GUILTY AL - Summer Moody, 17, fatally shot in Gravine Island burglary attempt, 15 April 2013

  • #121
Hey, I'm not mad at you! Really! Just stating my take on things...and yes, angry, but angry at the Sheriff & DA & especially the shooter, but not at you.

That judge is an idiot. Seriously. 'Stand your ground' laws do not authorize you to chase someone down and murder them. That is not defending yourself. That is forcing a confrontation. Until these past few years, all precedents point to such an action as being the root cause of any injuries or deaths, not the interceding events that were precipitated by the contact. Just like Felony Murder. Of course, it doesn't surprise me that such a ruling would come out of the legal cesspool known as Florida, where due process no longer exists in any rational form. ("oh, you saved the courts time and killed one of them there criminals? Good on you!")

Regardless of the criminal acts of the idiot teens, they were not threatening those men, were no longer engaged in criminal activity at the time of contact, did not engage with the men, and were on public land when contact was made. The men had the ability to call the authorities, observe & wait. Instead they ran off half-cocked with lethal weapons, tried to be action heroes, and then wondered why someone got hurt.

So yes, even going by the strange wording of 'stand your ground', it would still be an illegal & irresponsible act regardless of who was shot. And regardless, it should be up to a jury to decide whether these 'stand your ground' laws cover incidents with contradictory testimony/evidence. And one still may - if enough noise is made, like in Trayvon's case. As many of these cases need to be taken to the courts by the DAs as possible, so that one of them can reach a high enough level for long established precedent to be reaffirmed.

I do have to ask why you feel it necessary to ask me about age & race. Really...I don't want to take offense, but the wording there seems to be making implications about my motives that are...well, not very nice...

All JMO and not intended to be taken personally.

My post wasn't intended for just one person so I am sorry you took offense? It was a question for everyone. It's a legitimate question? If one of the boys were shot would it be different? Or if Summer wasn't pretty? Young? If she was of a different race?

I think my curiosity comes from paying attention to Summer and Trayvon's cases. There are clear differences, but I think it's really interesting to look at them side by side because of those differences. It's really amazing to see. Very eye opening.

MOO
 
  • #122
It just always gets to me when someone who is committing a crime and gets caught or hurt some suddenly wants the law to defend them. They are instantly the victim. They disregard the law and don't care how it hurts anyone else (including their families) but then they want to turn around and use the laws (which they did not respect) to suddenly protect them.

I'm sorry the young girl's life ended so tragically but it was a direct result of her and the boys choices. They had plenty of intent to break numerous laws. They brought guns to commit a crime with.

The residents were there lawfully. Their camp might have been the next one broken into and they may been shot and killed had they caught the kids in a situation where the kids were cornered. They were in a remote area where police response would take a while to get there (by boat, I think). So they shot warning shots with NO intent to hurt anyone. Unfortunately someone got hurt but the people in the wrong were the criminals.

The kids had the intent to break numerous laws with no regard. The campers had NO intent of hurting anyone.

I believe that nobody should be shooting their gun unless they can see the target. In this case the man couldn't see what he was shooting at. How is that self-defense or defense of property?
 
  • #123
My post wasn't intended for just one person so I am sorry you took offense? It was a question for everyone. It's a legitimate question? If one of the boys were shot would it be different? Or if Summer wasn't pretty? Young? If she was of a different race?

I think my curiosity comes from paying attention to Summer and Trayvon's cases. There are clear differences, but I think it's really interesting to look at them side by side because of those differences. It's really amazing to see. Very eye opening.

MOO

Ah, okay! That's why I asked before taking it personally. No harm done.

For me personally, the answer is that it wouldn't matter, as I have a very strong hatred for vigilantes, lynch mobs & the abuse of firearms (has anyone else noted the NRA's silence on this one?). If the victim was a purple people eater I'd still want to see the shooter get the due process he stole from his victim.

All JMO
 
  • #124
ITA with Skewed View.I don't understand that so many posters seem to approve Vigilante justice.It's exactly what this is IMO.There was no reason for shots to be fired IMO,the residents were not being threatened.
I don't think it's comparable to the Trayvon case but IMO in that case if Trayvon would have been shot down by Zimmerman after commiting an actual crime it would have been just as wrong.Self defense laws are not in effect so people can go around avenging crimes.I understand the residents probably did not mean to hurt anyone but everytime you fire a weapon it's a possibility.
Now a girl is dead.They need to charge that guy with involuntary manslaughter.

To be honest, I'd be satisfied with reckless endangerment & a few related firearms charges. That wouldn't really reflect the seriousness of the consequences of his actions, but it would be more likely to make it out of a preliminary hearing.

All JMO
 
  • #125
It just always gets to me when someone who is committing a crime and gets caught or hurt some suddenly wants the law to defend them. They are instantly the victim. They disregard the law and don't care how it hurts anyone else (including their families) but then they want to turn around and use the laws (which they did not respect) to suddenly protect them.

I'm sorry the young girl's life ended so tragically but it was a direct result of her and the boys choices. They had plenty of intent to break numerous laws. They brought guns to commit a crime with.

The residents were there lawfully. Their camp might have been the next one broken into and they may been shot and killed had they caught the kids in a situation where the kids were cornered. They were in a remote area where police response would take a while to get there (by boat, I think). So they shot warning shots with NO intent to hurt anyone. Unfortunately someone got hurt but the people in the wrong were the criminals.

The kids had the intent to break numerous laws with no regard. The campers had NO intent of hurting anyone.

First off, even the camper's testimony shows that the boys were not armed...their boat was. Contrary to the implications made by the Sheriff, their (legal) weapons were stowed on the boat at the time of the shooting. As for the supposed illegal weapon, there has yet to be any indication of what its whereabouts were at the time of the shooting (or at any other time), but we know from the mouths of the campers themselves that it wasn't on the two fools they confronted.

Second - testimony indicates that the campers tracked the teens away from the campsites and onto public land. At the point of contact, all of them were there lawfully. Let me ask you this - what if the campers had tracked the wrong teens down (say, a group that really were just out having some fun), and events followed the same course? This is why LE aggressively clamps down on this type of behavior (when the legal system is working as it's supposed to).

Third - due process. We are all entitled to it. The Constitution guarantees that right to all of us, regardless of what we are accused of doing. It is there not just to protect the rights of criminals, but most especially to protect the rights of the innocent. Until you have seen your day in court, you are to be treated as if you are a likely innocent. At least, that's how it's supposed to work - this past decade hasn't been kind to the concept, I'm sad to say. Saying that homicide is okay, regardless of circumstance, because a person is accused of being a criminal...

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the teens are indeed innocent (I am in fact still PO'd that they weren't charged when that search warrant was executed & at least one of them was caught red handed) - but that is for the courts to decide, not individual citizens armed with guns & righteous indignation.

This is not like those cases of burglars being shot in the home they are invading. Those types of cases are ones where I (and more importantly, legal precedent) come down wholeheartedly on the side of defense of self & property. These types of cases, involving the tracking/chasing of suspected criminals down by private citizens - if enough of these incidents happen, we are going to see laws that will infringe upon the rights of those legitimately defending their homes, not to mention yet more limitations of the use of firearms. And that is why we need to be so careful not to just shrug our shoulders and say 'it's just a criminal, it's all good'.

All JMO
 
  • #126
I believe if the shot randomly killed an innocent person, they would be facing charges. It didn't. It shot one of the burglars. If you followed your neighbor, who stole your property and you shot him... I believe it would be justified under the law. He was commiting a crime. You were protecting your property. Now if you randomly shot an innocent person, I would guess you would be charged?

Vigilate justice is what happened in the Trayvon Martin case. GZ took out his aggressions on an innocent kid who was doing nothing but walking home because kids who looked like him had been accused of robbing homes. Trayvon had every right to be where he was at. The kids in this case had no right to be where they were as their intentions were obvious -- they were only there to commit a crime.

MOO

First of all, I don't know how their intentions were obvious? It's not alleged these teens were shooting at anyone, or that these men saw any property being stolen. For all they knew, these teens could have been out there to have some fun.
Second of all this girl was not fighting with anyone, attacking anyone, shooting at anyone. She was hiding in the bushes.
Yes, she was hanging with the wrong crowd by did she deserve a death penalty for that?
These teenagers were not inside any dwelling. They were not breaking into the cabin these adult men were at. In fact these adult men had to come over to where the teenagers were.
 
  • #127
http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/may/07/loxley-teen-burglary-investigation-ar-3748409/

video at link....

[quotenvestigators have tied the two teens- who were with Summer Moody the night she was shot on Gravine Island- to break-ins at a school, a post office drop box, a business and several residences.

Police say Byrd and Tyree are responsible for stealing or damaging 30-thousand dollars worth of property in the Stapleton community.

None of the property has been recovered, but some of it was tracked to pawn shops in Bay Minette.][/quote]
 
  • #128
http://www.local15tv.com/news/local...nd-Gravine-Island/eUKBy6b17kSDDNiVh2KntQ.cspx

Police say the items stolen and the property damage add up to more than $30,000. "In one instance this ring of burglars flooded one of the homes they broke into," said Lt.Doug Phillips with Loxley Police. Police are looking into who pawned some of the items. Alabama law requires anyone who pawns to be 18 years of age or older. Police say to expect more arrests to made soon.


http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/may/08/adults-could-be-charged-loxley-burglary-ring-ar-3755263/

LOXLEY, Alabama --
Investigators in Loxley say Scott Byrd and Dylan Tyree had help "fencing" thousands of dolalrs worth of stolen property at several pawn shops.

Police says two adults believed to be working with the teens sold the loot- they could be charged with receiving stolen property.

Under Alabama law- minors are not allowed to pawn or sell merchandise at pawn shops. Sellers have to be at least 19-years old and pawn brokers are required to check and document identification.
 
  • #129
Because the reason they fired the gun was to protect property. The kids were commiting a crime. Obviously they were well on their way to becoming career criminals. It was the life they chose. Summer, unfortunately, is not innocent either. She was commiting a crime side-by-side with them that night. Did she deserve to die? No! But she did and her actions that night, along with those who she was with, caused it.

A woman who fires a gun into a ceiling, for no other reason than the be firing a gun, is firing into a dwelling. It's a crime.

There's a big difference.

MOO

Well that woman says she was doing it in self-defense. I don't understand why this woman can fire a WARNING SHOT that killed no one can get 20 years, whereas this guy fired a warning shot that killed a young lady and DA says he is free as a bird and can't be charged with anything.

"Saying he had no discretion under state law, a judge sentenced a Jacksonville, Florida, woman to 20 years in prison Friday for firing a warning shot in an effort to scare off her abusive husband."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
 
  • #130
http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/may/07/loxley-teen-burglary-investigation-ar-3748409/

video at link....

[quotenvestigators have tied the two teens- who were with Summer Moody the night she was shot on Gravine Island- to break-ins at a school, a post office drop box, a business and several residences.

Police say Byrd and Tyree are responsible for stealing or damaging 30-thousand dollars worth of property in the Stapleton community.

None of the property has been recovered, but some of it was tracked to pawn shops in Bay Minette.]
[/QUOTE]

So, once more I'm left wondering - if these two have been acting so brazenly & dangerously, have committed such serious crimes, then why hadn't the Sheriff's Office & the DA gotten off their butts & dealt with them before someone got killed? Seriously, going by the accusations, if Summer hadn't been killed, someone else would have been, sooner or later. Most likely some poor elderly homeowner caught at home during one of these burglaries. According to their own testimony, investigators knew enough about at least one of these guys to get a Search Warrant - a Warrant that allegedly turned up stolen property - yet they only gave him a warning? Why hasn't the media questioned this?:banghead:

All JMO
 
  • #131
If those kids were born and raised in Alabama then they darn well knew the risks! They KNEW they could get shot for their actions and yet they thought it was fun and kept doing it anyway.

In rural areas of the south people are heavily armed and they take tresspassing very seriously. Common sense says you don't mess with other people's property, you don't go near other people's homes if they don't know who you are. The first reaction for many folks around here is to grab a gun if a stranger enters the gate or knocks on the door. If you have to go up to a stranger's home you stay in your car and honk the horn to announce your arrival.

I know other areas of the country are different, but these kids were in Alabama and they were aware of the situation. As far as a human life being worth more than power tools....well that judgement call is on the thief not the victim...if they think their life is worth more than power tools then perhaps they shouldn't put their life in jeopardy for something of so little value.
 
  • #132
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  • #134
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  • #136
Glad to see this thread bumped. In less than a year we have had four cases where 5 young people have lost their lives and in every case the shooter is/has claimed self defense.

One of the cases has been locked here at Webslueths, but one young life was lost.

We have the Thanksgiving Day shooting thread where two young lives were lost, here in Crime in the News section.

We have the case, again here in the Crime in the News section, where a young man lost his life apparantly over some loud music.

And we have this case, where one young life was lost.

I think having these cases to look at and compare to one another is actually a good thing. Although the cases are clearly different from one another, they all share that one thing in common. The claim of self defense by the actual shooter.
 
  • #137
http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/16/gravine-island-footchase-turns-violent-ar-3618749/

This article has a quote from the deputy-

"Deputy Chief Charlie Jones tells News 5 three men from Mobile County witnessed Moody and three boys burglarize a building then chased them across the island."

So at 4 am the 3 men witnessed them burglarize a camp that did not belong to the 3 men and they chased them across the island and shot at them? Wow, all I can say is wow... I am all for protecting my own property rights and reporting suspected burglars to the authorities, but this appears to be getting outrageous..
JMO

The fisherman will be legally responsible for this. You can not chase someone and then shoot them. You can not even shoot someone in the process of burglarizing your own home unless they are risking your life or harming you in some way. The only way these fishermen would be justified would be if the teens had weapons and they were in fear for their lives, which would still be unjustified if they chased them.

I am mega pro-gun and pro-self-defense but at least with the information I have read so far from the media this does not sound right and laws have been broken.
 
  • #138
  • #139
"The Baldwin County Sheriff's Office said William "Nick" Hearn had a rifle and fired one of the warning shots that fateful night on the island. Hearn is a convicted felon and under federal law, it is illegal for him to have ammunition, much less a gun."

Very bizarre that the three boys are charged with murder, but the convicted felon who fired a shot isnt charged with anything. Jmo

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/mobile_county/teens-attorneys-remain-mum-on-charges
 
  • #140
So DA says teens can be charged with murder? At the same time she says there was no murder here, but a tragic accident? Maybe someone can explain to me how in the world does that work.


"(BAY MINETTE, Ala.) The teenagers who were with Summer Moody when she was shot in the head on Gravine Island could be charged with murder."

http://www.local15tv.com/news/local...arged-with-Murder/pg7LiJTowkGix_hdPY_9cg.cspx

Anytime another burglar is killed during a robbery attempt, it is the other burglar's responsibility. They were committed a crime and therefore take on responsibility, therefore murder. I have read more on the case that the 2 men fired warning shots away from the boys and didn't know the girl was there. I do not know why you would fire into the dark like that. However, obviously the men were found within their rights so it is the boys responsibility and bad decisions.
 

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