for questioning. Hopefully we will have the answer tomorrow. Whatever has been released so far by LE I believe you can discuss. Be nice to Lamy....I've got a lot of fences to jump tonight.

Wild Night on WS... Isn't it Lamy!

I'll try to be good... Just this once... :wink:

 

[LambChop]

Wild Night on WS... Isn't it Lamy!

I'll try to be good... Just this once... :wink:

It's been a strange two days with the live streams to the courts all messed up. Makes you realize how much we depend on the media systems working properly. In the Sneiderman case I kept seeing ghosties. lol

Well, nite all, I'm going to go count people.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

It's been a strange two days with the live streams to the courts all messed up. Makes you realize how much we depend on the media systems working properly. In the Sneiderman case I kept seeing ghosties. lol

Well, nite all, I'm going to go count people.

counting peeps! :laughcry:

don't let the ghosties get ya! :ghost:

:seeya:

 

[al66pine]

So, according to the bankruptcy filing- they were living in a $400K+ home while making ~$80K/ year?

And he also was a business manager-type minister at two different churches? Very, very interesting.

Can someone familiar w. pastor-employment-procedure in Baptist churches enlighten us please?

From one of the MSM articles linked above, since early 1980's when Mr. Shahan was ordained, he served w. 5 or 6 different Baptist churches.
Is this unusual?


IIRC, 2 in TX, 1 in NC, 1 in AL (same one, 2 different times?), 1 in TN.
Is this unusual, the state to state to state moves?


I believe there were some gaps during which he was not serving as a pastor anywhere, but essentially self-employed, developing church related materials.

And then his work overseas for an entire school year?

Typically does each Baptist church congregation, select and hire its own pastors?

Or are the pastors "assigned" to local churches by a regional/ national organization/conference?

Finally, is pastor employment typically arranged thru an annual contract?

thx in adv.
-------------------------------------
Mods--
If asking if this is unusual is too close to "sleuthing"
I hope it's still ok ask whether pastors are "hired" by local Bapt. congregation or "assigned" from nat'l Bapt. org.

 

[txsvicki]

I'm not southern baptist, and could be wrong, but have always heard independents say that the deacons or elders of the church are the ones who hire or fire southern baptist preachers.

 

[tiredblondy]

This is so sad.

 

[RazTaz]

I'm not southern baptist, and could be wrong, but have always heard independents say that the deacons or elders of the church are the ones who hire or fire southern baptist preachers.

The hiring committee (usually made up of elders) select the senior pastor and presents to the congregation for affirmation. The senior pastor then is responsible for hiring the rest of the staff. It is not unusual for a turnover in the staff and many do make a lot of moves for various reasons. All SBC churches are autonomous so the hiring procedures could vary, however, this is the norm.

 

[ClemiFern]

http://www.waff.com/story/23083137/homewood-pastor-rev-shahan-questioned-in-wifes-death

This article says that Richard Shahan was held in the Homewood jail for a second day. It also says that he can be held for up to 72 hours. I know that has been discussed here and I wrote yesterday that I thought it was 48 hours that he could be held before being charged with a crime. This article clears that up and reports that it's definitely 72 hours.

Quoting from the MSM article above:

Lt. Atkinson said Wednesday's visit to the police department was not the first time Rev. Shahan has spoken with detectives. Early on in the investigation, Shahan was questioned and released.

It is unclear if Rev. Shahan will be held overnight again at the Homewood City Jail. Police have a maximum of 72 hours to hold someone without filing charges.

I do not know if the 72 hour hold includes weekends. Maybe someone else here knows the answer. I don't know if they have to charge him by tomorrow (Saturday) or if it can wait until Monday which would be the next business day. Just thinking aloud.

 

[killarney rose]

Been a Southern Baptist all my life and this is how it works.

The churches are independent in all they do, but the stick to the Southern Baptist Convention.

We dont have elders, we have deacons. Our church usually has six active deacons at any one time but there can be more that are inactive for various reasons. Once you have been elected as a deacon and ordained, you are always a deacon and it is pretty much up to you as to whether you remain active or inactive. Most churches rotate their deacons. It is not a paid position. Deacons dont run for election, they are chosen and asked by the active deacons.

Men must meet the criteria of I Timothy, chap. 3 in order to be a deacon.

In our church, this is the way a pastor is hired. A pastor search committee is chosen. It is made up of the heads of various committees within the church including the head of the deacons. They serve as a personnel committee and when they find a pastor they like for the job, he will come and preach a trial sermon. The congregation will then go into an official business meeting and vote on whether to hire the pastor. This is the way every church i have been a member of has hired pastors and youth and music ministers. There is a personnel committee that hires other paid staff such as secretary, pianist, custodian, etc. that committee is selected yearly and voted on by the congregation.

There is no rotation of pastors as in some churches. As long as he is happy to be there and the church is happy with him, he stays. As with any job, pastors will leave a church, or be asked to leave.

Sometimes a pastor will choose to leave a position as pastor of a church and work in the ministry in a different type position for a variety of reasons. It looks like pastor Shahan had done this.

Most churches have gotten away from the past times where the church owned and provided a pastorium for the minister to live in at no charge. They now provide a housing allowance and the pastor uses that money to go toward rent or mortgage on the house of his choice.

Hope this helps explain some things.

 

[SCHMAE]

Can someone familiar w. pastor-employment-procedure in Baptist churches enlighten us please?

From one of the MSM articles linked above, since early 1980's when Mr. Shahan was ordained, he served w. 5 or 6 different Baptist churches.
Is this unusual?


IIRC, 2 in TX, 1 in NC, 1 in AL (same one, 2 different times?), 1 in TN.
Is this unusual, the state to state to state moves?


I believe there were some gaps during which he was not serving as a pastor anywhere, but essentially self-employed, developing church related materials.

And then his work overseas for an entire school year?

Typically does each Baptist church congregation, select and hire its own pastors?

Or are the pastors "assigned" to local churches by a regional/ national organization/conference?

Finally, is pastor employment typically arranged thru an annual contract?

thx in adv.
-------------------------------------
Mods--
If asking if this is unusual is too close to "sleuthing"
I hope it's still ok ask whether pastors are "hired" by local Bapt. congregation or "assigned" from nat'l Bapt. org.

It's not unusual for pastors to move frequently. I can remember my grandpa 'blaming ' it on needing to spread the gospel or God called him to go to this state or some other excuse. Now that I'm old enough to look back and remember I can see that he may have been outrunning bad situations that he caused. I can' t prove that but he's dead so who cares , right? But his membership was always small because he was the old school hellfire/ brimstone and modern congregations do not want that. The more he tried to pound that line of thinking in, the younger people in his church would leave and go to another church. I don't think it's because they didn't like him but because they wanted a more uplifting message than ' you'll be in hell when the sun comes up' . Jmoo of course but he moved frequently. That was his way of life . Also he had been a tent revivalist for years........ sigh.........

 

[pamlet]

Killarney Rose .. thanks that was a great overview of how Baptist's hire their pastors ..

I would like to add..

SBC (Southern Baptist) churches are autonomous ..(as someone said earlier) so they all have their own constitution, by-laws, etc.

Often the search committee is only used for the "head" pastor. From what I remember Pastor Shahan has been primarily associate pastor in the churches he's served. This does NOT mean less responsibility .. actually it could mean MORE ..

I don't see his moving around as that unusual ..

 

[meanmaryjean]

I'm guessing that no police force in Alabama is going to hold a Southern Baptist minister (of all people) in jail without charges unless they have VERY strong evidence.

MOO and all that jazz