Found Deceased AL - Paighton Houston, 29, left bar with 2 men, Birmingham, 20 Dec 2019 #3

[margarita25]

You and me both. How long until we find out a cause of death? It would be helpful to know if it was, in fact an OD, if it was a shooting or a beating, a stabbing, or what.

As far as if this was an OD, determining this via tox could possibly take weeks. Perhaps it’s faster these days, idk. Maybe @carbuff knows if tox can be expedited, or if it doesn’t take as long as it used to. I would imagine there may be a backlog, as it seems I’ve seen a number of AL cases—not sure if a State Crime Lab, or who, does tox exactly. Some googling is required.

 

[mjp1228]

(Lol.

Well I think I revealed I aint’ no spring chicken when I used the words “chopped liver” last night lol. I don’t think anyone even says that anymore haha...actually do they even say “spring chicken” anymore either lol)

I say them all

 

[sraybella]

I'm not going to regurgitate the rumors on Reddit and give them more life. Suffice it to say, they are carried over here (or maybe it's people here carrying it over to Redditt).

Here's where we are at:

PH went to the bar - Which we discard as untrue because there isn't enough evidence she was there.
PH left with 2 men - Which we discard because there isn't enough evidence they exist.
PH sent a text to friend - Which we discard because there isn't enough evidence that she sent it.

So we basically have nothing. And if you present anything else, it can be discarded as well.

I agree. I have been reading articles all weekend, trying desperately to come up with a solid timeline, but there just isn’t enough confirmed and/ or consistently reported information. I got this far and got stuck...(with the exception of her body being recovered)...

If anyone has any additional MSM articles with different information confirmed by LE, please share so I can try to add / complete some sort of timeline. TIA

Dec 21, 2019 - Family members report PH Missing after the coworker that PH drove to bar with, contacted PH’s family and told them PH left TRB with two heavyset black men on Dec 20, 2019 around 10:45PM and appeared to do so willingly. This same friend also said that she received a text message from PH around midnight on Dec 20th, that said, “IDK who I am with so if I call please answer. I feel in trouble.”
Paighton Houston Found: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

https://www.wbrc.com/2019/12/27/reward-offered-missing-trussville-woman/

Alabama Woman Last Seen Leaving Bar With 2 Men Texted ‘I Feel in Trouble’ Before Vanishing, Mom Says

Dec 27, 2019 - Birmingham Police report that security video pulled from the bar has not helped in their investigation and that the two men-- Paighton's friends say she left the bar with---have not been identified.
Family and friends gather for a prayer vigil for Paighton Houston

B’ham Police: Surveillance video in Paighton Houston case does not show 2 men she reportedly left with

 

[lindaromas]

(Lol.

Well I think I revealed I aint’ no spring chicken when I used the words “chopped liver” last night...do people even says that anymore? Actually, do they even say “spring chicken” anymore either lol)

I say them too! The 60's and 70's were the Love thy neighbor years (Love the one your with) Such a sad turn of events through the years.

 

[margarita25]

I say them all

Well you must not be a spring chicken either then haha! Jk!!

 

[lindaromas]

I just watched this video from a former FBI agent on what he expects next.... The reporter said her body was found on Love.
Former FBI agent on Paighton Houston disappearance, death

ETA Former FBI states she was there.

 

[evilwise]

Do the police believe she was at the bar?

The same exact mainstream media article loves obliquely referring to as evidence supporting all kinds of wild speculation

B’ham Police: Surveillance video in Paighton Houston case does not show 2 men she reportedly left with

Literally says

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (WBRC) - Sergeant Johnny Williams with the Birmingham Police Department said investigators have reviewed surveillance video from a bar where Paighton Houston was last seen and have not found anyone matching the description of the two men she is believed to have left with.

Officers believe Houston willingly left the Tin Roof bar with two heavy set black men on Friday, December 20, based on information provided in the missing persons report.

Is that good enough or is it still somehow a rule violation to believe the official version of events that are also the most likely explanation just because it says it's based on a missing persons report? If anyone has any links with official statements that the missing persons report has been discredited or that any of Paighton's coworkers are persons of interest, by all means post them.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm not going to regurgitate the rumors on Reddit and give them more life. Suffice it to say, they are carried over here (or maybe it's people here carrying it over to Redditt).

Here's where we are at:

PH went to the bar - Which we discard as untrue because there isn't enough evidence she was there.
PH left with 2 men - Which we discard because there isn't enough evidence they exist.
PH sent a text to friend - Which we discard because there isn't enough evidence that she sent it.

So we basically have nothing. And if you present anything else, it can be discarded as well.

Initially, I bought the original story. The most likely scenario was that she went off with two strangers, probably because she was promised drugs.

It explained the risk she apparently took, and it’s not like a female hasn’t met up with strangers at a bar, and found herself the victim of something nefarious before.

I made the mistake of assuming that she was there with multiple people, and her presence was not in question.

It was simple, and atleast made some sort of sense.

But as I see it now, that account has huge problems with it:

No video of those men.

No appeals for their identification.

No public corroboration of what now appears to be the account of a lone witness.

No statement from law enforcement that PH was even there (other than repeating what the witness said, which was the basis of the missing persons report).

It’s not “discarding” something as being untrue. It’s a refusal to blindly accept what very well may be untrue.

 

[carbuff]

Imo, tox could take weeks. Perhaps it’s faster these days, idk. Maybe @carbuff knows if tox can be expedited, or if it doesn’t take as long as it used to. I would imagine there may be a back log, as it seems I’ve seen a number of AL cases—not sure if a State Crime Lab, or who, does tox exactly. Some googling is required.

Some tests do take time--but the biggest variable is how overloaded the lab is. Some labs can expedite, but they usually prioritize by urgency, so tests that need to be done to meet a court date, for instance, will be done before routine work. And however important PH is to us, it's likely that her tests are routine to the lab

It seems like what happens most often is there's a preliminary report, and LE or the medical examiner or DA (depending on the state) releases some information based on that, or says, "Nope, waiting on tox." In this case, they'll probably confirm the identity, but probably won't say much more than that.

That's just based on my experience hanging around these cases. I might be way off and if somebody has some real data, I'd love to see it.

 

[chili367]

I'm not going to regurgitate the rumors on Reddit and give them more life. Suffice it to say, they are carried over here (or maybe it's people here carrying it over to Redditt).

Here's where we are at:

PH went to the bar - Which we discard as untrue because there isn't enough evidence she was there.
PH left with 2 men - Which we discard because there isn't enough evidence they exist.
PH sent a text to friend - Which we discard because there isn't enough evidence that she sent it.

So we basically have nothing. And if you present anything else, it can be discarded as well.

It's quite true that we don't know any of these three things. We simply don't at this time. Initial reports from MSM about these things have not been corroborated. I'm not sure how to say this more clearly. They *may* be true, but they are *not* facts.

We don't have many facts, but I strongly believe LE does. Let's hope all becomes clear soon.

 

[margarita25]

Initially, I bought the original story. The most likely scenario was that she went off with two strangers, probably because she was promised drugs.

It explained the risk she apparently took, and it’s not like a female hasn’t met up with strangers at a bar, and found herself the victim of something nefarious before.

I made the mistake of assuming that she was there with multiple people, and her presence was not in question.

It was simple, and atleast made some sort of sense.

But as I see it now, that account has huge problems with it:

No video of those men.

No appeals for their identification.

No public corroboration of what now appears to be the account of a lone witness.

No statement from law enforcement that PH was even there (other than repeating what the witness said, which was the basis of the missing persons report).

It’s not “discarding” something as being untrue. It’s a refusal to blindly accept what very well may be untrue.

Alright Massy, for old times sake I’m willing to play a little ping pong with this post simply for the sake of discussion and respectful argument. Give me a bit of time here please bc I’m slow typing atm and, be easy on me, would ya? You’re probably gonna slam me lol but here are some rebuttals:

Re:

No video of those men:

Do we know exactly how many cameras there are and where they are positioned? Perhaps they just never came in the frame?

No appeals for their identification:

Perhaps they don’t need the public’s help with this, maybe they already have POIs and/or are closing in?

No public corroboration of what now appears to be the account of a lone witness:

Maybe nobody else saw anything? And if they did see , maybe they haven’t made this public knowledge? There’s also the possibility that if someone did see something, maybe they don’t want to get involved.


No statement from law enforcement that PH was even there (other than repeating what the witness said, which was the basis of the missing persons report):

On the same token, there has been no statement from Law Enforcement that she wasn’t there.

Thoughts? (Finished)

 

[Momma2cam]

The same exact mainstream media article loves obliquely referring to as evidence supporting all kinds of wild speculation

B’ham Police: Surveillance video in Paighton Houston case does not show 2 men she reportedly left with

Literally says

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (WBRC) - Sergeant Johnny Williams with the Birmingham Police Department said investigators have reviewed surveillance video from a bar where Paighton Houston was last seen and have not found anyone matching the description of the two men she is believed to have left with.

Officers believe Houston willingly left the Tin Roof bar with two heavy set black men on Friday, December 20, based on information provided in the missing persons report.

Is that good enough or is it still somehow a rule violation to believe the official version of events that are also the most likely explanation just because it says it's based on a missing persons report? If anyone has any links with official statements that the missing persons report has been discredited or that any of Paighton's coworkers are persons of interest, by all means post them.

It certainly isn't a rule violation to believe what was reported in the missing persons report. The issue is the lack of information we have and the suspicion regarding the accuracy of the sole witness based on all the things we have been discussing ad nauseam.

 

[reedus23]

It's quite true that we don't know any of these three things. We simply don't at this time. Initial reports from MSM about these things have not been corroborated. I'm not sure how to say this more clearly. They *may* be true, but they are *not* facts.

We don't have many facts, but I strongly believe LE does. Let's hope all becomes clear soon.

They are facts. Whether or not they are accurate I suppose is a different story. I would suggest that LE has verified some of the facts as accurate, some as not and some as still up in the air.

 

[bwt42]

I agree. I have been reading articles all weekend, trying desperately to come up with a solid timeline, but there just isn’t enough confirmed and/ or consistently reported information. I got this far and got stuck...(with the exception of her body being recovered)...

If anyone has any additional MSM articles with different information confirmed by LE, please share so I can try to add / complete some sort of timeline. TIA

Dec 21, 2019 - Family members report PH Missing after the coworker that PH drove to bar with, contacted PH’s family and told them PH left TRB with two heavyset black men on Dec 20, 2019 around 10:45PM and appeared to do so willingly. This same friend also said that she received a text message from PH around midnight on Dec 20th, that said, “IDK who I am with so if I call please answer. I feel in trouble.”
Paighton Houston Found: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

https://www.wbrc.com/2019/12/27/reward-offered-missing-trussville-woman/

Alabama Woman Last Seen Leaving Bar With 2 Men Texted ‘I Feel in Trouble’ Before Vanishing, Mom Says

Dec 27, 2019 - Birmingham Police report that security video pulled from the bar has not helped in their investigation and that the two men-- Paighton's friends say she left the bar with---have not been identified.
Family and friends gather for a prayer vigil for Paighton Houston

B’ham Police: Surveillance video in Paighton Houston case does not show 2 men she reportedly left with

This is the second article that states friends (plural) say she left with 2 men.

 

[bwt42]

DBM

 

[MassGuy]

Alright Massy, for old times sake I’m willing to play a little ping pong with this post simply for the sake of discussion and respectful argument. Give me a bit of time here please bc I’m slow typing atm and, be easy on me, would ya? You’re probably gonna slam me lol but here are some rebuttals:

Re:

No video of those men:

Do we know exactly how many cameras there are and where they are positioned? Perhaps they just never came in the frame?

No appeals for their identification:

Perhaps they don’t need the public’s help with this, maybe they already have POIs and/or are closing in?

No public corroboration of what now appears to be the account of a lone witness:

Maybe nobody else saw anything? And if they did, maybe they haven’t made this public knowledge?


No statement from law enforcement that PH was even there (other than repeating what the witness said, which was the basis of the missing persons report):

On the same token, there has been no statement from Law Enforcement that she wasn’t there.

Thoughts? (Finished)

All plausible explanations, but not enough to make me comfortable believing the original narrative.

It’s not as solid as I originally believed it to be.

 

[Momma2cam]

I recall either an earlier article or video of a LEO stating something about not knowing if she was at the bar at all. Does anyone else remember this or have a link?

 

[margarita25]

All plausible explanations, but not enough to make me comfortable believing the original narrative.

It’s not as solid as I originally believed it to be.

That’s all you got? JK!!!!!!!

Nah, I hear ya, but I’m not comfortable enough to completely disbelieve the account yet, only because of this whole “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” thing (thanks for that one @evilwise). Again, I know nothing that’s not on MSM and in the rumor mills re: the co-worker, so maybe there are pieces to which I’m not privy.

I won’t be surprised if the narrative turns out to not be true, BUT I also will not be surprised if it DOES turn out to be true.

Thanks for your response.

 

[MassGuy]

That’s all you got? JK!!!!!!!

Nah, I hear ya, but I’m not comfortable enough to completely disbelieve the account yet, only because of this whole “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” (thanks for that one @evilwise). Again, I know nothing that’s not on MSM and in the rumor mills, so maybe there are pieces I’m not privy to.

I won’t be surprised if the narrative turns out to not be true, BUT I also will not be surprised if it DOES turn out to be true.

Thanks for your response.

It just seems made up.

She leaves with two huge black men.

She sends a lone, vague text, providing absolutely no identifying information (car, details about the men, where they are going, etc).

Her friend isn’t concerned enough to check her messages until morning.

Amazingly, there is no video of these guys.

It just bothers me.

 

[514Caledonia]

I not going to go find the post in thread 2, but I don't have Paighton actively drug-seeking just to blame/ get the co worker involved. The post said everyone was putting OD in to blame co-worker. There's a few other reasons and people in my head. And none of the people are heavy set black men

* My phone won't text that phrase like that either. And I'm still stuck on idk being something a younger person texts...

Edited to add: idk comes up all lowercase if it's not the first word. I'm thinking a change of mind in wording and the first word or so was deleted before sending

Given the length of heroin addiction (I don't remember if it's been mentioned), but an addict can act younger than their age based on years of addiction and/or damage to their brain.

<modsnip>