Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[jjenny]

I keep meaning to ask: Why did HG remove the casing from the gun after the shooting? It seems like everything, including guns and ammo, should have been left untouched for LE to inspect. Is there a legitimate reason for handling the gun? Could there have been additional bullets in the gun?

The Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez) was given the prop gun after it was fired by Actor Alec Baldwin, she then took the spent casing out of the prop-gun. When deputies arrived on scene, the prop-gun was handed to arriving deputies by Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez).
‘Rust’: Released Affidavit Reveals Details About Fatal Shooting – Read It – Deadline
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/rust-oct-27-search-warrant_Redacted.pdf

I believe AD claims he told her to check what was in the gun. That's how they found four dummy rounds and a casing from a live round that killed the cinematographer.

 

[MsMarple]

I believe AD claims he told her to check what was in the gun. That's how they found four dummy rounds and a casing from a live round that killed the cinematographer.

Thanks! So while two people were bleeding and medics were attending and people were calling 911 the AD and armorer were opening the gun and removing casings. I don't know what normal protocol would be but just from a non professional point of view it seems like handling casings would be a very low priority. At the least it would obscure any fingerprints indicating who had loaded the bullet in the first place. Which is why I'm a bit suspicious. All MOO though.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I keep meaning to ask: Why did HG remove the casing from the gun after the shooting? It seems like everything, including guns and ammo, should have been left untouched for LE to inspect. Is there a legitimate reason for handling the gun? Could there have been additional bullets in the gun?

The Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez) was given the prop gun after it was fired by Actor Alec Baldwin, she then took the spent casing out of the prop-gun. When deputies arrived on scene, the prop-gun was handed to arriving deputies by Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez).
‘Rust’: Released Affidavit Reveals Details About Fatal Shooting – Read It – Deadline
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/rust-oct-27-search-warrant_Redacted.pdf

I've been wondering the same thing. Also, I wonder if the casing might have had fingerprints on it which could have been disturbed and may unreadable by HG. Oops! I just saw you posted the same above @MsMarple

 

[CrimeAway]

Anderson Cooper interviews the Sheriff and the DA

Anderson Cooper 360

At about 8 minutes into this piece, a master armourer, Larry Zanoff, is interviewd. He gives a good explanation of the difference between
-blank rounds (flash/bang), and
-dummy rounds (inert, but looks real).
He also explains the "hot gun" and "cold gun" industry lingo.

Anderson Cooper 360

ETA armourer's name: Larry Zanoff (& formatting)

larry zanoff - Google Search..

 

[MsMarple]

I've been wondering the same thing. Also, I wonder if the casing might have had fingerprints on it which could have been disturbed and may unreadable by HG. Oops! I just saw you posted the same above @MsMarple

Great minds, @LaborDayRN!

IMO someone's going to give LE the information about live rounds so a smudged fingerprint won't mean much anyway. There's no incentive for anyone on the set to cover for someone or lie IMO.

 

[Dotta]

I keep meaning to ask: Why did HG remove the casing from the gun after the shooting? It seems like everything, including guns and ammo, should have been left untouched for LE to inspect. Is there a legitimate reason for handling the gun? Could there have been additional bullets in the gun?

The Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez) was given the prop gun after it was fired by Actor Alec Baldwin, she then took the spent casing out of the prop-gun. When deputies arrived on scene, the prop-gun was handed to arriving deputies by Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez).
‘Rust’: Released Affidavit Reveals Details About Fatal Shooting – Read It – Deadline
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/rust-oct-27-search-warrant_Redacted.pdf

I ask the same question!
She shouldnt have removed anything! It was tampering with evidence in my view.

 

[CrimeAway]

There's no incentive for anyone on the set to cover for someone or lie IMO.

Unless they themselves were negligent, or brought/stored/used live rounds on set... Jmo

Edited to trim quote to relevant part.

 

[jjenny]

At about 8 minutes into this piece, a master armourer is interviewd. He gives a good explanation of the difference between blank rounds (flash/bang), and dummy rounds (looks real, but inert). He also explains the "hot gun" and "cold gun" industry lingo.

Anderson Cooper 360

Yep, blanks are the rounds that don't have a bullet, but create noise and flash when fired. Dummy rounds are "fake" rounds that look like live ammunition but are harmless, don't create noise or bang.
So for practicing of the scene, Baldwin's gun was apparently supposed to contain dummy rounds. Dummy rounds had holes on the side, to distinguish from live rounds.
Without completely unloading the gun, it would likely be impossible to check if all rounds had holes in their sides.

 

[CrimeAway]

@jjenny and the master armourer (Larry Zanoff) reiterated that under NO circumstances are live rounds to ever be brought on set.

ETA armourer's name

 

[jjenny]

Thanks! So while two people were bleeding and medics were attending and people were calling 911 the AD and armorer were opening the gun and removing casings. I don't know what normal protocol would be but just from a non professional point of view it seems like handling casings would be a very low priority. At the least it would obscure any fingerprints indicating who had loaded the bullet in the first place. Which is why I'm a bit suspicious. All MOO though.

My guess is that he wanted to know as to what was in the gun. My understanding AD is responsible for safety on the set, and for checking that gun was actually not loaded with live ammunition. He admitted he didn't check the gun carefully before it was being given to Baldwin. So he really didn't know what was in it.

 

[Dotta]

Yep, blanks are the rounds that don't have a bullet, but create noise and flash when fired. Dummy rounds are "fake" rounds that look like live ammunition but are harmless, don't create noise or bang.
So for practicing of the scene, Baldwin's gun was apparently supposed to contain dummy rounds. Dummy rounds had holes on the side, to distinguish from live rounds.
Without completely unloading the gun, it would likely be impossible to check if all rounds had holes in their sides.

We are all becoming real experts on prop guns here!
We might even meet one day
in Hollywood as WS armourers
with Protocols stuck firmly in our minds!

 

[Mo Thuairim]

NBC interview with the DA

At about 1 minute into the above video, the DA says "the hundreds of pieces of ammunition" that LE took from set so far were taken directly from the armourer's cart and she believes the prop truck (rather than from the set as a whole).

The sheriff said that the 500 rounds collected included a mix of suspected live rounds, blanks and dummy bullets.

IMO but this looks really unconscionably bad for the armourer that the live bullets seem to have been among her movie set inventory (rather than being found elsewhere on set not under her immediate charge).

500 Rounds Of Ammunition—Including Suspected Live Rounds—Recovered On ‘Rust’ Set, Sheriff Says

 

[CrimeAway]

From the interview with Larry Zanoff
Anderson Cooper 360
(starts at 8:00, discussion of the terms hot/cold gun starts at 11:00)

"Hot gun" can fire, loaded with BLANKS.

"Cold gun" cannot fire, may/may not be loaded with DUMMIES.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Great minds, @LaborDayRN!

IMO someone's going to give LE the information about live rounds so a smudged fingerprint won't mean much anyway. There's no incentive for anyone on the set to cover for someone or lie IMO.

I completely agree. I imagine people are already talking. I'm sure many who worked on the set are heartbroken over the loss of Halyna.

 

[fred&edna]

Another thing I was thinking about, what if the actor has vision problems? One example would be Oscar winner Dame Judi Dench. Do you simply not hire such an actor based on inability to visually check a prop gun?

 

[CrimeAway]

A visual representation of a blank round, compared to a live round.
Source: What Is a Prop Gun and How Can It Fire Deadly Shots

 

[jjenny]

From the interview with Larry Zanoff
Anderson Cooper 360
(starts at 8:00, discussion of the terms hot/cold gun starts at 11:00)

"Hot gun" can fire, loaded with BLANKS.

"Cold gun" cannot fire, may/may not be loaded with DUMMIES.

Interviewers were asking him questions using wrong terminology, which I found annoying.

 

[jjenny]

A visual representation of a blank round, compared to a live round.
Source: What Is a Prop Gun and How Can It Fire Deadly Shots

And then a dummy round looks like the real deal but can not fire or make noise. Baldwin's gun was supposed to have been loaded with dummy rounds.

 

[jjenny]

At about 1 minute into the above video, the DA says "the hundreds of pieces of ammunition" that LE took from set so far were taken directly from the armourer's cart and she believes the prop truck (rather than from the set as a whole).

The sheriff said that the 500 rounds collected included a mix of suspected live rounds, blanks and dummy bullets.

IMO but this looks really unconscionably bad for the armourer that the live bullets seem to have been among her movie set inventory (rather than being found elsewhere on set not under her immediate charge).

500 Rounds Of Ammunition—Including Suspected Live Rounds—Recovered On ‘Rust’ Set, Sheriff Says

Yep. So if the live rounds were recovered from the cart or the prop gun, how would the armorer not know that live rounds were on the set?

 

[CrimeAway]

And then a dummy round looks like the real deal but can not fire or make noise. Baldwin's gun was supposed to have been loaded with dummy rounds.

It seems that dummy rounds can be colored differently (for non theatrical/film use), or be crimped/indented or have holes or other markings to distinguish them from live rounds (which should NOT be on set). This is just my understanding at this point, and I may be mistaken, so all JMO.

Images of "dummy" rounds:

dummy round - Google Search..