AL - Mall shooting leaves 1 dead, 2 wounded, Hoover, 24 Nov 2018

[killarney rose]

Early news articles that first came out stated he was involved in the altercation. I'm sorry I do not have a link, but I'm in AL and they were local to me articles.

 

[Woodland]

Early news articles that first came out stated he was involved in the altercation. I'm sorry I do not have a link, but I'm in AL and they were local to me articles.

Again, a statement is being made as fact without back-up.

After dozens of people fled a Thanksgiving evening shooting inside an Alabama mall — stampeding through the food court and hiding inside stores — one woman told reporters that she said a prayer as she ran: “Give the police wisdom and accuracy of shots.”

Police, who claimed earlier that Bradford had threatened responding officers with a pistol, said other people appeared to be involved in the shooting. They say at least one of those people apparently escaped while Bradford died on the concourse outside a shoe store, surrounded by officers.

Alabama mall shooting: Police kill Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford, then say he wasn't the gunman - The Washington Post

 

[killarney rose]

It's a fact i saw it. Those articles have since been replaced. I know what I saw. I'm giving LE the benefit of the doubt as I know what takes place on a daily basis in Birmingham.

 

[cybervampira]

Black man killed by cop during Alabama mall shooting had gun permit: father

The father of a black man killed by a police officer during a shooting at an Alabama mall said his son had a permit to carry a gun for self-defence, adding it was hurtful police initially portrayed his son as the shooter.

Bradford’s father, Emantic Bradford Sr., speaking Saturday night with The Associated Press, said the family wants to know if there is police body camera footage from the shooting. Police have not confirmed to AP whether such footage exists.

Hoover Police Captain Gregg Rector said investigators now believe that more than two people were involved in the initial fight ahead of the shooting, and that “at least one gunman” is still at large who could be responsible. Police said while Bradford Jr. “may have been involved in some aspect of the altercation, he likely did not fire the rounds that wounded the 18-year-old victim.” Rector said police regret that their initial statement about Bradford was not accurate and added the shooting remains under investigation.

 

[cybervampira]

"I will never be able to see my son's face again or to look into his eyes or to hear him say, mom, I love you," says the mother of the man mistakenly killed by police in an Alabama mall, adding, "no-one has even reached out to us in any type of way." Alabama mall shooting: Family demands answers after police kill man mistaken for shooter - CNN

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1607685122664822

 

[Woodland]

Imo, if LE has not reached out to the family for any reason, they are not looking at him being involved in the altercation.

 

[drjones]

i would encourage anyone giving the officer the benefit of the doubt to also extend that sentiment to the deceased, there is zero evidence as of right now that the man killed did anything wrong, he was the oft cited "good guy with a gun".

 

[bwt42]

"good guy with a gun" How about "guy with a gun". "good guy" implies doing good to me. Has there been any suggestion for why he was running from the scene with a gun. Was he chasing the "bad" guy. When I hear "good guy with a gun" I think of the previous mentioned case of the security guard being shot while holding the perp at gunpoint.

 

[Jennifer17]

"good guy with a gun" How about "guy with a gun". "good guy" implies doing good to me. Has there been any suggestion for why he was running from the scene with a gun. Was he chasing the "bad" guy. When I hear "good guy with a gun" I think of the previous mentioned case of the security guard being shot while holding the perp at gunpoint.

Why couldn't he have been chasing the bad guy?

 

[Woodland]

"good guy with a gun" How about "guy with a gun". "good guy" implies doing good to me. Has there been any suggestion for why he was running from the scene with a gun. Was he chasing the "bad" guy. When I hear "good guy with a gun" I think of the previous mentioned case of the security guard being shot while holding the perp at gunpoint.

Imo this impression implies total belief in one side of the story - ie how does anyone know EB was in fact running from the scene? The only thing put out from LE has been retracted.

No one seems to know the full story on what happened - other than EB did not fire from the weapon he is said to have been carrying. Nothing from a witness on EB's actions to date.

 

[bwt42]

Why couldn't he have been chasing the bad guy?

Could have been. That's why I asked the question.

 

[K_Z]

There are a lot of details yet to be revealed in this case. One question that came to mind was are firearms prohibited in the mall in question? Locally, there are postings on the mall doors indicating that firearms cannot be brought onto the property regardless of concealed carry permits or open carry laws. I realize that this has very little impact on the consequences of this incident or how this family feels. It was just something that I'm wondering about.

Under Alabama gun law, it is not illegal to carry a gun in public, but the shopping centre where the shooting happened prohibits firearms on its premises.

As people fled, witnesses reported many people had their own guns out, according to NPR.

According to Al.com, Mr Bradford was friends with the 18-year-old who was shot and seriously hurt.

It happened just before the Black Friday sales outside a footwear retailer and, according to Al.com, may have been over some trainers.

Authorities said they have some information on the initial shooter and are working towards an arrest.

Alabama cops' new explanation for killing

(Bold and underlined above by me.)

According to local news reports, “Several shoppers were seen with their guns drawn” as the mall shooting unfolded. While reports have noted that the mall itself prohibited weapons, it is unclear if that ban was ever enforced.

The Alabama mall shooting highlights the dangers of owning a gun while black

"Many people had their own guns out." At a place where there are posted signs that guns are prohibited.

Imagine that.

Hmm. The posted signs don't work to keep people from carrying guns into the mall? Or "many people" among the mall-goer population don't respect the signs? Or both?

I'm going with "both".

 

[Woodland]

First, they said a 21-year-old suspect shot and wounded two other people. Then they saidEmantic Bradford didn't pull the trigger, but brandished a gun. Now we've learned Bradford didn't necessarily do that, either.

Hoover police issued another clarification, saying Bradford simply had a gun in his hand:
"Earlier, we stated that Mr. Bradford 'brandished' a gun. To clarify, the word 'brandish' was used because Mr. Bradford had a gun in his hand as police officers responded to the active shooter situation between mall patrons."
But to "brandish" -- according to most definitions -- means to wave or show a weapon in an aggressive or menacing way.
Bradford was actually trying to help people to safety when he was shot, said his family's attorney, Ben Crump.
Crump also said Bradford had a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

The changing police narrative on Emantic Bradford's shooting death - CNN

 

[bwt42]

I wonder how Crump knows Mr Bradford was trying to help people to safety.

 

[cybervampira]

I wonder how Crump knows Mr Bradford was trying to help people to safety.

Police shooting protest blocks road as mayor urges patience

A lawyer for Bradford's family said witnesses have contacted his law firm saying Bradford was trying to "wave people away from the shooting" and the officer did not issue any verbal commands before shooting the 21-year-old.

 

[Falcon500]

I wonder how Crump knows Mr Bradford was trying to help people to safety.

Because Ben Crump knows everything that has a potential large payout in play. Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin,......

 

[Woodland]

Because Ben Crump knows everything that has a potential large payout in play. Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin,......

I have to think that if everyone had their druthers, they'd druther EB was alive. And MB and TM ...

But he isn't and the family has had no communication from LE. Imo, it's the lack of communication that leads, if not forces, families to hire attorneys. LE is leaving it to city lawyers to handle the family. So be it imo.

 

[K_Z]

File photo of Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr., known as E.J., dressed in basic training Army fatigues. The photo was released by the family attorney, Benjamin L. Crump. Bradford Jr. said on his Facebook page he was a US Army combat engineer. An Army spokesman told CNN he never completed advanced individual training and did not officially serve in the Army.

Alabama police department clarifies statement that police-involved shooting victim was ‘brandishing’ gun

Bradford was honorably discharged from the Army due to an injury, according to his parents, who clutched a photo of him in uniform during an interview with ABC News Saturday and at the news conference on Sunday.

An Army spokesman said only that Bradford Jr. "never completed individual training" and was not considered to have served. Bradford had returned home to Alabama to work full-time.

Parents of man killed at Alabama mall 'outraged' by police treatment

*Point of clarification regarding Mr. Crump (who has a predictable pattern of altering and misrepresenting the truth about the people he represents, IMO.) Mr. Crump, together with the family, is attempting to frame a false narrative/ perception that EM was an honorably discharged veteran and combat engineer. He was not, according to the Army representatives.

EM is not eligible for veteran status per the Army spokesman, and is not considered to have served. That is a huge tell (to anyone that understands how the military functions) that EM was administratively discharged (involuntarily separated/ fired) during his initial AIT training (which follows 10 weeks of basic training). An administrative "general discharge under honorable conditions" is vastly different from being medically boarded out and eligible for VA care, and is also vastly different from an honorable discharge. A "general discharge under honorable conditions" indicates the candidate had disciplinary problems that could not be remedied, but did not rise to the level of crimes punishable under the UCMJ.

General Discharge
A General military discharge is a form of administrative discharge. If a service member’s performance is satisfactory but the individual failed to meet all expectations of conduct for military members, the discharge is considered a General Discharge, Under Honorable Conditions. To receive a General Discharge from the military there has to be some form of nonjudicial punishment to correct unacceptable military behavior or failure to meet military standards. The discharging officer must give the reason for the discharge in writing, and the military member must sign paperwork stating they understand the reason for their discharge. Veterans may not be eligible for certain veterans benefits under a General Discharge, including the GI Bill.

https://themilitarywallet.com/types-of-military-discharges/

Whatever happened, EM had some serious difficulties that could not be remedied with discipline, a change in AIT, etc. His mother also said he dropped out of Catholic school and got a GED, so he has had some history of ongoing difficulties that can't be overlooked. That IS NOT blaming the victim-- those are facts reported in the mainstream media.

That *does not mean* EM was involved in the altercation, and it also *does not mean* EM was a wholly innocent bystander. The truth is somewhere in the middle, IMO. Police reported almost immediately to the scene of the shooting, where "many" people had their own guns out. (Links about that upthread.)

It must have been a tremendously dangerous and chaotic scene that police (not mall security) encountered. Mall security had been replaced by actual police officers more than a year ago due to frequent fights, parking ramp crimes, and other increasing crimes in the mall (easy to search online). In fact, one year ago (2017) on Thanksgiving, the mall had to be shut down early due to fights breaking out.

Thanksgiving night fight shuts down Alabama's largest mall 40 minutes early

There would have been LOTS of police presence on a holiday and black friday beginning at a mall known for this kind of behavior.

It would be good to know if there has been progress locating the shooter of the 2 teens.

And we also need to hear much more from the police about the circumstances of the officer involved shooting, and any body camera footage.

At this point, all we can surmise is that it was a dangerous, chaotic scene, with "many" people brandishing guns. I'm not ready to condemn the police for shooting inappropriately, and I'm not ready to consider EM an innocent "good guy with a gun" bystander.

And I'm very disturbed that the family retained Mr. Benjamin Crump as an attorney. They are trying to frame this into a racially based shooting, which, IMO, it absolutely was not.

 

[Woodland]

Bringing up EB's school and service record, then saying it has no relevance to him being shot to death by LE falls under the category of victim blaming, imo.

 

[cybervampira]

The Latest: City meets with family of man killed by police

City officials in Alabama say they met with the family of a man killed by a police officer and apologized for inaccurately describing him as the gunman in a Thanksgiving night shooting at a crowded mall.

The city of Hoover issued a statement Wednesday saying the mayor, police chief and a city council members met with the family of Emantic “EJ” Bradford, Jr.

Bradford was killed by an officer responding to a report of a mall shooting.

The statement says city officials offered their condolences and “answered any questions that they could.”

The statement also says Police Chief Nick Derzis “apologized for an inaccurate public statement in the wake of this tragedy that implied that Mr. Bradford was the suspected shooter.”

[...]