Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[Deleted member 39678]

The attorneys went on to state that the armorer herself has never had an accidental discharge of a firearm on set.

They are completely ignoring the fatal accidental discharge because they know that it's the armorer's responsibility to make sure live ammunition is not loaded into a gun. JMO.

"She fought for training, days to maintain weapons and proper time to prepare for gunfire but ultimately was overruled by production and her department."

In this statement she's admitting that the set was unsafe, specifically mentioning weapons and gunfire which where her responsibility. Why didn't she stop providing firearms until the safety levels were met? This statement doesn't help her at all. JMO.

‘Rust’ armorer breaks silence on Alec Baldwin shooting incident, blames producers for unsafe conditions

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I wonder if they used the dummy rounds with the holes in the sides because they are easier to inspect than they would be if they had to remove each round and look at the bottom of it.

You have it backwards. The primers at the bottom of the dummy cartridge are visible while still in the cylinder. You just spin the cylinder and look to see if all of them are punched. That doesn't take very long with a gun like this.

To look for a hole in the side of a case each cartridge would have to be removed one at a time. That takes much longer to do. If the case has a hole in the side and a live primer it's not safe. JMO.

 

[Cryptic]

I don't happen to like A.B., but he is being criticized for not checking the weapon and l submit that he could NOT have been expected to know how to do that. I would have been expected to know how to do it because I am a self-confessed "gun nut."

I hope that helps somebody.

Though "pointed", it is well said, and to the point.

Expecting somebody not familiar with such a weapon to check it and determine whether it was unloaded, or loaded with what would be statistically far more dangerous than trusting the armorer.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

A previous scene using the same prop gun was fitted with dummy cartridges, which look more realistic on film than blank rounds.

However, while commercial dummy cartridges are fitted with bullets but no powder and primer (which initiate the propellant combustion), the prop crew made their own, removing the powder but unknowingly leaving the live primer in the cartridge.

At some point, the revolver was discharged and the bullet was driven into the barrel where the squib load became stuck.

This is how a bullet became stuck in the gun that killed Brandon Lee. When a blank was later fired it launched the stuck bullet at deadly velocity.

Is it possible that HGR made her own dummy rounds to save money and the same thing happened?

JMO.

How did Brandon Lee die? The story behind the tragic death of Bruce Lee's son

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Though "pointed", it is well said, and to the point.

Expecting somebody not familiar with such a weapon to check it and determine whether it was unloaded, or loaded with what would be statistically far more dangerous than trusting the armorer.

If Alec Baldwin had looked at what was loaded in the gun he was handed he would have seen at least one live primer in it when there should have been none.

That's not hard to do IMO.

JMO.

 

[SuziQ]

Of course they do. We'll see if that holds water.

Yeah, they don't get to decide who is responsible.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Though "pointed", it is well said, and to the point.

Expecting somebody not familiar with such a weapon to check it and determine whether it was unloaded, or loaded with what would be statistically far more dangerous than trusting the armorer.

I still hold the belief that nobody should be handling a firearm if they haven’t had basic gun safety education and have an understanding of gun safety protocol which would include the armorer opening the gun up and showing him that it was indeed unloaded. Being on a movie set makes no difference. I have always been taught that a gun is loaded/unloaded in front of the person you are handing the gun to, you never just except somebody’s word. MOO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

According to the search warrant, a woman named Sarah Zachry, who is believed to have served as the prop master on "Rust," removed the guns from the safe in the truck after lunch and handed them to Gutierrez, Gutierrez said.

A key question is whether HGR checked the gun after lunch like she was supposed to before handing it to AD Halls. If it was loaded with dummy rounds when did that happen? Before lunch or after?

'Rust' movie shooting: Deputies confiscate more weapons, ammunition from set

 

[SuziQ]

The statement also asserted that Gutierrez-Reed has never experienced an accidental discharge during a film shoot, but identified two such incidents, one she said was the fault of the prop master, and another caused by a stunt actor after “being informed his gun was hot with blanks.”

Gutierrez-Reed, the statement continued, also attributed any difficulties with her job as armorer to the production itself:. “Hannah was hired on two positions for this film, which made it extremely difficult to focus on her job as an armorer.” Gutierrez-Reed also asserts that she “fought” for gun safety and maintenance training and for “proper time to prepare for gunfire,” requests that were “overruled by production and her department.”

(Snip)

'Rust' Armorer Breaks Her Silence, Blames Producers for 'Unsafe' Set

Say what you want, HG. The Sheriff and the Feds are smarter than you are. They will figure this out.

 

[Gardenista]

‘Rust’ Line Producer Had a History of Labor Violations – The Hollywood Reporter

 

[10ofRods]

Something bothers me. Why did other experienced professionals turn down jobs on this production? Was this production company toxic for some reason? Were the principals (Baldwin) known to be a problem for members of the crafts group?

If the movie industry is sincere on the gun problem, They should only use guns with barrels welded shut and use CGI to insert flash bang effects.

There is plenty of blame to go around, But whoever brought live rounds to the set is on the hottest seat.

There's a rating system in Hollywood for budgets - and this film was in the lowest category. It had no major production companies associated with it and the future distributor of it was not a well known one. Alec had been trying to do a sit com with Kelsey Grammer (I think that was his last bigger project) but it was not picked up by a network, IIRC. He had tried to get a Netflix deal - no go. He's an aging, former A-list star facing a new type of career with roles as grandpas and background characters, and so he wanted to do a movie where he was once again, a star. Probably put up most of the money himself (he's associated in some way with the two production companies that seem to be the larger ones per IMDB).

It's super tempting to party on any movie set. Most of the people working were fairly young, they were supposed to be staying nearby Santa Fe. And then money troubles happened and they were told they had to stay an hour away, in cheap motels, in Albuquerque. They were working very long days (I think they had to show up at 5 am and filming and set management was going until well after dark). It was supposed to be a very fast shoot (28 days). Out in the middle of the sagebrush, no close supervision after hours, people sleeping on set in their cars - and "plinking" for fun.

I agree about using only modified weapons. CGI is expensive, though (less expensive than the liability of killing people with live rounds, though).

 

[Cryptic]

I still hold the belief that nobody should be handling a firearm if they haven’t had basic gun safety education.

I have always been taught that a gun is loaded/unloaded in front of the person you are handing the gun to, you never just except somebody’s word. MOO

I agree that the protocols could have been better (armorer personally checks the weapon in presence of the actor- then hands it to him or her).

But.... the knowledge to check a single action, old west style revolver goes way beyond basic gun safety knowledge.

For reference, decades ago, I was trained in a variety of weapons types via the military and a law enforcement agency. I have a mild interest in target "plinking" and my son has an interest in hunting. To my wife's anger, I currently have a single shot shotgun disassembled in the kitchen and soaking in a solvent.

Yet, I would have no idea how to clear the old style revolver that AB was handed. Likewise, I would only have a general idea of how to clear many WWII rifles. Some movie weapons cant be cleared once loaded (flint lock reproductions).

It is dangerous to try to clear weapons that you are not familiar with. That is why trusting the armorer is the foundation.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I wonder why Halyna Hutchins stayed on a set that was so dangerous? She had a child and husband in Los Angeles. Her husband graduated from Harvard and works for a law firm, so it doesn't seem to be financial stress.

Halyna Hutchins's widowed husband pictured collecting his wife's things | Daily Mail Online

About. — Halyna Hutchins

I imagine because of her work ethic and love of her job.

 

[Cryptic]

If Alec Baldwin had looked at what was loaded in the gun he was handed he would have seen at least one live primer in it when there should have been none.

That's not hard to do IMO.

JMO.

I can accept that.

In that particular situation, seeing a live primer would have stopped everything as the weapon was not supposed to be loaded with anything.

But, had the scene called for blanks, seeing live primers was not going to change anything as both live rounds and blanks have live primers.

In the end, the trust is on the armorer, and not for the actor to be familiar with all weapon types.

 

[Cadillac84]

If Alec Baldwin had looked at what was loaded in the gun he was handed he would have seen at least one live primer in it when there should have been none.

That's not hard to do IMO.

JMO.

Your opinion is wrong. It was a single-action revolver and looking at it will not tell you whether it is loaded or not. You can figure it our, but A.B. is an anti-gun nut and he wouldn't have a clue how to do it. Nor should you expect that he would.
C

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Something bothers me. Why did other experienced professionals turn down jobs on this production? Was this production company toxic for some reason? Were the principals (Baldwin) known to be a problem for members of the crafts group?

If the movie industry is sincere on the gun problem, They should only use guns with barrels welded shut and use CGI to insert flash bang effects.

There is plenty of blame to go around, But whoever brought live rounds to the set is on the hottest seat.

One professional armorer was interested in taking the job. but became concerned about the cost-cutting involved in the production that could impact safety. He had a ‘bad feeling’ and turned down the job. This is a re-post, but the article may answer your question:

“He couldn’t get an answer on the budget for his “kit,” industry jargon for his cache of props needed to stock the set.”…

…
Zoromski said he initially asked for a department of five technicians. He was told that “Rust” was a low-budget production and that plans were to use items from a local prop house. He modified his request to have at least two experienced crew members: one to serve as an assistant prop master and the other as an armorer, or gun wrangler, dedicated to making sure the weapons were safe, oiled and functioning properly.

But the “Rust” producers insisted that only one person was needed to handle both tasks.

“You never have a prop assistant double as the armorer,” Zoromski said. “Those are two really big jobs.”


Veteran prop master turned down 'Rust' film: 'An accident waiting to happen'

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I can accept that.

In that particular situation, seeing a live primer would have stopped everything as the weapon was not supposed to be loaded with anything.

But, had the scene called for blanks, seeing live primers was not going to change anything as both live rounds and blanks have live primers.

In the end, the trust is on the armorer, and not for the actor to be familiar with all weapon types.

The problem with trusting the armorer is that it didn't work in this case. Someone died because of that trust. JMO.

 

[PrairieWind]

The problem with trusting the armorer is that it didn't work in this case. Someone died because of that trust. JMO.

Exactly. You can have all the regulations, or safety protocols, or procedures you want. But if people don't follow them, they are useless.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I agree that the protocols could have been better (armorer personally checks the weapon in presence of the actor- then hands it to him or her).

But.... the knowledge to check a single action, old west style revolver goes way beyond basic gun safety knowledge.

For reference, decades ago, I was trained in a variety of weapons types via the military and a law enforcement agency. I have a mild interest in target "plinking" and my son has an interest in hunting. To my wife's anger, I currently have a single shot shotgun disassembled in the kitchen and soaking in a solvent.

Yet, I would have no idea how to clear the old style revolver that AB was handed. Likewise, I would only have a general idea of how to clear many WWII rifles. Some movie weapons cant be cleared once loaded (flint lock reproductions).

It is dangerous to try to clear weapons that you are not familiar with. That is why trusting the armorer is the foundation.

For the most part, our opinions on AB’s culpability, parallel our basic knowledge of gun safety. IMO

I learned basic gun safety at a young age. Probably because I grew up in south Louisiana where everyone hunts and guns are common place. Even though my knowledge of guns might not involve ‘old west style revolvers’, I would know enough not to take aim at anyone (even in a movie setting) without actually verifying it for myself, with the help of a professional. For that matter, I can’t imagine allowing someone to take aim in my direction without verifying for myself.

In my opinion that is what basic gun safety knowledge is. I echo others that say a gun safety course should be give to actors that handle firearms. Actors have to learn lines, learn to ride horses, among other things that go with their roles. It is not a stretch for them to learn basic firearm safety.

 

[CrimeAway]

I thought that on the model of revolver in question, it was not possible to easily spin the cylinder to check for bullets?