Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

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Terminology???
If Halls visually saw three rounds in the cylinder, that would be a "hot" gun. He specifically stated that the gun was "cold", meaning an empty gun.
There is a problem there.
@mickey2942
Your post raised a good point about his understanding & usage of hot vs cold terminology.

Now just jumping off your post: W ^ ex. and discussion on these threads, is it possible some ppl on the set had different understanding/interps of this movie term? Could be confusing. my2ct.
 
I think on a film set, a gun loaded with dummies is 'cold' as they cannot fire.

I read this a few days ago:

According to an earlier affidavit filed by the Sheriff’s Office, Halls allegedly yelled “cold gun,” meaning the weapon was not loaded, as he was handing it to Baldwin. But the crew member who spoke to The Times remembers Gutierrez Reed as being the one to have pronounced the gun “cold.” A gun loaded with dummy rounds would be considered “cold” on a film set.

Sheriff: Lead bullet fatally struck 'Rust' cinematographer; 500 rounds of ammo recovered on set

Okay - well, we can agree to disagree. Blanks have killed people and in film school, people are taught to call ANY loaded gun "hot." Paper? Loaded. Bird seed? Loaded. Cap gun? Loaded.

On-set deaths from prop guns are rare — but not unheard of

I guess I am lucky to have only been on sets that were very safe. The college where I teach leases itself out as a set to many productions, have watched many and my students are often behind-the-camera people. Lots of friends in the industry. Lived near a fake western town as a kid, town itself was a set for many a movie (still is).

So some of you believe a gun loaded with blanks is safe enough to use in any movie scene and is therefore "cold." Fortunately, I am betting that Mr. Hall did not in fact think there were blanks (or anything) in that gun he handed to Mr. Baldwin (hence "COLD GUN" so that people could remain in places where possible gasses and shrapnel from blanks would not harm them).

So - if there are BB's inside (as with some blanks), that's still a "Cold Gun"....SMH here. Keep in mind that several armourers have said that BB's are often inside "blanks." (Which is why they are called "hot" and why they must be treated precisely as any other gun should be treated.

I suppose next we can question whether the Sheriff (who said there were "500 rounds of ammunition" on set) knows the difference - he says it will take the FBI lab to ascertain that. In the meantime, I'll just leave this here:

"The AD shouted “cold gun,” a signal understood to those on set to mean the gun did not contain ammunition."

This particular gun contained two types of ammunition...

Note that the Sheriff included anything that could be put into a gun as "ammunition" (which is the only common sense thing to do). He says they have to figure out which was live, which might have been blanks, and which were dummies. Until that's done, it's ammunition to me. And the signal "Cold Gun" is commonly held to mean exactly what that sentence above says - regardless of how the clickbait headlines state it.

Moments Before ‘Rust’ Shooting, Alec Baldwin Was Told His Gun Did Not Contain Live Rounds, Police Say

And here's an article on wound morphology...from blanks:

Wound morphology in contact shots from blank cartridge handguns: a study on composite models - PubMed.

So I guess if there are blanks inside and the AD says "cold gun" but the scene calls for a close up shooting, then everything is supposed to fine. Starter pistols have killed people - albeit always close up (but take a look at the pictures of "Rust" where they were rehearsing - they were close up - and even if it had been a blank, Halyna could have lost an eye or needed plastic surgery...
 
If Halls visually saw three rounds in the cylinder, that would be a "hot" gun. He specifically stated that the gun was "cold", meaning an empty gun.

There is a problem there.

Yeah, I keep saying that, but a lot of people want to argue that a gun loaded with blanks is a "cold gun." That is not my. experience, it's a terrible confusion of terms and blanks ought not to be fired from 4-5 feet away at a camera person, either. Period, full stop.

You are absolutely right. The only "cold gun" is an empty gun and that's what the term has meant since forever.
 
Terminology???
@mickey2942
Your post raised a good point about his understanding & usage of hot vs cold terminology.

Now just jumping off your post: W ^ ex. and discussion on these threads, is it possible some ppl on the set had different understanding/interps of this movie term? Could be confusing. my2ct.

Sure - obviously, someone was confused (the assistant director). But that's why there are books and training on this topic. I bet that the Old Armourer who gave HGR her start knew the difference.

How Can a Gun Loaded With Blanks Still Be Deadly?

Nothing but hot air?-On the molecular ballistic analysis of backspatter generated by and the hazard potential of blank guns - PubMed

(How and why blanks can kill or injure...and injury from a "prop gun" is not a good thing either...)
 
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Yeah, I keep saying that, but a lot of people want to argue that a gun loaded with blanks is a "cold gun." That is not my. experience, it's a terrible confusion of terms and blanks ought not to be fired from 4-5 feet away at a camera person, either. Period, full stop.

You are absolutely right. The only "cold gun" is an empty gun and that's what the term has meant since forever.
In my opinion the film industry should get rid of the hot and cold terminology and treat all real guns as being hot at all times. That would mean never point one at a person for any reason. JMO.
 
In my opinion the film industry should get rid of the hot and cold terminology and treat all real guns as being hot at all times. That would mean never point one at a person for any reason. JMO.

That's actually in the Propmaster Union's Protocol (and it's in the Equity Actor's statements on safety, IIRC, as well).

The propmaster in this case was not a union member. But the overall job of a director is supposed to include knowing union rules and following them (and it sounds like some sort of rounds had been fired by a supposedly "cold" gun about a week before.

I totally agree that they should get rid of the terminology and treat all weapons as capable of killing, maiming or injuring. Hollywood has learned to deal creatively. with much more difficult problems.
 
snipped
Dummies are inert, they don't make noise, and don't fire a projectile.
So gun loaded with dummies is also considered a cold gun. Basically dummies are fake ammunition that resemble live ammo but are harmless (don't fire, don't make nose, can't injure anyone). The problem is that they look similar to live ammo, so if person loading the gun isn't careful, and dummies and live ammo are mixed together, a tragedy can take place.
What would be the purpose of using a dummy round during the unfilmed rehearsal?
 
The day Alec Baldwin shot Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza

... Before Hutchins was killed, crew members say, there were three accidental discharges of weapons on set. Baldwin’s stunt double had accidentally fired a blank after being told that his gun was “cold.” A young woman from the props department “actually shot herself in the foot,” Luper said, adding that the round was a blank. ...

WTF. Another injury?! And who was this young woman, prop master Sarah Zachry? And what was the 3rd discharge? After Halyna’s death, no wonder HGR skipped out and lawyered up.

JMO
 
That's actually in the Propmaster Union's Protocol (and it's in the Equity Actor's statements on safety, IIRC, as well).

The propmaster in this case was not a union member. But the overall job of a director is supposed to include knowing union rules and following them (and it sounds like some sort of rounds had been fired by a supposedly "cold" gun about a week before.

I totally agree that they should get rid of the terminology and treat all weapons as capable of killing, maiming or injuring. Hollywood has learned to deal creatively. with much more difficult problems.
Yes. This set had unintentional firing of blanks that could do serious harm to actors and crew members hearing.

If a production wants to use any kind of blank firing gun they need to set up all safety protocols like hearing protection before the guns are handed out by the armorer.

Or use rubber or other non firing replicas and post production effects. JMO.

JMO.
 
Yeah, I keep saying that, but a lot of people want to argue that a gun loaded with blanks is a "cold gun." That is not my. experience, it's a terrible confusion of terms and blanks ought not to be fired from 4-5 feet away at a camera person, either. Period, full stop.

You are absolutely right. The only "cold gun" is an empty gun and that's what the term has meant since forever.
Blanks and dummies are not the same thing. Gun loaded with blanks is a hot gun. Gun loaded with dummies is a cold gun.
 
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