Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[10ofRods]

I'm sure that in addition to grieving and suffering from PTSD, he's likely angry as hell. I would be.

What would the source of your anger be?

 

[Arkay]

I don't know what I think about Baldwin's responsibility or culpability in this tragedy.

My daughter and I went to Paris two years after Princess Diana was killed. While there, we visited the tunnel where she died, and I remember thinking how one or two things done differently would have prevented this from happening. If the paparazzi hadn't chased them, if the chauffeur hadn't been drunk, if the bodyguard insisted she'd worn her seatbelt, and finally if she had put it on herself.

I admit this is a very imperfect analogy but it's what came to mind. Ultimately the safety measures that were in place, which were supposed to be a sober driver and a diligent bodyguard, both failed her. She SHOULD have invested in the two seconds it would've taken to fasten her seatbelt and ensure her own safety.

I know this doesn't work exactly because Diana=Baldwin in this scenario, but Diana also equals Halyna. Alec didn't die. Halyna had no role in ensuring her own safety. My point is really that even though it is the responsibility of others who criminally did not do their jobs, a life can depend on each person, the last in line too, taking the extra second that makes all the difference. In a car or with a gun.

I know Alec was not mandated to check the gun. Not his job. But what a difference if he had; a very, very experienced actor who knows a thing or two. Who knew this production was shoddy.

All in hindsight and MOO.

 

[everybodhi]

You have to drop the rounds to verify, which is a common practice and part of safety protocol. Being too rushed, too focused on the acting, in my opinion, is not a valid excuse for not asking the armorer to open the gun and go through that process to verify for the safety everyone. One last step in the safety protocol chain of events so to speak. I am in no way saying Alec bears all the responsibility or even most of it. I think it’s safe to say though that those of us that are around guns and very familiar with the safety protocols, that this last step, the person handing the fire arm verifying the status of the gun, is one that should never be skipped. It is drilled into us, or has been to me, that no matter how many hands that gun passes through before it gets to you, you still open it up yourself or have somebody else do it and visually verify that what you have been told is correct. Having the armorer/expert on the set does not negate how important it is for anybody handling that gun to be aware of the safety protocols and that they are part of that safety protocol.

It's a matter of life and death.
They are playing with real guns.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

'
Sure - but there's an entire demographic that won't go to see that (and the amount of improper gun use shown in such movies makes young people think that sweeping someone your barrel or not checking to see if there's a round ready to be fired - and many other things, depending on gun...well, some studies say that CGI guns give young people a skewed idea of what a gun can really do.

There is no "but" to gun safety. If there is an actor that is uncomfortable, not capable of following safety protocols you find a plan B. Money, worrying about the dollars spent , is what guided/contributed to all the negligence that led to this death. If money is what is guiding their safety protocol decisions then they need to be in another line of business

 

[Deleted member 158085]

What would the source of your anger be?

Obviously, I think that 1- people were target shooting, probably with this gun. 2- that live rounds were being stored next to blanks. 3- that the armourer clearly did not do her job. 4- that AD handed me a loaded gun and declared it safe.

 

[jjenny]

I imagine her fingerprints were all over that casing and she knew it. IMO

She was told by AD to look as to what was in the gun after the shooting. So it wasn't actually her idea in that instance.

 

[PoppyBear]

Obviously, I think that 1- people were target shooting, probably with this gun.

Others target practicing is exactly why gun safety is so important. Has it been verified target practice was going on? Was AB aware of this going on prior to the negligence by AB? Who used the weapon during target practice?

 

[jjenny]

It hasn't been verified that there was target practice going on. Sheriff only heard it from the media rumors (so nobody said anything to the deputies).

 

[CrimeAway]

I don't know what I think about Baldwin's responsibility or culpability in this tragedy.

My daughter and I went to Paris two years after Princess Diana was killed. While there, we visited the tunnel where she died, and I remember thinking how one or two things done differently would have prevented this from happening. If the paparazzi hadn't chased them, if the chauffeur hadn't been drunk, if the bodyguard insisted she'd worn her seatbelt, and finally if she had put it on herself.

I admit this is a very imperfect analogy but it's what came to mind. Ultimately the safety measures that were in place, which were supposed to be a sober driver and a diligent bodyguard, both failed her. She SHOULD have invested in the two seconds it would've taken to fasten her seatbelt and ensured her own safety.

I know this doesn't work exactly because Diana=Baldwin in this scenario, but Diana also equals Halyna. Alec didn't die. Halyna had no role in ensuring her own safety. My point is really that even though it is the job of others who criminally did not do their jobs, a life can depend on each person, the last in line too, taking the extra second that makes all the difference. In a car or with a gun.

I know Alec was not mandated to check the gun. Not his job. But what a difference if he had, a very very experienced actor who knows a thing or two. Who knew this production was shoddy.

All in hindsight and MOO.

This is why I think it is important in high risk situations to build in redundancies in the safety procedures that are used.

In addition, I think that exploring the implementation of safety processes, such as Crew Resource Management, (from the aviation industry) can benefit other sectors.

In fact, a former airline pilot, whose wife died during a failed intubation for a routine surgery, has used his insight from aviation, to help promote training on "human factors" and safety in anesthesia.

It may be slightly OT, but I do believe that it has relevance to the overarching discussion regarding safety, particularly in potentially dangerous situations which involve multiple people (and of differing rank and/or experience).

 

[Betty P]

‘Rust’ Shooting Death: Executive Producers Disavow Responsibility Over Accident – Deadline

Of course they did. It will be up to a judge to decide how much they may be responsible for.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

It hasn't been verified that there was target practice going on. Sheriff only heard it from the media rumors (so nobody said anything to the deputies).

Then I change my #1 to the fact that there was live ammo on the set at all and that it made its way into the gun. I do believe one of the more probable reasons for it being there was target shooting, tough.

If that was happening, someone will spill it. I don't think many secrets will be kept for long on this set.

 

[branmuffin]

This is a Single Action Only (SA) revolver. The hammer has to be cocked before the trigger is pulled. When the hammer is all the way forward you can pull the trigger all day long and the gun will not fire.

To fire the weapon you take your finger off the trigger and pull the hammer all the way back. This will rotate the cylinder and reset the trigger. The hammer will stay in the cocked position (all the way back) until you squeeze the trigger. When you do squeeze the trigger the hammer will fall forward propelled by a fairly stout spring. Then the hammer hits the primer of the cartridge. The primer makes a miniature explosion inside the cartridge case which ignites the gun powder that is inside the cartridge case. The gun powder then burns and expands very quickly, so quickly that it sounds like an explosion and makes the typical "bang" sound. The rapidly expanding gun powder is what propels the bullet out of the gun and sends it down range.

Most revolvers sold today are Double Action/Single Action. They can be cocked and fired by the Single Action method I mentioned above or by the Double Action method which is simply pulling the trigger.

I don't know if it's allowed to link a YT video but I was watching this video that highlighted the Pietta 1873 Single Action Colt. According to the instructor in the video when putting rounds in the chamber you never put a bullet in the second chamber, you only put five rounds in the cylinder. This is because the firing pin is attached to the hammer and with six rounds it would be resting on the primer. Any jostle or bump of the hammer could cause the gun to discharge even if it was holstered.

The instructor also highlighted the fact that with this model the cylinder doesn't spin after opening the loading gate. You half the hammer which frees the cylinder to spin. Is it possible the AD had no idea how to check the cylinder for rounds after opening the loading gate? Many other revolvers allow the cylinder to spin after opening the loading gate. What if he saw the empty chamber couldn't spin it and assumed the gun was cold? Was the armourer aware of this? I believe it was her father's weapon so I presume she had some rudimentary understanding of how this weapon worked.

I don't know how many actors would be aware of the differences from one revolver to another; but would hope the armourer, the prop master and the AD would be aware of this fact since it is part of their job. And if they didn't know, the armourer would teach them.

I have no proof but I am sure those five hundred rounds of ammo were brought to the set to entertain the crew during downtime on the set. They may have been brought independently to the weapon inventory. How many people would have known that out of three weapons confiscated by LE, only one was a functioning revolver? MOO IMO

 

[Luna20]

Says more ammo was recovered but doesn’t elaborate.

'Rust' movie shooting: Deputies confiscate more weapons, ammunition from set

 

[WillieMac]

Says more ammo was recovered but doesn’t elaborate.

'Rust' movie shooting: Deputies confiscate more weapons, ammunition from set

From the linked article on this post: Am I wrong or is this perhaps the least positive review that could have been offered here as to SZ's contributions on the set of this prior movie that she worked on? And is it unusual for someone that was a Prop Master on this set (Rust) to have only been on this previous set for 5 or 6 days as what was quoted as being only a member of their props deptartment? Was she a temp? Or was she let go early? Or was she only brought in for a short term (fill-in) type of role? Or was it just a really short film? Or isn't or 6 days not unusual?

Zachry recently handled props on another film shot in New Mexico, "Dead for a Dollar."

"Sarah was a member of our props department and worked on our film for approximately five to six days," Carolyn McMaster with Chaos A Film Company told Fox News in a statement.

"She performed all of her assigned tasks in a professional manner and followed all safety protocols."

 

[steeltowngirl]

Others target practicing is exactly why gun safety is so important. Has it been verified target practice was going on? Was AB aware of this going on prior to the negligence by AB? Who used the weapon during target practice?

That is the big question. Who knew there were live rounds on the set, and still allowed the show to go on?

There should never have been live ammo on the set. Period. A live round should NEVER have been inside a gun being used as a movie prop.

Even if AB had personally checked the gun before firing, he too may have missed the live round. The AD missed it. Apparently the armourer missed it. The gun was hot from the moment it entered the room, and it could have gone off at any point, in the hands of anyone who picked it up.

I have yet to see a standard or guideline that explicitly says the gun should be opened and checked by the actor on the set. I’ve seen varying opinions here as to why or why not that might be a good idea.. but it’s not the written standard protocol.

Whoever placed a real bullet in the movie set gun is ultimately responsible. The person whose job to ensure the gun was safe to hand off should be liable, along with those that employed him or her. Everyone who knew things on the Rust set were a disaster waiting to happen, and did nothing, has some culpability.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Might the insurance companies for the movie production refuse coverage of the inevitable lawsuits - if criminal misconduct is charged?

 

[Luna20]

So sad. The son looks so much like his Mother.

Halyna Hutchins's widowed husband pictured collecting his wife's things | Daily Mail Online

 

[LaborDayRN]

‘Rust’ Shooting Death: Executive Producers Disavow Responsibility Over Accident – Deadline

Of course they do. We'll see if that holds water.

 

[Nanceedroo]

That is the big question. Who knew there were live rounds on the set, and still allowed the show to go on?

There should never have been live ammo on the set. Period. A live round should NEVER have been inside a gun being used as a movie prop.

Even if AB had personally checked the gun before firing, he too may have missed the live round. The AD missed it. Apparently the armourer missed it. The gun was hot from the moment it entered the room, and it could have gone off at any point, in the hands of anyone who picked it up

Let us not forget that several crew members had walked off the set due to unsafe conditions, and a walkout was brewing. The armourer HG had problems on a previous set when Nicholas Cage yelled at her for firing a gun near him without warning him. She is incompetent and reckless, a dangerous combination IMO. Annie Oakley she is not.

 

[LaborDayRN]

One person who is handing the gun to the other person in the real world, doesn't have prop master, an armorer, and an assistant director.
Movies are not the real world.
And furthermore, the real world, plenty of gun "accidents' happen.
So the real people aren't always following those procedures. It'd be nice if all gun owners were really careful with their guns.

This wasn't a movie. They were only filming a movie. It WAS the real world. In my opinion basic gun safety precautions and protocols should have been followed in addition to what was required on the set. Again, just my opinion.